NICE. Those are some big splits. At least in my book. I try to keep mine about the size of the two that you have on top of the others, and I usually get maybe 8-9 pieces inside my little dauntless?
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2022/23 VC Owner thread
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We need a show your load thread
Not going to lie, I've given up on getting the perfect burn. I just started doing what the wife is doing and not worrying about it. On a cold start I get a good coal base before I even think about closing the damper. I usually burn 2-3 splits down to coals. Then I reload, let everything catch(wait for STT to be around 500) and close the damper. At this point every time the wood runs out I reload. It doesn't matter if the CAT is still 700 I reload. If it is a lower coal bed i push coals to the back if it is deep I just even them out. I toss 3-4 splits on (remember Intrepid 1.3ft firebox) and close the damper right away. Assuming I have a good coal bed I don't touch the air. Within a minute or two everything lights up and I walk away. The CAT temps will climb to the low 900's and STT will creep up to 650 or so. Now if on reload I put a split too close to the back and I get a strong jet engine noise the CAT temp will shoot up to 1400 or 1500 really quickly. I just open the griddle and move the wood a little farther away from the smoke entrance and then it will cool down to 900 or so. Typically after a day of burning my coals are about 3/4 of the way to the top of the andirons.
The main thing that I have learned is to just trust the stove. I know that there are some real issues with stoves going nuclear, but as long as I'm not hearing that jet engine noise from 20+ feet away I just let it go and run itself. Sure I'm not getting the CAT temps that you guys are, but in theory the CAT for me is a tertiary burn. Do I smell smoke outside occasionally? Sure do, but that could be my neighbors who have an old smoke dragon and billow smoke outside constantly.
I am a couple weeks behind on my monthly chimney sweeping schedule. With any luck I'll get to it this weekend. Although with the higher CAT temps lately (previously I was running in the mid 500's) I imagine there will be less to clean up.
The main thing that I have learned is to just trust the stove. I know that there are some real issues with stoves going nuclear, but as long as I'm not hearing that jet engine noise from 20+ feet away I just let it go and run itself. Sure I'm not getting the CAT temps that you guys are, but in theory the CAT for me is a tertiary burn. Do I smell smoke outside occasionally? Sure do, but that could be my neighbors who have an old smoke dragon and billow smoke outside constantly.
I am a couple weeks behind on my monthly chimney sweeping schedule. With any luck I'll get to it this weekend. Although with the higher CAT temps lately (previously I was running in the mid 500's) I imagine there will be less to clean up.
yea that's kinda my mindset.
I gave up 'trying' and it just worked so much better.
A few hours into last night's burn, cat engaged and air all the way back, my griddle temp was hitting 650.
Does that suggest a leak or air damper linkage issue?
Had been sitting at 425 for an hour previously.
Temps were increasing as the night went on from mid 30's to high 40's outside so it's not like draft would be increasing.
Does that suggest a leak or air damper linkage issue?
Had been sitting at 425 for an hour previously.
Temps were increasing as the night went on from mid 30's to high 40's outside so it's not like draft would be increasing.
Not necessarily, as you can see from all the graphs posted it's pretty normal for the stove temp to climb and then fall as the burn progresses. Depending on how much wood you put in, wood species, the starting temperature, and several other factors the peak temperature can vary a lot. I don't think 650 is uncommon.
Ive never hit that hit a temp with a full load at 3 to 4 notches from the lowest setting. Could be you have a strong draft, or you may have a leak. Easiest way to find out is to put a dollar bill into every area like doors, ash pan etc and close it tight, then try to pull out the dollar. If you can pull it out easy, then you need to tighten things up or replace gaskets. You shouldnt just try one area of a door either. I tested every inch starting with the top and going toward the bottom using multiple dollars to do this.
Thank you. I'll check tonight. A little concerning as the stove is only a couple weeks old.
6" liner up through masonry chimney, maybe 25' or so.
Also my air control is continuous, would be nice to have notches for repeatability.
Really? I hit 650 all the time with my air open about 10% on my Intrepid with only 3 or so splits in the firebox. No notches on my stove, but just barley above closed all the way.
Hmm Im going to have to see what a few splits of pine would do on mine with that setting. Do you have secondary closed at that time?
EDIT: Question for everyone in here. When you shut your air down on a cold stove, how much flap is still left open or is it completely closed? What about when your stove is operating for a few hours, if you shut down all the way what does it look like? I would really be curious to compare notes on this one, as this may be a smoking gun for some of us that struggle(d) with these stoves. Im talking about the OAK and the flap in there.
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Not really joking about a wood fired AC. I understand the principle of it and have used RV refrigerators powered by propane.
behind your stove if you have access to it, toward the floor in the center you will see a round hole. That's where the majority of the air comes in. When you move the air control you should see a little flap in there move up or down. If you had an outside air tube connected to this (because your house is very air tight) then dont bother taking that apart to look at that flap. No sense messing with something that works just fine.
I have the damper closed. This usually happens about 2/3 the way through the load. You can just walk by and feel that its way hot. Doesn't bother me. I've learned to embrace it and love the additional heat I get from it. Hell if I could run 650 STT all the time I would. Then again my stove is way too small for the area so I'll take everything I can get out of it.
I'll see if I can check the flap. my stove has the back on it, but I'll give it a look next time its hot.
This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy.....
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- Key damper was fully closed for this entire run. Open area is really small in this config.
- Pretty full load on a heavy bed of coals, all oak 15%MC (no ash)
- Immeadiately engaged the cat, 50% air, temps popped up to 950 cut air back to 20%
- Cat dipped a tiny bit, recovered cut air back to 0%
- Stove was cruising at 1000 for an hour, looking real nice.... then not.
- Cat broke 1500 then 1600 and hung there for an hour. It was painful for me not to take action.....
- Just to add insult to injury it spike again later in the burn.....
- My draft is not the problem.... I measured it several times through the burn it was 0.05 to 0.07 iwc
- Draft may still be a contributing factor, but not the primary cause.
- My manual has no spec for draft but the Encore 2040 manual indicated proper draft is .03 - 0.065 iwc. I was in that range most of the time.
- Today was on the warmer side so that helped to reduce draft as well.
- Not once did it backpuff....
- Checked for smoke several times... looked very clean, either whspy steam or nothing at all.
- This woudl be a beatful burn if it occured 300 deg lower.....
- Pretty sure at 1550 - 1600 I took some life off my refractory and cat.....
- This is why I fiddle with my stove..... if I do not, the temps hang there for hours.
- The initial burn was reallysmokey in the firebox (Icould see smoke rolling around through the glass)
- Leave the air open 10-20% and see if I can get more primary burn.
- Try a full load of ash.....
Quite the roller coaster ride.
do you think it is adequate to say, that maybe these stoves are all defective at this point? I mean, I KNOW my cat gets up there from time to time, I just stopped looking at it. Im also not burning with just oak, as you know, Im using alot of cherry etc. Im sure your glass looks clean though?
. My flue has been cooler, and my glass cleaner since my new method, but honestly I rarely run the stove or try to with air at 30% or lower. Have you ever tried to run it a bit more open to see what would happen? The opposite of what you think you should do?This all sounds really great to me.... I have dreams like you described. 1400-1500 once in a while for short periods really would not concern me at all.....
I think you are there, enjoy the view! I see nothing that would concern me.
Inconel and Hastelloy are nonmagnetic (as I recall).... 316 SS is pretty much nonmagnetic too. 304 is slightly magnetic....@arnermd - I think inconel and hastelloy are non-magnetic. (If that helps) I did some searching but could not find creep curves for zero stress.
Not sure how to explain your cat warping. Hopefully the metal one arrives soon and runs cooler.
I never think of steels as being subject to creep.... Plastics yes.... steel? That would be a new one for me.... Oh I see... your point was no stress = zero creep.... yep that's true, regardless of material.
Cat warps because it gets really hot and soft, thermal stress / gravity drives it the only way it can move. Lower back corner moves back, the only corner that is unsupported by refractory....
My rebuild instructions for Defiant 1975 say set the flapper so it is just closed with lever all the way back. So that's what I do.....
For the encore it is a rectangular hole.
I check mine by setting air all the way back, then I lay down and pull on the cable that runs through the flapper. If it moves I can see / feel it and adjust it if needed.
Lots of questions:Quite the roller coaster ride.
do you think it is adequate to say, that maybe these stoves are all defective at this point? I mean, I KNOW my cat gets up there from time to time, I just stopped looking at it. Im also not burning with just oak, as you know, Im using alot of cherry etc. Im sure your glass looks clean though?
- I can not say that all stoves are defective, I would never make that claim without more data. I only know my stove / setup. Maybe something wrong with my stove in particular, but I do not think so, after 2 rebuilds.
- Time to time at 1600 would be fine with me, as you can see from my data mine goes there nearly every time on full load of dry oak. If I do not take action it stays there......
- Glass is not clean at all.... whenever I burn with primary air down like this it gets really smoked up.
- I have run this stove everyway you can imagine..... Before this season I usually ran it at at 50% primary air. It would spike then too.... But I am going to retry tonight with more primary air, key damper closed.
In my opinion: It is not counter intuitive to expect higher cat temps with less air, it really depends on conditions. I have found less primary air frequently generates more smoke / fuel for the cat. So on a fresh load I can see how closing down air could actually make cat temps go up. Ideally the amount of smoke does not overwhelm the cat.
The next logical question would be if lower = increased cat temps then running with more air should reduce cat temps.... and it does under certain conditions for some period of time. Problem is... over time, more air promotes faster primary burn and causes the load to off gas faster making more fuel and heat for the cat.
The trick here is to have the right balance of primary burn to raise enough heat and smoke such that it does not overwhelm the cat. It is a balancing act and I have some empathy for stove designers trying to make a robust design amid a wide range of operating conditions.....
Many times I have thought the problem with my stove is it is not getting enough secondary air.... but that is hard to prove.....
I’ve tried the smaller split route and I cant keep it under control. that’s a great idea. Would be helpful to see the different types of wood being loaded.NICE. Those are some big splits. At least in my book. I try to keep mine about the size of the two that you have on top of the others, and I usually get maybe 8-9 pieces inside my little dauntless?
We need a show your load thread
It just makes sense that the glass gets soot and turns black if you slow burn the stove overnight. Mine is basically blacked out in the morning about 11 hours or so after a full load and slow burn. I turn the air wide open when I get up and let the coals burn and that clears up the glass. What ever that didn't clear up a couple of splits and a hot burn and the glass is clean.
I have many hours invested on how my Air Flap works. Mostly because it rarely works! It sticks often, I have to tap it with a screwdriver or wiggle the handle to free it up. Going on #3 service call. On a cold stove my flap never closes all the way unless I flick the handle downward quickly. On a hot Stove its surprising that the flap is already 90 percent closed with lever fully open due to the bi metallic spring. Im certain this is by design. We don’t have as much control as we think with the air lever, moving it slightly on a hot stove pretty much closes it, any more and we are just moving slack in the cable not the flap. Even on a Hot stove mine does not close fully unless I flick handle quickly. Sometimes mine sticks wide open from the get go, moving the handle does nothing! This causes an over fire quick. My stove has been apart 3 times, the cable placement and how it works is very vulnerable to failure . Monitor your flap, It does not work as one would think.
I did not really understand the mechanism until I rebuilt my stove. Once I saw it I thought it was pretty clever how they combined the cable with a looped lever and hinge to get the action and no sliding along the cable that could wear through.
I have noticed mine on occasion will hang up the very last little bit, if I pull the cable I can see and hear it pop full closed. But it is not much....
A couple years ago I thought maybe my bimetal was failed, I found the pocket clip from a mechanical pencil fits perfectly over the screw that clamps the cable. I attached it as a pointer so I could just ho much movement there was rom hot to cold. It is quite a bit, more than I expected, as you said.
Sticking wide open is not good..... never had that happen.
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