2022/23 VC Owner thread

[GrumpyDad]

When you burnt without the cat in did you flip the bypass damper?
So much for warm temps here I've been burning solid for almost a week. I have had white smoke from the chimney even with the cat at 1400 after hot reloads and very dry small splits, kind of surprised me. smoke kept up for an hour or so.
The weather has seen large swings in temps. From Christmas to the end of February the swing was 0-80 degrees! Last night was high teens to 20 and we'll be back to 70's this week.

60 degree swing here within a week. Which isn't too abnormal ...I've seen 60 degree swings in less than 2 days.
What this year brought was a large amount of high winds. There are many dead standing pines near me that have laid down from near their base. Usually that crack in half. Many uprooted pines as well.
Im eyeing up my neighbors hemlock, when that thing goes it will rip up their driveway and the tip of the tree will come within 10' of my house. It's a monster. Probably the largest tree Ive seen in person ever.

 

[gthomas785]

I left the front door slightly cracked from cold start.

I've done this more than a few times.

 

[GrumpyDad]

I've done this more than a few times.

I always put the handle on the ledge when the door is cracked and back in the holder when the door is closed, so I know. It was sitting there on the ledge, yet I was cOnFuSeD as to why I was producing SO much heat from this stove so quickly.
Normally once I kick over to secondary, I have to adjust my air control up a notch or two to avoid the temps to drop too much there and to keep the stove cranking out +475 degree heat. After awhile though I usually set this to 4th from the highest and let it cruise the remainder of the time, unless it's too hot or too cold in the room but this is usually my cruise control settings.
Imagine my surprise when I was running through secondary and my air control was at the lowest and the flames were still VERY active.

needless to say I blew through that load fairly quickly.

OH EDIT: When I started the stove I couldnt figure out why I had smoke coming in for the first minute or so. I closed the doors and it was still coming through. I had my damper closed

I was hitting home runs that day.

 

[gthomas785]

I always put the handle on the ledge when the door is cracked and back in the holder when the door is closed

Heck, I've got my handle permanently attached so it's pretty obvious when it's sitting at like a 30 degree angle. And yet I still forget it sometimes. It's just part of being human I guess. You do gradually learn all the things to check when the stove is misbehaving but sometimes it's too easy to overlook the simple stuff.

 

[arnermd]

When you burnt without the cat in did you flip the bypass damper?
So much for warm temps here I've been burning solid for almost a week. I have had white smoke from the chimney even with the cat at 1400 after hot reloads and very dry small splits, kind of surprised me. smoke kept up for an hour or so.
The weather has seen large swings in temps. From Christmas to the end of February the swing was 0-80 degrees! Last night was high teens to 20 and we'll be back to 70's this week.

The "white smoke" may not be smoke.... If it is white it is probably water vapor. I see it quite frequently early/ mid run with cat >1200. Sometimes hard to tell depending on conditions, easier with a clear blue sky.

I suspect it goes away after a while because the stack heats up throughout a run and the water vapor comes out the top superheated and thus you can't see it.

For those of you thinking "but my wood is really dry".... all hydrocarbon combustion processes create water vapor. So even if your wood was 0% MC you still have some water vapor in the exhaust stream....

 

[GrumpyDad]

The "white smoke" may not be smoke.... If it is white it is probably water vapor. I see it quite frequently early/ mid run with cat >1200. Sometimes hard to tell depending on conditions, easier with a clear blue sky.

I suspect it goes away after a while because the stack heats up throughout a run and the water vapor comes out the top superheated and thus you can't see it.

For those of you thinking "but my wood is really dry".... all hydrocarbon combustion processes create water vapor. So even if your wood was 0% MC you still have some water vapor in the exhaust stream....

I have been getting a tiny bit upset that there is SO much smoke coming out of my stack early into a reload. It is more than my fireplace chimney sees in a month with regular use. Then I kick over to secondary and it's still fairly smoky for a good while. I just stopped thinking about it. Eventually (not sure when) when I go out and look up all I see are heat waves. And the burn lasts quite awhile afterwards so.
Im also not running with the cat in. I dont know why. I keep meaning to put it in but want to save for when it's not really that cold out but I need the heat and need the stove to run really low/slow. After seeing people scorch their cat, and knowing the lead time and costs, I guess Im being frugal but might be offsetting with a less efficient burn. Although the manual shows it's actually more efficient to burn without the cat, which I can't figure out. Efficient meaning, the amount of wood im burning from moment to moment.

 

[arnermd]

I have been getting a tiny bit upset that there is SO much smoke coming out of my stack early into a reload. It is more than my fireplace chimney sees in a month with regular use. Then I kick over to secondary and it's still fairly smoky for a good while. I just stopped thinking about it. Eventually (not sure when) when I go out and look up all I see are heat waves. And the burn lasts quite awhile afterwards so.
Im also not running with the cat in. I dont know why. I keep meaning to put it in but want to save for when it's not really that cold out but I need the heat and need the stove to run really low/slow. After seeing people scorch their cat, and knowing the lead time and costs, I guess Im being frugal but might be offsetting with a less efficient burn. Although the manual shows it's actually more efficient to burn without the cat, which I can't figure out. Efficient meaning, the amount of wood im burning from moment to moment.

• I have had episodes where I was getting what seemed like a lot of smoke too, even hours into a burn with cat > 1200.... not sure why.
• I always run with my cat in, unless it is broken..... Not sure why you are having lead time issues, I generally have mine in less than a week and at $130 - 150 every two years it does not bother me all that much.
• I do not see how the stove could be more efficient without a cat, does not make sense to me. What does the manual say that leads you to think that?
• My definition of efficiency would be: heat to the house / wood in.

 

[GrumpyDad]

• I have had episodes where I was getting what seemed like a lot of smoke too, even hours into a burn with cat > 1200.... not sure why.
• I always run with my cat in, unless it is broken..... Not sure why you are having lead time issues, I generally have mine in less than a week and at $130 - 150 every two years it does not bother me all that much.
• I do not see how the stove could be more efficient without a cat, does not make sense to me. What does the manual say that leads you to think that?
• My definition of efficiency would be: heat to the house / wood in.

Dealers here all quoting 2-3 months to get the cat, that was awhile ago though. I just dont want to deal with the hassle I guess..

From the owners manual
There was discussion on here saying it is easier to operate with a larger range of ability and it burns more efficiently, according to this chart operating with the cat in produces more emissions, has a lower efficiency high heating value, and lower BTU output. Basically, it's like sticking a brillo pad in there, probably would have the same effect . That's if Im reading this right....probably not.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

When you burnt without the cat in did you flip the bypass damper?
So much for warm temps here I've been burning solid for almost a week. I have had white smoke from the chimney even with the cat at 1400 after hot reloads and very dry small splits, kind of surprised me. smoke kept up for an hour or so.
The weather has seen large swings in temps. From Christmas to the end of February the swing was 0-80 degrees! Last night was high teens to 20 and we'll be back to 70's this week.

So I do both.. depending on how long the burn will be.. if its a quick fire to get the house up only a couple degrees ill burn with the bypass open not load alot and turn the air back some as not to overheat the stove.. As with the othere day, yes the bypass was closed during the burn, the stack was clear as can be, Id say the air was roughly 3/4s.. Ill probably pull the cat as its time to clean the stove, the glass is ashey right now.. been a few weeks

 

[arnermd]

Dealers here all quoting 2-3 months to get the cat, that was awhile ago though. I just dont want to deal with the hassle I guess..

From the owners manual
There was discussion on here saying it is easier to operate with a larger range of ability and it burns more efficiently, according to this chart operating with the cat in produces more emissions, has a lower efficiency high heating value, and lower BTU output. Basically, it's like sticking a brillo pad in there, probably would have the same effect . That's if Im reading this right....probably not.
View attachment 311275

Hmmm interesting.....

• I can't explain why emissions are higher with a cat..... either it is a typo or I do not understand the test very well, more likely the latter.
• Emissions are higher with the cat in, not sure why you think otherwise. Both lower and higher heating value eff is better with the cat installed.
• The heat output range makes sense I think.
  • With no cat installed some heat is going up the chimney as unburned fuel, thus useable heat output is less. What they don't say here is your chimney is building creosote at this low burn rate with no cat.....
  • I am guessing with the cat you get an extra 2270 BTUs (14520 - 12250) from the catalytic burn....
  • On the high end you can get more air through the stove without the cat (less pressure drop / restriction) so you can get more heat out, but the burn will be shorter.....
• I find it interesting it says "EPA BTU Output", I suspect that is a typo and should read "EPA BTU/hour Output"

 

[arnermd]

Used a match for the first time since December last night..... Shoulder season is annoying.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Hmmm interesting.....

• I can't explain why emissions are higher with a cat..... either it is a typo or I do not understand the test very well, more likely the latter.
• Emissions are higher with the cat in, not sure why you think otherwise. Both lower and higher heating value eff is better with the cat installed.
• The heat output range makes sense I think.
  • With no cat installed some heat is going up the chimney as unburned fuel, thus useable heat output is less. What they don't say here is your chimney is building creosote at this low burn rate with no cat.....
  • I am guessing with the cat you get an extra 2270 BTUs (14520 - 12250) from the catalytic burn....
  • On the high end you can get more air through the stove without the cat (less pressure drop / restriction) so you can get more heat out, but the burn will be shorter.....
• I find it interesting it says "EPA BTU Output", I suspect that is a typo and should read "EPA BTU/hour Output"

yea dunno, that entire chart confused me.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Used a match for the first time since December last night..... Shoulder season is annoying.

My wife bought these little firestarters wrapped in plastic that are SOAKED in some sort of oil or something that smells like a butane lighter. You just get near them with a match and they light. Kinda scary honestly, I dont need something like that around the house so I pitched them. I have no problem starting a fire with the right setup and a single match, but it is very nice to just plunk a product like super cedar on top of a kindling stack with a couple of pieces above, light and go.
But dont leave your door open through almost the entire burn like I did...

 

[arnermd]

My wife bought these little firestarters wrapped in plastic that are SOAKED in some sort of oil or something that smells like a butane lighter. You just get near them with a match and they light. Kinda scary honestly, I dont need something like that around the house so I pitched them. I have no problem starting a fire with the right setup and a single match, but it is very nice to just plunk a product like super cedar on top of a kindling stack with a couple of pieces above, light and go.
But dont leave your door open through almost the entire burn like I did...

I never use those for fear of contaminating my catalyst. I use white birch bark exclusively. Lights off real nice and its free in the woods....

 

[gthomas785]

I never use those for fear of contaminating my catalyst.

The super cedars at least are perfectly safe for catalyst. It's just cedar shavings and candle wax. I use them from time to time when I'm out of kindling and too lazy to make more.

 

[GrumpyDad]

The super cedars at least are perfectly safe for catalyst. It's just cedar shavings and candle wax. I use them from time to time when I'm out of kindling and too lazy to make more.

I use a cheap version of those , the kind you get at a box store. I am too lazy now. I grab a arm full of edge pieces, literally toss it in my stove, put my starter in there, light it, then lay two more pieces over the starter and walk away for 15 minutes

 

[U235]

The super cedars at least are perfectly safe for catalyst. It's just cedar shavings and candle wax. I use them from time to time when I'm out of kindling and too lazy to make more.

I too looked at the super cedars but opted for the Meeco Sure Start squares. I’m currently a ‘nights and weekends’ only stove operator so I do a lot of cold starts (93 this season, my first). I bust a split or two down to 1-2” strips, and stack the strips around the starter square. By the time the strips have coaled enough to add more wood/light the cat, the fire starter is long gone. Hopeful I’m not poisoning my catalyst (as wax is forbidden in the manual), but I can’t start 100 fires with newspaper.

Yes. I agree - I should burn 24/7.

 

[gthomas785]

I too looked at the super cedars but opted for the Meeco Sure Start squares. I’m currently a ‘nights and weekends’ only stove operator so I do a lot of cold starts (93 this season, my first). I bust a split or two down to 1-2” strips, and stack the strips around the starter square. By the time the strips have coaled enough to add more wood/light the cat, the fire starter is long gone. Hopeful I’m not poisoning my catalyst (as wax is forbidden in the manual), but I can’t start 100 fires with newspaper.

Yes. I agree - I should burn 24/7.

View attachment 311338

Yeah I know the manual says that. The reality is that wax is not the issue, fire starter logs like duraflame are generally really bad because they contain other stuff (metals) that can poison the catalyst. Same with the colored ink on newspaper. The pure paraffin wax that is used in super cedars will be 100% combusted and leave no residue by the time the catalyst reaches operating temp.

Then there's another consideration. I don't know how your stove behaves with the bypass open but I'm pretty sure my stove has 0% exhaust passing through the catalyst while bypassed. The secondary air just backfeeds into the firebox and I do not see any temp rise on the catalyst until I shut the bypass. Therefore whatever I'm burning during startup has very little chance of passing through the catalyst anyway so I don't worry about it.

 

[U235]

Yeah I know the manual says that. The reality is that wax is not the issue, fire starter logs are generally really bad because they contain other stuff (metals) that can poison the catalyst. Same with the colored ink on newspaper. The pure paraffin wax that is used in super cedars will be 100% combusted and leave no residue by the time the catalyst reaches operating temp.

Then there's another consideration. I don't know how your stove behaves with the bypass open but I'm pretty sure my stove has 0% exhaust passing through the catalyst while bypassed. The secondary air just backfeeds into the firebox and I do not see any temp rise on the catalyst until I shut the bypass. Therefore whatever I'm burning during startup has very little chance of passing through the catalyst anyway so I don't worry about

With bypass open, my Auber catalyst probe stays below 150 - fully agree that all the exhaust (and any possible wax issues) is completely missing the catalyst.

Maybe the manual meant: Do not burn firestarters … with the bypass closed.

That’s the interpretation I’m going with.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

We just collect fallen branches.. I have 1 tree that supplies enough branches for cold starting for the entire burning season.. paperbark Burch.. put them in the stove.. 5 seconds with the torch.. and off and running we go..

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Right now Im burning without the cat.. this is what the stoves doing.. no smoke out of the chimney

 

[arnermd]

We just collect fallen branches.. I have 1 tree that supplies enough branches for cold starting for the entire burning season.. paperbark Burch.. put them in the stove.. 5 seconds with the torch.. and off and running we go..

White birch bark..... best fire starter for me.... and free. I always pick up and save shavings after splitting, makes great kindling.

 

[arnermd]

Right now Im burning without the cat.. this is what the stoves doing.. no smoke out of the chimney

Was that peak cat temp? Or maybe you don't know because you don't stare at your stove all day like I do....

 

[gthomas785]

White birch bark..... best fire starter for me.... and free. I always pick up and save shavings after splitting, makes great kindling.

I save all the splitter trash but with 2 stoves I guess I use too much, I always run out. I also save woodworking scraps and small sticks from the yard but somehow I'm still scrounging for kindling..
I guess I could be proactive and split some, but I'd rather just put my feet up by the fire..

 

[arnermd]

I save all the splitter trash but with 2 stoves I guess I use too much, I always run out. I also save woodworking scraps and small sticks from the yard but somehow I'm still scrounging for kindling..
I guess I could be proactive and split some, but I'd rather just put my feet up by the fire..

Maybe you are starting to many fires..... gotta keep em rolling.