2022/23 VC Owner thread

[Lorde]

There are many here that can run the stove properly with out all of this.. you may be over complicating over thinking it.. most including myself are using a cat prob 1 magnetic on the griddle and 1 magnetic on the stove pipe..

When starting from a cold start looking at the magnetic on the ST and stove pipe getting up to temperature.. once you have established proper temp and coal bed close bypass and look at cat prob to ensure it lighs off.. if not repeat above

on a hot reload.. cats already running.. open bypass load wood and Immediately close bypass as nothing needs to be reestablish..

on a miled restart.. cat at about 600.. load wood reestablish some draft and closed bypass and cat should light off again..

I agree. I just thought the magnetic thermometers were not very accurate and I also can't get a very accurate reading on the griddle with the IR thermometer. The magnetic thermocouple worked out great just have to get off the couch to swap it with the cat probe on the AT100. Once I have some more experience I guess I will just monitor STT with the mag TC then once I engage the cat switch over to the cat TC until the next cold start.

Last night was fire #2, took a bit to establish a good coal bed and by the time I had one STT was cresting 600. Added three splits on the big side of medium, waited a few minutes for them to catch then closed bypass. Started to cut back air around 850 and fully closed by 1000. Cat peaked at 1040 which is about 400 lower than the peak of fire #1. Temp stabilized at 1000 for a few hours then dropped steadily as it burned down.

All seemed to work well. Not sure why fire #1 cat temp was so much higher can only assume differences in the wood split size/species/moisture.

I also have not checked visual smoke from the chimney yet, will start to take a look. Overall am I just checking to see that there is no more smoke once the cat lights off?

 

[U235]

So the Auber AT100 is great for what it is. Does anyone have a suggestion for a multichannel data logger with display?

Seems like ultimately thermocouples monitoring STT, cat, & flue gas reporting to a data logger with local display and WiFi/Bluetooth is the real solution.

I believe @arnermd uses a perfect prime data logger. They offer a 4 channel TC logger with Bluetooth but for some reason it seems that unit is not offered with a plug in option. Batteries only.
I would also be interested in a plug-in Bluetooth data logger.
Maybe one day the stove top magnet, Condar flue guard (for DW flue temps) and Auber catalyst probe will be enough. But I can always find something to do with data. Log vs weather, compare with my HVAC operating hours, … always something to optimize.

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

I think my stove is your stoves twin. I had all the same issues. It's on its 3rd winter, and maybe it's last. Just started pricing out bk ashford's.

If, and only an if, it isn't happening, I was to get a new stove, I would get a BK Ashford 30.

 

[GrumpyDad]

I agree. I just thought the magnetic thermometers were not very accurate and I also can't get a very accurate reading on the griddle with the IR thermometer. The magnetic thermocouple worked out great just have to get off the couch to swap it with the cat probe on the AT100. Once I have some more experience I guess I will just monitor STT with the mag TC then once I engage the cat switch over to the cat TC until the next cold start.

Last night was fire #2, took a bit to establish a good coal bed and by the time I had one STT was cresting 600. Added three splits on the big side of medium, waited a few minutes for them to catch then closed bypass. Started to cut back air around 850 and fully closed by 1000. Cat peaked at 1040 which is about 400 lower than the peak of fire #1. Temp stabilized at 1000 for a few hours then dropped steadily as it burned down.

All seemed to work well. Not sure why fire #1 cat temp was so much higher can only assume differences in the wood split size/species/moisture.

I also have not checked visual smoke from the chimney yet, will start to take a look. Overall am I just checking to see that there is no more smoke once the cat lights off?

STT is challenging to use for anything substantive until you get a feel for YOUR stove and YOUR setup. Consider the fact that when the bypass is open, you have flames touching or darn near close to the top of your stove. But I bet, if you recently started up you could put your hands on the sides and feel minimal heat/pain. STT may say 600 but all you are doing is heating the outside world. Once you get that good bed of coals from a couple of smaller fires after a cold start, keep that air control up there with a 3/4 load of quality wood, then cut back to a nice even calm fire. One you feel those sides starting to warm up nicely, that's when you should move over to secondary. It's wasteful but, in the long run it will serve you best. Your cat wont overheat (or shouldnt) and your stove is now producing wonderful heat, and your next loads should last quite awhile.
I do look at my STT, but that's only when I have been running the stove for hours. Once a load of wood is in there with the damper open, you should only use that to avoid going above a certain point. I've reloaded before and forgotten to check on the reload, and had a box full of flames and a STT of 700. Cut that air back drastically, wait for it to calm down and the STT to reach less hair raising temps, then push the air back up, check on it every 5 minutes for awhile and as long as it seem stable shut down the damper routing through secondary.

These stoves are SO much easier to use in the winter than fall/spring outside temps IMO.

 

[Lorde]

I believe @arnermd uses a perfect prime data logger. They offer a 4 channel TC logger with Bluetooth but for some reason it seems that unit is not offered with a plug in option. Batteries only.
I would also be interested in a plug-in Bluetooth data logger.
Maybe one day the stove top magnet, Condar flue guard (for DW flue temps) and Auber catalyst probe will be enough. But I can always find something to do with data. Log vs weather, compare with my HVAC operating hours, … always something to optimize.

I found the PerfectPrime TC0521 4-Ch Thermocouple Thermometer and it does look like it fits the need other than battery power only. I contacted them to see if there was any option for power and expected battery life...

Side note what does DW stand for referencing flue temps?

Thanks

 

[Eman85]

glad you did the mid season.. it doesn't hurt.. proactive is the way to go.. this also confirms how you burn.. 2 thumbs up..

Side note what does DW stand for referencing flue temps?

DW, double wall stove pipe as opposed to SW single wall. On DW the surface temp doesn't tell you much.
K type thermocouples are pretty universal so there are a lot of meters you can use them with including many digital volt ohm meters. I have a 2 channel battery powered meter that I use with the Auber thermocouple that I ordered with a mini plug end so it plugs in my meter. I have another meter that can also do min-max if I wanted to check that, it's also battery powered. They are meters that I use for exhaust temps on engines and for my meat smoker.
As far as all of those probes, graphing and bluetooth, technology is good but I think you can become a slave to it and your stove. I have a magnetic STT and a magnetic flue temp thermometer. Mine are pretty accurate as checked with a IR gun but once you get a baseline the accuracy doesn't matter. I know that when my flue temp thermometer needle is at 12 o'clock the flue temp is getting high. I have DW pipe so the thermometer is on the flue outlet and I don't need my glasses to see it's at 12 o'clock I can see that from across the room. As long as I can keep my cat in the 1000-1500 range everything seems to work fine. I don't want the cat running at 1500 but it's been there a time or 2 and the stove and I have lived through it.

 

[arnermd]

So the Auber AT100 is great for what it is. Does anyone have a suggestion for a multichannel data logger with display?

Seems like ultimately thermocouples monitoring STT, cat, & flue gas reporting to a data logger with local display and WiFi/Bluetooth is the real solution.

This is what I use, Amazon....

PerfectPrime TC0520​

They also make a wireless version.

I agree with others that this is not required to run the stove. I bought it to help diagnose my issues and to know what is happening when i am not watching.... a mixed blessing, sometimes I wish I had not looked.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I agree. I just thought the magnetic thermometers were not very accurate and I also can't get a very accurate reading on the griddle with the IR thermometer. The magnetic thermocouple worked out great just have to get off the couch to swap it with the cat probe on the AT100. Once I have some more experience I guess I will just monitor STT with the mag TC then once I engage the cat switch over to the cat TC until the next cold start.

Last night was fire #2, took a bit to establish a good coal bed and by the time I had one STT was cresting 600. Added three splits on the big side of medium, waited a few minutes for them to catch then closed bypass. Started to cut back air around 850 and fully closed by 1000. Cat peaked at 1040 which is about 400 lower than the peak of fire #1. Temp stabilized at 1000 for a few hours then dropped steadily as it burned down.

All seemed to work well. Not sure why fire #1 cat temp was so much higher can only assume differences in the wood split size/species/moisture.

I also have not checked visual smoke from the chimney yet, will start to take a look. Overall am I just checking to see that there is no more smoke once the cat lights off?

So heres the thing with magnetic.. some are garbage.. some are pretty decent.. Get a pretty decent one.. I verify my magnetic with an IR.. so my flue may be say 50 degrees off.. so knowing that I know my stovepipe is good Hypothetically at say 350 degrees.. the magnetic on the ST same thing.. it may be a little of.. but knowing how much its off you can look at it and say.. ok im up to temp or You still need a little more time getting to temp..

the burn your Describing above sounds pretty good .. practice on replicating this.. you should be able to burn constantly clean and have minimal issues.. if I read this correctly

 

[Willcgt77]

When cat temperatures are low durimg a reload you should.. A ..open bypass for a minute or so to reestablish draft.. B.. expect some smoke spillage if your not reestablishing draft.. its not the brand of stove.. my friends lopi did the same thing untill he learned to reestablish draft prior to reload

During a colder reload.. sub 700 degrees cat temp some smoke will be visible untill you get the cat temps up

During a cold reload with bypass open.. you will still see smoke .. really visible.. untill you get your load to catch..

20 ft should be plenty.. of pipe.. I noticed that I didnt see an actual stove pipe temperatures posted.. Do you have something on the stovepipe to measure temperatures

I do not have a Stove pipe thermo just use the IR gun. I usually see 350 temps first several inches then it drops as read higher. Chimney is little over 15ft not 20 feet. I need 20 more inches of roof penetration to meet code. Ill wait longer before opening the griddle, I do open it right after I open bypass. All good points, Ill Continue to tweak process. Hopefully once i get chimney height and Air cable fixed ill be on the right track

 

[arnermd]

Abused cat.....

Took the cat out for inspection today, ceramic is cracked in multiple places. Frame is warped pretty bad. I added some cross support with SS safety wire.

Having trouble holding temps after dialing air back and peaks are not nearly what they used to be..... This cat may not make it one season.

Whoever was asking about the length, here it is, pretty close to 12-7/8"

 

[GrumpyDad]

Abused cat.....

Took the cat out for inspection today, ceramic is cracked in multiple places. Frame is warped pretty bad. I added some cross support with SS safety wire.

Having trouble holding temps after dialing air back and peaks are not nearly what they used to be..... This cat may not make it one season.

Whoever was asking about the length, here it is, pretty close to 12-7/8"

View attachment 308328View attachment 308329View attachment 308332View attachment 308331View attachment 308330

holy crap...what does your refractory material look like? Id complain to your dealer. Or VC (crickets).

 

[arnermd]

holy crap...what does your refractory material look like? Id complain to your dealer. Or VC (crickets).

hahahaha that's funny 🤣.... dealer I bought from went belly up about 4-5 years ago. I have called and emailed factory so many times I think they blocked me..... Not even worth my time....

Refractory actually looks pretty decent. Better than my other ones after 3 years of service.....

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I do not have a Stove pipe thermo just use the IR gun. I usually see 350 temps first several inches then it drops as read higher. Chimney is little over 15ft not 20 feet. I need 20 more inches of roof penetration to meet code. Ill wait longer before opening the griddle, I do open it right after I open bypass. All good points, Ill Continue to tweak process. Hopefully once i get chimney height and Air cable fixed ill be on the right track

put a magnetic thermometer in the canter of the griddle but..back at the edge to where it meets the stove

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Abused cat.....

Took the cat out for inspection today, ceramic is cracked in multiple places. Frame is warped pretty bad. I added some cross support with SS safety wire.

Having trouble holding temps after dialing air back and peaks are not nearly what they used to be..... This cat may not make it one season.

Whoever was asking about the length, here it is, pretty close to 12-7/8"

View attachment 308328View attachment 308329View attachment 308332View attachment 308331View attachment 308330

post another picture like that and we will be calling animal welfare on you..

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Were going to stop splitting for now.. the piles now over 7ft high.. model year 67 and model year 08.. kicked it out.. we split up the last of the rounds we has cut... were going to mix it up and go on the scrounge in a couple weeks.. lots of rain coming our way

 

[Eman85]

@arnermd I pulled my old cat out that had been in for years, mine looks like it did when I put it in. I kept it if I think of it I'll take a pic.
This new cat of mine has seen 1600 a few times hope it doesn't look like yours. Next time it warms up and I shut the stove down I think I'll pull it and look.

 

[arnermd]

Overnight burn, pretty sure this cat is toast, inactive.... Would love to hear other opinions.

• This was a pretty full load, solid oak splits on the larger / long side. The Good stuff.
• Closed bypass right away and set air to 100%, dialed air back to 45% 50 min later and left it for the night.
• Bed of coals present but not nearly as deep as it used to be.
• Glass is pretty clean this morning! No doubt due to extra air.
• Secondary temps took a long time to get to 1200.....

I noticed this past weekend I was seeing a lot more smoke than typical with bypass closed and higher air settings, even when with the cat at 1000 - 1200 and air dialed down to 20% I was seeing smoke.

This cat was new this season, saw first fire in Nov. Typical life for me is 1.5-2 seasons. Not sure what happened to this one.
I have never had a cat stop working, they always crumble and just fall apart.

Would very much like to see pics of others cats with some time on them.....

 

[gthomas785]

Overnight burn, pretty sure this cat is toast, inactive.... Would love to hear other opinions.

• This was a pretty full load, solid oak splits on the larger / long side. The Good stuff.
• Closed bypass right away and set air to 100%, dialed air back to 45% 50 min later and left it for the night.
• Bed of coals present but not nearly as deep as it used to be.
• Glass is pretty clean this morning! No doubt due to extra air.
• Secondary temps took a long time to get to 1200.....

I noticed this past weekend I was seeing a lot more smoke than typical with bypass closed and higher air settings, even when with the cat at 1000 - 1200 and air dialed down to 20% I was seeing smoke.

This cat was new this season, saw first fire in Nov. Typical life for me is 1.5-2 seasons. Not sure what happened to this one.
I have never had a cat stop working, they always crumble and just fall apart.

Would very much like to see pics of others cats with some time on them.....

View attachment 308349

Based on that graph I don't think your cat is dead. you would be seeing the secondary temp steadily drop in that case. You're right in the sweet spot as far as cat temps. As far as the smoke, I do not understand why but I also occasionally see some even with the cat hot especially after turning air down but it then clears up within ~30 mins or so. I bet if you had stayed up to watch it yours also did the same.

See how your cat temp recovers around 10 pm.. that means it is working. Count it as a blessing that it's not spiking to 1600+ anymore

P.s. since you only cut it back to 45%, makes sense you would get a shorter burn and lower cat temps. More of the fuel was consumed in primary combustion.

P.P.S I won't post a picture but my cat looks a lot like yours. It's fine. It will crumble at some point but I think that's pretty normal. Unlike you I didn't wrap anything around it so the lower back of mine is kicked out. I left it like that and it hasn't gotten any worse.

When my cat goes nuclear I don't do anything except close the air and wait for it to settle down. My theory is that opening the damper to cool it will cause just as much if not more thermal shock and cracking.

 

[arnermd]

Based on that graph I don't think your cat is dead. you would be seeing the secondary temp steadily drop in that case. You're right in the sweet spot as far as cat temps. As far as the smoke, I do not understand why but I also occasionally see some even with the cat hot especially after turning air down but it then clears up within ~30 mins or so. I bet if you had stayed up to watch it yours also did the same.

See how your cat temp recovers around 10 pm.. that means it is working. Count it as a blessing that it's not spiking to 1600+ anymore

P.s. since you only cut it back to 45%, makes sense you would get a shorter burn and lower cat temps. More of the fuel was consumed in primary combustion.

P.P.S I won't post a picture but my cat looks a lot like yours. It's fine. It will crumble at some point but I think that's pretty normal. Unlike you I didn't wrap anything around it so the lower back of mine is kicked out. I left it like that and it hasn't gotten any worse.

When my cat goes nuclear I don't do anything except close the air and wait for it to settle down. My theory is that opening the damper to cool it will cause just as much if not more thermal shock and cracking.

You might be right.... not sure. Thank you for your thoughts.

Been a long time since I burned with no cat, but I recall I was able to get the secondary up to temp (1000 - 1200) even with no cat installed. It took longer to get there and it did not stay there when I throttled air down.

Smoke: Best I can tell I am seeing smoke all the time now. But the weather has been crappy and it is hard to tell with overcast skies. I wonder if we see more smoke during upset conditions because our cats are only 1" thick???

Nuclear cat: Yeah I hear you, I have often wondered the same, does the thermal shock do more damage than the overtemp? IDK....

This mornings burn is sitting at 1140 on the cat with 50% air. Took longer to get there but makes me think you might be right. Maybe the cat is still active, but not hyperactive. Possibly the wife slipped my stove some Ritalin. hahaha

How long do your cats typically last before they crumble? Have you tried a steel cat?

Thanks again for sharing. Good to know I am not alone.....

 

[gthomas785]

How long do your cats typically last before they crumble? Have you tried a steel cat?

I've never tried a steel cat. I have been replacing my ceramic cats every 2 years. At that point they usually are not totally crumbled but may have chunks missing and the performance is reduced enough that I feel it's worth replacing. Last year around March or so I actually had a ~2" chunk fall out of my old catalyst, but I was able to rescue the piece and just set it gently on top of the hole and it continued operating. My new one from October already has a couple of hairline cracks but I'm not too worried. I'm getting my money's worth out of it. The key is not to disturb it too much.

 

[arnermd]

I've never tried a steel cat. I have been replacing my ceramic cats every 2 years. At that point they usually are not totally crumbled but may have chunks missing and the performance is reduced enough that I feel it's worth replacing. Last year around March or so I actually had a ~2" chunk fall out of my old catalyst, but I was able to rescue the piece and just set it gently on top of the hole and it continued operating. My new one from October already has a couple of hairline cracks but I'm not too worried. I'm getting my money's worth out of it. The key is not to disturb it too much.

Sounds like my experience, last year I did the same, put a cat in with holes and set some saved larger chunks on top.... Got me another year.....

As I write this: cat temps have stabilized at 1300 and appear to be flatlined, for now. Air is dialed back to 10%. STT = 480. Perfect....
So it appears the rumors of my cats demise have been greatly exaggerated.... I forgot cats have 9 lives. hahaha.
Your call was the correct one.

FYI: For those who have not seen this.... excellent writeup on cats and operation.
https://midwesthearth.com/pages/catalytic-combustor-faq

Very clear guidance on cat temps:
Temperatures above 1600°F will damage the catalyst. Temperatures between 1400°F — 1600°F are normal, but temperatures 1200°F — 1400°F are recommended.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Overnight burn, pretty sure this cat is toast, inactive.... Would love to hear other opinions.

• This was a pretty full load, solid oak splits on the larger / long side. The Good stuff.
• Closed bypass right away and set air to 100%, dialed air back to 45% 50 min later and left it for the night.
• Bed of coals present but not nearly as deep as it used to be.
• Glass is pretty clean this morning! No doubt due to extra air.
• Secondary temps took a long time to get to 1200.....

I noticed this past weekend I was seeing a lot more smoke than typical with bypass closed and higher air settings, even when with the cat at 1000 - 1200 and air dialed down to 20% I was seeing smoke.

This cat was new this season, saw first fire in Nov. Typical life for me is 1.5-2 seasons. Not sure what happened to this one.
I have never had a cat stop working, they always crumble and just fall apart.

Would very much like to see pics of others cats with some time on them.....

View attachment 308349

Me personally this looks like a great burn.. your cat rebounded at 9.20 pm.. between then and 1.40am your load offgassed, cat stayed lite the entire time and when done offgassing at 1.40am your cat temperature started to slowly decrease.. at no time did it look like the stove stalled

I would consider this a premium burn

 

[GrumpyDad]

Sounds like my experience, last year I did the same, put a cat in with holes and set some saved larger chunks on top.... Got me another year.....

As I write this: cat temps have stabilized at 1300 and appear to be flatlined, for now. Air is dialed back to 10%. STT = 480. Perfect....
So it appears the rumors of my cats demise have been greatly exaggerated.... I forgot cats have 9 lives. hahaha.
Your call was the correct one.

FYI: For those who have not seen this.... excellent writeup on cats and operation.
https://midwesthearth.com/pages/catalytic-combustor-faq

Very clear guidance on cat temps:
Temperatures above 1600°F will damage the catalyst. Temperatures between 1400°F — 1600°F are normal, but temperatures 1200°F — 1400°F are recommended.

From the midwest site on the cats: "most units in well-designed and properly operated appliances will last up to 10 years."
I had to laugh at that one.

I hope you figure everything out Arnermd. I got rid of the probes I was using that I borrowed from a neighbor. It was too frustrating to watch. In the end I can say they helped me realize that I needed to keep a large bed of coals in my stove for it to run somewhat predictably. I keep my air control to the point that I always see orange or flames, and I stopped getting those wild swings in temps MOST of the time.

 

[arnermd]

Me personally this looks like a great burn.. your cat rebounded at 9.20 pm.. between then and 1.40am your load offgassed, cat stayed lite the entire time and when done offgassing at 1.40am your cat temperature started to slowly decrease.. at no time did it look like the stove stalled

I would consider this a premium burn

Thanks for the comments. I guess what I was focusing on was how long it took to get the cat up to 1200 and then how it never really plateaued just went up and went down.

Wondering if maybe I had some soot masking or something that was slowing down the cat. This mornings burn has been very good (will post data later). Maybe last nights burn was needed to burn off the masking.....

 

[Woodsplitter67]

From the midwest site on the cats: "most units in well-designed and properly operated appliances will last up to 10 years."
I had to laugh at that one.

I hope you figure everything out Arnermd. I got rid of the probes I was using that I borrowed from a neighbor. It was too frustrating to watch. In the end I can say they helped me realize that I needed to keep a large bed of coals in my stove for it to run somewhat predictably. I keep my air control to the point that I always see orange or flames, and I stopped getting those wild swings in temps MOST of the time.

This information is complete false and inaccurate.. Catalyst life only goes by hours.. and hours only.. a cat may last 10 years based on an occasional weekend use.. It will Certainly will not last that long with daily use.. No manufacturers catalyst will last that long in any brand stove with daily use..

oil changes in vehicles are the same thing.. miles.. not years.. same principle.. its hours used.. not time span