2021-2022 BK everything thread

[bikedennis]

Good to know. I've been charing 15-20 min. with dry pine and fir thinking all along it wasn't necessary.

 

[stoveliker]

3-5 minutes is acceptable, although dialing up the thermostat is also an option.

When the wood starts burning even before reloading is complete and in direct contradiction to the manual? ("Never burn with the door open. Leaving the door open may damage the combustor.")

Evidently the manual, including the safety precautions with the red crossed out images, is more suggestive than authoritative in it's recommendations than I thought.

 

[stoveliker]

Good to know. I've been charing 15-20 min. with dry pine and fir thinking all along it wasn't necessary.

The manual says 20-30 minutes or until the fire is well established. So you're good.

 

[Highbeam]

Good to know. I've been charing 15-20 min. with dry pine and fir thinking all along it wasn't necessary.

I suppose that "well established" part is the big question. Takes some human judgement. In my experience with dry fir, 20-30 minutes isn't necessary and for anyone who says it is, I would ask, why?

 

[stoveliker]

Soft wood that's not well established after 15 minutes is not dry enough. Period.

 

[Highbeam]

Soft wood that's not well established after 15 minutes is not dry enough. Period.

I've probably wasted a lot of energy over the years chasing that 20-30 minute char trying to do my best to follow the manual. Over the years people have had all sorts of reasons that the 20-30 minute char is so important to even include burning off the microscopic hairs of the wood for some benefit. Like a fully charred or blackened load was important.

Anyway, I think I'll start turning down the stat much sooner. Always trying to improve.

 

[stoveliker]

I've probably wasted a lot of energy over the years chasing that 20-30 minute char trying to do my best to follow the manual. Over the years people have had all sorts of reasons that the 20-30 minute char is so important to even include burning off the microscopic hairs of the wood for some benefit. Like a fully charred or blackened load was important.

Anyway, I think I'll start turning down the stat much sooner. Always trying to improve.

I don't know what older manuals say, but mine has the quote above: 20-30 minutes or until the fire is well established.

Maybe BK updated the manual at some point in time.

I do generally go back to manuals once I think I know how to operate something.
I find that useful. It does teach me new things, because now I have a better grasp of the equipment. It puts formed habits in a new light, whether the habits were right or wrong.

 

[Ashful]

Hi guys,

This subject has come up a few times in the past, you can probably find these statements in the "all thing BK threads" of 2018 - 2021, if you care to prove me right or wrong. But from my memory, as this is what I've been doing based on those prior replies from BKVP:

1. The manual is aimed at getting a new operator successful with operating the stove, with the least possible issues. Experienced burners will learn that it need not be followed in every detail, such as waiting for the cat probe to actually reach active before closing the bypass on a well-charred load.

2. The oft-quoted 20-30 minutes on high is after closing the bypass, and serves two purposes. The first is to cook all of the creo and deposits out of the firebox, which you deposited on your prior low-and-slow burn, to avoid build-up over time. The second is to bake an acceptable amount of moisture out of the fresh load of wood, such that you don't stall the cat when turning down low.

Now, on item 1 above, I have a question in the opposite direction from your former line of discussion. Namely, I've been closing the bypass earlier and earlier, over the last several weeks. I'm running one of the beta ("B3") ceramic cats that BKVP had shipped to me and one other users four years ago this week, I believe it's the same or very similar to what is sold as the "V3" cat, today. I'm getting light-off just ten minutes after a cold start, on a full load of big oak and ash splits, despite the cat probe being barely off it's "dead-cold" position (maybe only 30% progress to "active") and a flue probe temp still below 250F. When I say light-off, I mean the cat will instantly glow orange hot, indicating temperatures 1000F+.

This is all excellent news for a 4 year old cat with 25+ cords thru it, and probably more than double Highbeam's oft-quoted 12,000 hours. I guess we can tell BKVP that his new coating is worth something, but I can't help but think that taking a ceramic substrate from an assumed 250F to well over 1000F in the few seconds following the closing of the bypass damper, isn't going to do some mechanical damage.

I've been doing this a few weeks now, each time I have a chance to do a cold (or "cool") start, which has been more frequent than usual due to our warm weather this year. No signs of mechanical failure that I can see, looking thru the front door, but I'll be interested to see what it looks like when I eventually pull it for cleaning.

Anyone else doing the same? Are you running a ceramic or steel cat?

Yea, that happens with me too. In fact, when loading, I can only get the first layer of splits in before good flames start licking up. It is hard to get a full load in.

You do have stove gloves?

 

[Highbeam]

Hi guys,

This subject has come up a few times in the past, you can probably find these statements in the "all thing BK threads" of 2018 - 2021, if you care to prove me right or wrong. But from my memory, as this is what I've been doing based on those prior replies from BKVP:

1. The manual is aimed at getting a new operator successful with operating the stove, with the least possible issues. Experienced burners will learn that it need not be followed in every detail, such as waiting for the cat probe to actually reach active before closing the bypass on a well-charred load.

2. The oft-quoted 20-30 minutes on high is after closing the bypass, and serves two purposes. The first is to cook all of the creo and deposits out of the firebox, which you deposited on your prior low-and-slow burn, to avoid build-up over time. The second is to bake an acceptable amount of moisture out of the fresh load of wood, such that you don't stall the cat when turning down low.

Now, on item 1 above, I have a question in the opposite direction from your former line of discussion. Namely, I've been closing the bypass earlier and earlier, over the last several weeks. I'm running one of the beta ("B3") ceramic cats that BKVP had shipped to me and one other users four years ago this week, I believe it's the same or very similar to what is sold as the "V3" cat, today. I'm getting light-off just ten minutes after a cold start, on a full load of big oak and ash splits, despite the cat probe being barely off it's "dead-cold" position (maybe only 30% progress to "active") and a flue probe temp still below 250F. When I say light-off, I mean the cat will instantly glow orange hot, indicating temperatures 1000F+.

This is all excellent news for a 4 year old cat with 25+ cords thru it, and probably more than double Highbeam's oft-quoted 12,000 hours. I guess we can tell BKVP that his new coating is worth something, but I can't help but think that taking a ceramic substrate from an assumed 250F to well over 1000F in the few seconds following the closing of the bypass damper, isn't going to do some mechanical damage.

I've been doing this a few weeks now, each time I have a chance to do a cold (or "cool") start, which has been more frequent than usual due to our warm weather this year. No signs of mechanical failure that I can see, looking thru the front door, but I'll be interested to see what it looks like when I eventually pull it for cleaning.

Anyone else doing the same? Are you running a ceramic or steel cat?


You do have stove gloves?

I certainly don’t have the experimental special edition cat but would love to have one that lasted for more than two seasons!

I have been closing the bypass when flue temps are over 500 or cat is active. Whichever happens first. I don’t want to engage too early and gunk up the catalyst.

It’s not just me with repeated experience with 10-12k hour cat life. It’s all over and more examples all the time with all of the new cat stove owners.

 

[stoveliker]

Hi guys,

This subject has come up a few times in the past, you can probably find these statements in the "all thing BK threads" of 2018 - 2021, if you care to prove me right or wrong. But from my memory, as this is what I've been doing based on those prior replies from BKVP:

1. The manual is aimed at getting a new operator successful with operating the stove, with the least possible issues. Experienced burners will learn that it need not be followed in every detail, such as waiting for the cat probe to actually reach active before closing the bypass on a well-charred load.

2. The oft-quoted 20-30 minutes on high is after closing the bypass, and serves two purposes. The first is to cook all of the creo and deposits out of the firebox, which you deposited on your prior low-and-slow burn, to avoid build-up over time. The second is to bake an acceptable amount of moisture out of the fresh load of wood, such that you don't stall the cat when turning down low.

Now, on item 1 above, I have a question in the opposite direction from your former line of discussion. Namely, I've been closing the bypass earlier and earlier, over the last several weeks. I'm running one of the beta ("B3") ceramic cats that BKVP had shipped to me and one other users four years ago this week, I believe it's the same or very similar to what is sold as the "V3" cat, today. I'm getting light-off just ten minutes after a cold start, on a full load of big oak and ash splits, despite the cat probe being barely off it's "dead-cold" position (maybe only 30% progress to "active") and a flue probe temp still below 250F. When I say light-off, I mean the cat will instantly glow orange hot, indicating temperatures 1000F+.

This is all excellent news for a 4 year old cat with 25+ cords thru it, and probably more than double Highbeam's oft-quoted 12,000 hours. I guess we can tell BKVP that his new coating is worth something, but I can't help but think that taking a ceramic substrate from an assumed 250F to well over 1000F in the few seconds following the closing of the bypass damper, isn't going to do some mechanical damage.

I've been doing this a few weeks now, each time I have a chance to do a cold (or "cool") start, which has been more frequent than usual due to our warm weather this year. No signs of mechanical failure that I can see, looking thru the front door, but I'll be interested to see what it looks like when I eventually pull it for cleaning.

Anyone else doing the same? Are you running a ceramic or steel cat?

I do the same. On a cold start, I have had the cat glowing immediately after closing the bypass 7 minutes after lighting the fire, and despite the gauge having barely moved. Steel cat.

My earlier comments about the manual were not so much on the charring time (the manual says "or until well established"!), but on running with the door open - something that explicitly (with a red bar thru it in the safety precautions section) is said to be damaging the cat.

 

[stoveliker]

Correction: I've done this (early bypass close, check if cat glows) a few times. It works, but I am concerned about the rapid temperature increase and cat coating delamination. So it's not standard practice. (And cat is from 2018 or 2019, I believe.)

 

[Montanalocal]

You do have stove gloves?

Oh you bet. The thickest longest welding gloves I can find.

Amazon product ASIN B07CY4JYDJ
I have a KE40 on its second year with the steel cat it came with. I have been burning with the door open like I described since I bought it, burning 5-6 months a year 24/7. Every time I remove the flame shield to check to see if it needs brushing, it looks brand new.

 

[BKVP]

I just consulted the premier expert:

Q. I have a technical question. Is there any risk or sustained damage if a combustor goes from a low temp (say 500F) to 1,200F in 5 minutes versus 20 minutes. Any greater likelihood of delamination? (Yes I know that's not a word)

A. To answer your question, that is pretty quick heat up, but I don't think it is a problem. Ceramic would be more susceptible to cracking if we go from hot to cold very fast. I think metal would be OK either way.

 

[Ashful]

I certainly don’t have the experimental special edition cat but would love to have one that lasted for more than two seasons!

As I said, 4 years this week, and at least 6+ cords thru this stove every year. I'm impressed.

I have been closing the bypass when flue temps are over 500 or cat is active. Whichever happens first. I don’t want to engage too early and gunk up the catalyst.

Like you, I aim to get light-off pretty quickly, after closing that bypass, or else go back to bypass until it can be achieved. However, I've also mistakenly done the bone-headed move of going to close the bypass and found it had been closed all along, either from cold start or a very cool reload, a few times each year. It has never caused any ill-effect, I suppose whatever gunk I put onto it burned off several minutes later when the thing is glowing orange.

It’s not just me with repeated experience with 10-12k hour cat life. It’s all over and more examples all the time with all of the new cat stove owners.

Yep, didn't mean to imply otherwise. I only named you because you were the one from who I first heard this number, and I've seen you quote it again since. It's an industry number, I didn't intend to shoot the messenger. My point was that this B3 cat has clearly lasted much longer.

There's a wider discussion on cat life that should be had, though. I've been putting roughly 10 cords per year thru a pair of cat stoves for 11 years now, so somewhere over 100 cords. I've been thru traditional ceramic cats, diesel foil, durafoil, and now this special B3 on ceramic. But short of a catastrophic cooking and peeling or mechanical failure (all of which I experienced on my older stoves), and despite all this experience with cat stoves, I still can't tell you when a cat is depleted and thus "gone bad". I'm beginning to suspect no one can, as putting aside mechanical or severe overfire scenarios, I suspect the decrease in performance is likely too linear to experience any avalanche in performance that one would associate with going bad.

I bring this up because, I do suspect my 4-year old B3 cat probably drops out of active a bit sooner than it did when brand new, but not so much that I'm even sure of that (given the numerous other variables involved), and certainly not enough that I'm feeling any urgency to replace it. I replaced the cats that came with these stoves at 3 years, but will admit it was driven as much by curiosity and superstition as any confidence it needed to be done.

I have a KE40 on its second year with the steel cat it came with. I have been burning with the door open like I described since I bought it, burning 5-6 months a year 24/7. Every time I remove the flame shield to check to see if it needs brushing, it looks brand new.

I would not run with the door open, not out of any fear for a cheap combustor, but out of fear of damaging my bypass door. As BKVP just posted, you can't easily damage a steelcat due to thermal shock, their only acute failure mode appears to be over-firing. But having my wife walk in on me with a KE40 laying on it's back and a welder in the living room would lead to too many questions about my choices in life.

 

[Highbeam]

As I said, 4 years this week, and at least 6+ cords thru this stove every year. I'm impressed.


Like you, I aim to get light-off pretty quickly, after closing that bypass, or else go back to bypass until it can be achieved. However, I've also mistakenly done the bone-headed move of going to close the bypass and found it had been closed all along, either from cold start or a very cool reload, a few times each year. It has never caused any ill-effect, I suppose whatever gunk I put onto it burned off several minutes later when the thing is glowing orange.


Yep, didn't mean to imply otherwise. I only named you because you were the one from who I first heard this number, and I've seen you quote it again since. It's an industry number, I didn't intend to shoot the messenger. My point was that this B3 cat has clearly lasted much longer.

There's a wider discussion on cat life that should be had, though. I've been putting roughly 10 cords per year thru a pair of cat stoves for 11 years now, so somewhere over 100 cords. I've been thru traditional ceramic cats, diesel foil, durafoil, and now this special B3 on ceramic. But short of a catastrophic cooking and peeling or mechanical failure (all of which I experienced on my older stoves), and despite all this experience with cat stoves, I still can't tell you when a cat is depleted and thus "gone bad". I'm beginning to suspect no one can, as putting aside mechanical or severe overfire scenarios, I suspect the decrease in performance is likely too linear to experience any avalanche in performance that one would associate with going bad.

I bring this up because, I do suspect my 4-year old B3 cat probably drops out of active a bit sooner than it did when brand new, but not so much that I'm even sure of that (given the numerous other variables involved), and certainly not enough that I'm feeling any urgency to replace it. I replaced the cats that came with these stoves at 3 years, but will admit it was driven as much by curiosity and superstition as any confidence it needed to be done.


I would not run with the door open, not out of any fear for a cheap combustor, but out of fear of damaging my bypass door. As BKVP just posted, you can't easily damage a steelcat due to thermal shock, their only acute failure mode appears to be over-firing. But having my wife walk in on me with a KE40 laying on it's back and a welder in the living room would lead to too many questions about my choices in life.

For me, trying to eek out every bit of cat life I can, it is painfully obvious when the cat has died. Tar dripping onto my roof obvious.

My cats see 9 months of heating each year at low output which means the catalyst is doing all the work.

I’m happy for anyone that can get more than the expected life from a cat. Unlike some, I don’t just swap it out at two years but actually wait for failure. Due to recent supply chain issues I have, for the first time, bought a new spare cat and have it ready.

Cheers to BK for trying new coatings for longer life.

 

[Ashful]

For me, trying to eek out every bit of cat life I can, it is painfully obvious when the cat has died. Tar dripping onto my roof obvious.

Interesting. It might be the difference in what we're burning, or it might be that I never gave one enough time to get that far gone. My Jotuls would always destroy the cat due to overfire, way before it had a chance to die any natural death, and the sole pair I replaced on my set of BK's was done because I could sense they were not holding active as long as they once had. Indeed, the new ones were super-active by comparison, as you'd always expect for a new combustor, but there was no point of avalanche where I could mark the calendar as the old ones having gone bad. Rather, it appeared to be a pretty linear and very minor decline, which could have likely been continued another year or three, if I hadn't been more curious than frugal about trying new combustors.

I've been burning very nearly 100% red oak since I've had these BK's, although I've been stacking more ash than oak the last two or three years (EAB), so the fuel going into my stoves will be changing by spring or next fall. But I suspect you're burning some pine, hemlock, cedar, and other softwoods, which might give a more obvious sign at the top of the chimney, when the cat's performance takes my asserted downhill slide.

 

[kennyp2339]

I was hoping to be sneaky on this late winter / spring, I've only burnt 2 cords out of my woodshed and 1/3 cord (face cord) of uglies since the start of this burn season, my dilemma here is that I'm almost out of wood in the garage rack, its time to refill everything as another round of snow and cold temps are coming in for Thursday through the next 7 days, I wanted to raid another ugly rack and hope that it carries me over to the end of the season, but I never made it to the pile since I've been crazy busy, now everything is soaked and surrounded by mud, so it looks like I'm pulling from my other bay on the shed, this bay is the start of my majority of ash collection.

 

[BKVP]

13F at my home this morning.....thankfully that was outside! As for "Expected Life", again those are words not from the combustor manufacturer, but the online retailer of combustors. I wrote this recently, the #1 provider got tired of the "Expected Life" description and no longer provides combustors to that same online retailer.

Everyone's actual mileage may vary....burning habits, fuel/ conditioning, and total fuel burned are all variables that can influence combustor life. I'll be interested to see if my KE40 (installed in 2020) cat will last as long as my prior stove cats. My fuels have always been mixed, plus the use of NIELS for 2 full seasons, exclusively.

My prior experience is about 7-8 years. We get plenty of calls where owners say their stove doesn't put out the heat like it use to. And we are always surprised when we ask "when was the last time you replaced or cleaned your combustor?" and the response is, "never". Then you ask how old the stove is and it always nearly a decade (a few have been much, much longer). Of course these folks may be less sensitive to the appreciable change in performance than others.

 

[Highbeam]

13F at my home this morning.....thankfully that was outside! As for "Expected Life", again those are words not from the combustor manufacturer, but the online retailer of combustors. I wrote this recently, the #1 provider got tired of the "Expected Life" description and no longer provides combustors to that same online retailer.

Everyone's actual mileage may vary....burning habits, fuel/ conditioning, and total fuel burned are all variables that can influence combustor life. I'll be interested to see if my KE40 (installed in 2020) cat will last as long as my prior stove cats. My fuels have always been mixed, plus the use of NIELS for 2 full seasons, exclusively.

My prior experience is about 7-8 years. We get plenty of calls where owners say their stove doesn't put out the heat like it use to. And we are always surprised when we ask "when was the last time you replaced or cleaned your combustor?" and the response is, "never". Then you ask how old the stove is and it always nearly a decade (a few have been much, much longer). Of course these folks may be less sensitive to the appreciable change in performance than others.

Let me try to be diplomatic here because I know some people get pretty upset. I have no bias, I am not selling stoves or the concept of catalytic stoves. They are pretty great though.

Just as you may feel that I demand and expect a particular high level of performance, I may feel that you are willing to tolerate a very low level of performance from a worn out catalyst. We all know that some operators run these stoves without a catalyst, just wanting cheap heat. I think we can all acknowledge that there is a range of tolerance for a worn out cat so don't discredit my experience and I won't discredit yours.

What I expected after reading about the expected life from manufacturers and retailers turned into reality. My further experience and that of many other forum members with the same and different cat stoves on this and other forums have long since confirmed that estimate of expected life. Real world experience from all of the above has shown that 10-12k hours is the expected life for a cat but some folks can get more. Especially if they are willing to tolerate a worn out cat along with higher emissions, higher visible emissions, more wood consumption, etc. True, BK has been making stoves a long time and has done research but that is just one data point from a manufacturer. User experiences from forum posts are far more valuable for unbiased data. Unfortunately, stove marketing from the industry (not necessarily BK) has been misleading since forever.

In the past, we have agreed to go outside and look up at your stack. If it's smoking when the cat is active then it's probably time to investigate. That's still the appropriate advice and I don't think I've ever heard of anybody advising forum posters to just swap out a cat due to age alone. I personally run the cats until they are worn out and puking white smoke, dripping tar on my roof, and wasting wood to keep up. There is an "avalanche" of performance drop when they die. If the coatings improve and that starts to take 5 years I will be thrilled since even at 2 years I am money ahead. For my application, this thermostatic cat stove is a perfect match.

 

[Highbeam]

I've been burning very nearly 100% red oak since I've had these BK's, although I've been stacking more ash than oak the last two or three years (EAB), so the fuel going into my stoves will be changing by spring or next fall. But I suspect you're burning some pine, hemlock, cedar, and other softwoods, which might give a more obvious sign at the top of the chimney, when the cat's performance takes my asserted downhill slide.

21 degrees here this morning and blowing all night so I threw an extra short load on this morning.

I don't burn pine, hemlock, or true spruce. I have burned cedar in the past. I'm up in the mountain foothills so we mostly get doug fir. In fact, that's all I've burned for the last several years and all I will burn for at least the next two since my woodshed is pretty full of it. Our big three firewood species are doug fir, red alder, and big leaf maple. I really like the maple and alder but most logging residue is the doug fir which is why I burn it.

When the cat dies a horrible death, it is very possible that the oils in the doug fir make it messier than hardwoods would be. Smoke goes from blue whisps to white. It's pretty obvious if you're watching.

One more thought... my stove is right sized. So I'm not trying to run this thing hot. This means that for my application, the cat is doing all of the cleanup work with almost no flames. As such, the failed cat means no scrubbing.

 

[jdonna]

Real world experience from all of the above has shown that 10-12k hours is the expected life for a cat but some folks can get more

I agree, I find it's time to swap 2-3 yrs, 10k-12K hrs. with a cat. I'm at that mark again with my stove, but do not want to swap with sub zero temps currently.

Interesting on all the comments of when to turn down the stoves, I've theorized if you bake in for 20-30 minutes the stove can experience overall shorter burn times if the wood was dry to begin with.

 

[Nealm66]

Man, I’m glad to hear there are others doing hot loads. It’s pretty much all the time for me with my work schedule. I have a smoke detector in the same room as my stove and it keeps me at a fine line on how I reload. I have a temp gage sitting on top between the cat gage and the pipe and there’s a spot during the char that if I don’t close the bypass the smoke detector will for sure go off like clockwork. If I have time, I’ll let the temp gauge reach another certain spot before I throttle it down to the sweet spot. No noticeable changes in cat performance but I thought for sure I was destroying mine early with my hot reloading but work schedule comes first. My princess still seems to have a mind of its own when it comes to burn time. All the same wood, doug fir snags from the same stand of timber. Last night, down to 17, expected things to be burned down pretty good at 6am from a 6pm refill = not . House is good and warm, no idea how or why it can do that. Other milder mornings it might be burned down pretty good where I wouldn’t expect it to go much longer putting out much heat. I gave up this last Sunday and just let it ride and ended up at 21 hours even though it was pretty cold out. Definitely not complaining lol. Just weird

 

[BKVP]

Man, I’m glad to hear there are others doing hot loads. It’s pretty much all the time for me with my work schedule. I have a smoke detector in the same room as my stove and it keeps me at a fine line on how I reload. I have a temp gage sitting on top between the cat gage and the pipe and there’s a spot during the char that if I don’t close the bypass the smoke detector will for sure go off like clockwork. If I have time, I’ll let the temp gauge reach another certain spot before I throttle it down to the sweet spot. No noticeable changes in cat performance but I thought for sure I was destroying mine early with my hot reloading but work schedule comes first. My princess still seems to have a mind of its own when it comes to burn time. All the same wood, doug fir snags from the same stand of timber. Last night, down to 17, expected things to be burned down pretty good at 6am from a 6pm refill = not . House is good and warm, no idea how or why it can do that. Other milder mornings it might be burned down pretty good where I wouldn’t expect it to go much longer putting out much heat. I gave up this last Sunday and just let it ride and ended up at 21 hours even though it was pretty cold out. Definitely not complaining lol. Just weird

Just appreciate the technology and most importantly keep it running! By keeping it running the room temps will remain fairly constant. If you let the stove go out and all the mass temps drop, it will require more energy to get it back to where you are now.

Next week I will be gone all week to Hearth Expo in ATL. I know I will load the King to bear on Sunday morning before I leave, but my wife's work hours dictate she run the NG furnace! Never, Never when I am home!

 

[BKVP]

Let me try to be diplomatic here because I know some people get pretty upset. I have no bias, I am not selling stoves or the concept of catalytic stoves. They are pretty great though.

Just as you may feel that I demand and expect a particular high level of performance, I may feel that you are willing to tolerate a very low level of performance from a worn out catalyst. We all know that some operators run these stoves without a catalyst, just wanting cheap heat. I think we can all acknowledge that there is a range of tolerance for a worn out cat so don't discredit my experience and I won't discredit yours.

What I expected after reading about the expected life from manufacturers and retailers turned into reality. My further experience and that of many other forum members with the same and different cat stoves on this and other forums have long since confirmed that estimate of expected life. Real world experience from all of the above has shown that 10-12k hours is the expected life for a cat but some folks can get more. Especially if they are willing to tolerate a worn out cat along with higher emissions, higher visible emissions, more wood consumption, etc. True, BK has been making stoves a long time and has done research but that is just one data point from a manufacturer. User experiences from forum posts are far more valuable for unbiased data. Unfortunately, stove marketing from the industry (not necessarily BK) has been misleading since forever.

In the past, we have agreed to go outside and look up at your stack. If it's smoking when the cat is active then it's probably time to investigate. That's still the appropriate advice and I don't think I've ever heard of anybody advising forum posters to just swap out a cat due to age alone. I personally run the cats until they are worn out and puking white smoke, dripping tar on my roof, and wasting wood to keep up. There is an "avalanche" of performance drop when they die. If the coatings improve and that starts to take 5 years I will be thrilled since even at 2 years I am money ahead. For my application, this thermostatic cat stove is a perfect match.

Well, you are correct. There are plenty of observations in the real world. Those that read these posts need to keep a few things in mind. Not all catalytic wood stoves are alike in regard to combustor life, that is certain! And yes each user is entitled to their own experiences yet I might suggest of all of us involved, I deal with more BK owners than anyone else. When I say "I", it is meant as our staff, globally. So we do know the more expansive view, not just forums or in many cases real-world experiences.

I am intrigued by this conversation about fuel species as it relates to combustor life spans. Of course we started here in the NW and still to this day share a considerable number of living rooms. I will look into warranty claims & post market sales by region in the USA. I won't have sufficient data in other countries as many of those are handled by distributors. I will get back to this is a few weeks.

Studies done by Sud Chemie and Clariant and Applied Ceramics have always focused on potential harmful ingredients, I don't think fuel species has been part of those studies. I might suggest looking at the greater US market will be out best indicator. Of course, each region also may have more influence on study results due to winter time temps and duration of winter heating demand days. Interesting...

Moving along, precious metal coatings and the specific blends are oft times specific to manufacturer needs based upon their combustion designs. One design may not need the same amount of surface area or the same matrix of precious metals. When we (all us mfg's) design catalytic models, I am certain all get plenty of prototypes for testing. Given that we only have 2 dilution tunnels (which is 2 more than some solid fuel manufacturers that use test labs for R & D), we have a short list of volunteers. Ashful was on the last list 4 years ago and was provided a V3 matrix. Initially, we get great feedback in the form of observations from these test groups and after a number of years (seasons/cords) we can evaluate putting the combustor actually into a test seeking certification. Doing it this way prevents us from repeating the industry sins of the 1980's. When we get ready to certify another new solid fuel appliance, we will go to our list.

As for marketing materials, my position on the value of those is known by anyone that has read any of my posts on the subject.

Thanks
BKVP

 

[jophysx]

I've got a new Blaze King Princess coming in a few weeks. Looking forward to next year's burn season. . . Any preference for split size? Does the Princess do better with a large number of smallish splits, or a few big splits?
Or am I over thinking this?
-Jim