2021-2022 BK everything thread

[begreen]

Since I came here asking about my pipe condensation issues I have been charring/baking each load 20min. From cold start to cat probe pegged at max and pipe at 700~ inside the stove looks like yellow hell (the glass radiates like crazy) it takes 15-20min. I think my wood is dry. Still lots of condensing going on.

Even the best procedures can be thwarted by a cold chimney that doesn't retain heat well enough to keep flue gases from condensing. This becomes more apparent when average flue temps hover in the 250-300º range.

 

[Highbeam]

Came to the lake yesterday eve. Outside temps in the low teens. The heat pump kept the house nice and toasty at 72. Got the fire going quickly so that the BK could takeover the house heating load (my usual practice to shut off the pump as I come to the lake).
As the stove settled, pipe at 300-350 cat probe at around 2:00pm I noticed the house cooling. I turned on the fans to help circulate the air (usually I have no need for the fans at all). I left the fans at min. speed. Within 10min the cat went to 3:00, pipe to 450 and the fire became somewhat more lively.

Why is that? Is the fan air somehow hitting the thermostat? No issue with it, just an observation.

You have just witnessed the awesomeness of the thermostat reacting to you cooling the stove with the fans. The thermostat opened and increased the burn rate of the stove to maintain the stove temperature.

 

[crstrode]

The insert uses that remote electric one with the red color right?

The thermometer is built-in, and no, I don't think it is electric. Here is what it looks like. The insert is at room temperature cold in this photo taken just a few minutes ago.

By the way, this insert is fairly new - installed in October of 2020. Yesterday I re-loaded and had the thermostat on full and the bypass open to get back up to operating temperature. Lost track of time and came back to a VERY hot room. Even after burning full blast with a load of dry Ponderosa pine, for well over an hour, the thermostat was at about 75% full scale. I usually operate at a much lower thermostat setting, and in this case I did notice some heat-induced "aroma" - probably burning the last vestiges of residual paint somewhere . . .

Anyway -
I'm wondering just how high the thermostat should go under these circumstances, and does the room-temperature indication seem correct?

The good part is that the glass is now a lot cleaner

 

[MissMac]

Not Poindexter here, but I'd think that if the cat lights off, and you don't see smoke (i.e. cat is not just glowing from the heat flowing through it), and your chimney remains as clean as it was in your first season with good wood (I'd check it at least once mid season at this age), then I'd leave it be. No indications it's not working.

However, I would order a new one to have it on hand for when you need it (and given the current supply issues).

I have a cat on hand, and have been tempted to swap it out just to see if the difference is notable. Hard for me to say re: smoke coming out of the chimney, as my chimney has intermittently smoked on/off since year one. I think it has something to do with some of the light softwoods I burn, but can't say for sure. I have no issues sweeping once per year, and don't have any gunky creo, just nice brownish flakes/dust. I feel like it might be time for the new one, it just doesn't seem right to get rid of this one when it still glows so much.

 

[stoveliker]

I have a cat on hand, and have been tempted to swap it out just to see if the difference is notable. Hard for me to say re: smoke coming out of the chimney, as my chimney has intermittently smoked on/off since year one. I think it has something to do with some of the light softwoods I burn, but can't say for sure. I have no issues sweeping once per year, and don't have any gunky creo, just nice brownish flakes/dust. I feel like it might be time for the new one, it just doesn't seem right to get rid of this one when it still glows so much.

Then I'd wait swapping until the smoke behavior changes. E.g. more smoke 8 hrs into a burn or so. Maybe others may have different advice. My point of view is that if no negative issues are observed (smoke/Creo), and behavior (temp, glowing etc) has not changed, I see no reason it change it out. Once it won't light off easily, takes effort to do its job (need to run higher), and you see more smoke and stuff in your chimney, then I'd consider a new one.
My $0.02

 

[Poindexter]

Hey @Poindexter what do you personally use as your line in the sand to replace your cat? I'm on my original (4 winters), and I figure that i've put a solid 11000+ hrs on it. I keep thinking I should replace it, but it lights off like a boss on cold starts, and glows like a champ on/off during the burn cycle. So, it seems like it would be a waste to replace? Can the burn times/heat be degrading while still having such a glowing cat?

I usually notice the heat output isn't the same. Like I load it up full and know how many coals are in there and whether the wind is blowing and how cold it is out, and I just have to turn the stove up a leetle bit higher to keep the house as warm as I expect.

At 11k hours you are probably getting close. When you are sure the heat output isn't as good as you are used to let the stove go cold, brush the pipe, inspect the cat face and vacuum if needed, look it over real good to make sure everything else is right. At this point I usually do one more burn just to be sure the heat output really is lower than I am used to, then swap the cat. You will need a new gasket everytime the cat comes out of the hole.

 

[MissMac]

I usually notice the heat output isn't the same. Like I load it up full and know how many coals are in there and whether the wind is blowing and how cold it is out, and I just have to turn the stove up a leetle bit higher to keep the house as warm as I expect.

At 11k hours you are probably getting close. When you are sure the heat output isn't as good as you are used to let the stove go cold, brush the pipe, inspect the cat face and vacuum if needed, look it over real good to make sure everything else is right. At this point I usually do one more burn just to be sure the heat output really is lower than I am used to, then swap the cat. You will need a new gasket everytime the cat comes out of the hole.

Okay then, i'm glad I asked. Last winter there were days when I thought "geeze, I just don't think I'm getting the same heat this year" but I chalked it up to burner lighter softwoods than usual. This year, I'm feeling underwhelmed with the heat output from what I think I recall, so I'm gonna let the stove cool down and throw the new one in and see if I'm imagining things, or if indeed it is time. I've only got about 5 burning days in since I swept the chimney, so I'm good that way. I vacuum the face of the cat periodically over each heating season, as I do get issues with fly ash. If the heat output is your trigger, then my spidey senses were bang on. Just seems odd to me that the cat can glow like a flashlight but be underwhelming in performance.

I can't say for certain exactly where I'm at for hours on this cat, but my best guess is between 8500-11,000.

Thanks

 

[Highbeam]

Okay then, i'm glad I asked. Last winter there were days when I thought "geeze, I just don't think I'm getting the same heat this year" but I chalked it up to burner lighter softwoods than usual. This year, I'm feeling underwhelmed with the heat output from what I think I recall, so I'm gonna let the stove cool down and throw the new one in and see if I'm imagining things, or if indeed it is time. I've only got about 5 burning days in since I swept the chimney, so I'm good that way. I vacuum the face of the cat periodically over each heating season, as I do get issues with fly ash. If the heat output is your trigger, then my spidey senses were bang on. Just seems odd to me that the cat can glow like a flashlight but be underwhelming in performance.

I can't say for certain exactly where I'm at for hours on this cat, but my best guess is between 8500-11,000.

Thanks

Like stoveliker stated above, I think you could keep running this one for awhile. If the smoke emissions haven't changed since the cat was fresh then the cat is likely still in good shape. I get blue smoke emissions every so often, I think it has to do with the cat opening and closing on its own and causing the fire to burp a bit. You will really know when the cat needs replacement, you'll see a lot more white smoke and need to use a higher thermostat setting to stay warm. This makes burn times go way down too.

Even more obvious than the lack of heat output as the cat dies is the increased smoke when running lower than medium output.

I'm so glad we are past using years as a method for determining if the cat is or should be alive. What a silly concept that was.

 

[ratsrepus]

I change mine every two years, as my stoves were installed a year apart, it works out to one a year. They both run 24-7.

 

[ratsrepus]

I'm so glad we are past using years as a method for determining if the cat is or should be alive. What a silly concept that was.

sorry highbeam, Im still on the yearly scale

 

[Highbeam]

sorry highbeam, Im still on the yearly scale

The way you are using it makes sense and almost guarantees that you will always have a healthy cat working for you.

 

[crstrode]

I'm having a difficult time finding a replacement combustor for my SC25 insert. I bought this insert new in October 2020 from Falco's in Spokane Valley WA.

The original equipment combustor is steel and the measured dimensions are about 13" x 2-1/2" x??"

The manual that came with the insert lists the part number as: 115.0335 with dimensions of 2.48" x13" x2"

It is still working fine now, but I want a spare just in case.

Please advise on my options for a new combustor for this insert.

 

[ratsrepus]

I'm having a difficult time finding a replacement combustor for my SC25 insert. I bought this insert new in October 2020 from Falco's in Spokane Valley WA.

The original equipment combustor is steel and the measured dimensions are about 13" x 2-1/2" x??"

The manual that came with the insert lists the part number as: 115.0335 with dimensions of 2.48" x13" x2"

It is still working fine now, but I want a spare just in case.

Please advise on my options for a new combustor for this insert.

Condar .com. thats where I get mine from, or Midwest Hearth

 

[ratsrepus]

sorry highbeam, Im still on the yearly scale

Im thinking if I keep the stov es running as efficiently as possible it will pay for itself it wood savings

 

[crstrode]

Condar .com. thats where I get mine from, or Midwest Hearth

Nope - they do not have the correct size - at least according to their website.

 

[jetsam]

I'm finding that pulling my cat regularly and giving it a distilled vinegar / distilled water rinse is helpful. I retired my first (ceramic) cat after about 12k hours, and its (steel) replacement is up to about 17k.

BKVP's story about the 10 year cat in his King has led me to decide to run this cat into the ground and see how long it takes!

 

[Highbeam]

I'm finding that pulling my cat regularly and giving it a distilled vinegar / distilled water rinse is helpful. I retired my first (ceramic) cat after about 12k hours, and its (steel) replacement is up to about 17k.

BKVP's story about the 10 year cat in his King has led me to decide to run this cat into the ground and see how long it takes!

Do it! The new one will feel that much better. You will really appreciate the difference.

 

[elmo_4_vt]

Finally have everything installed and should be ready for the first small fire tomorrow afternoon. Wish me luck. Don't mind the unpainted drywall in the back. We tore out a built-in propane fireplace that had a small vent out the back about 6' up. Getting the stove in was more important than painting at this point since we have to pain the entire room, 17' walls and all at some point this winter. Primer coming this weekend.

 

[Nealm66]

I can totally relate to the 2 year cycle. Not just to save wood but seems like a good summer project rather than mid winter. Although it would be cool to see how long it will go. 10 years seems like a lot. Does BKVP not have to burn that much?

 

[WoodFire89]

Good morning,

I have a Princess PE 32 (SN-28.1901) Purchased in 2020. This season i have started experiencing the smoke smell with cat engaged as discussed in the forum. I see a fix from Blaze King is to replace the stud & nut assembly holding the door glass in with a low-profile button head screw.

I am curious if this is applicable to the princess pe32 as well?

Last season i experienced no smell with good burn times and draft properties.
I have been researching and reading through the forums and other online chats to try and find some type of understanding or direction. The smell comes from the hinge side of the door (left side) with the smell very strong at the top left corner. Latch has been adjusted, dollar bill test performed, chimney inspected and cleaned, etc... all the suggested actions have been taken. it is a beautiful stove and heats very well, the smoke smell is concerning, from a safety standpoint.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

@BKVP

 

[BKVP]

@BKVP

Please let the fire go out. Open door and sandwich door between your knees. Then place the palm of both hands on either side of the glass. While squeezing the glass between your hands, check to see if the glass moves within the door frame. Try back and forth and up and down. Caution: you might lift door off hinges doing this, so be aware of this.

Advise.

BKVP

 

[jetsam]

Do it! The new one will feel that much better. You will really appreciate the difference.

That's got me thinking... if substrate flattening is the thing that eventually kills almost all (steel) cats- 1) A completely "dead" cat is still able to function at whatever the ratio is of surface area between a new one and a flat one, and 2) We could just start with a flat substrate if we had enough surface area to begin with. (Though it seems like the cat might be bigger than the stove in that case, and imagine taking THAT apart to clean it...)

So 3) Isn't there a higher-temp substrate out there? Maybe a rough ceramic surface would have sufficient surface area that we could just double the size of the cat and not suffer flattening?

Somebody write me a research grant!

 

[stoveliker]

It's not only the surface area. Also the active component: atomic scale (I think) palladium. Temperature makes that coagulate, and then you have big Of crystals which don't do the job.

This research has been done. Almost everything you touch has seen a catalyst in it's route to you. (Even if not always a gas-solid phase one.)

 

[Highbeam]

That's got me thinking... if substrate flattening is the thing that eventually kills almost all (steel) cats- 1) A completely "dead" cat is still able to function at whatever the ratio is of surface area between a new one and a flat one, and 2) We could just start with a flat substrate if we had enough surface area to begin with. (Though it seems like the cat might be bigger than the stove in that case, and imagine taking THAT apart to clean it...)

So 3) Isn't there a higher-temp substrate out there? Maybe a rough ceramic surface would have sufficient surface area that we could just double the size of the cat and not suffer flattening?

Somebody write me a research grant!

They tried the weird sponge looking catalysts. I’m not sure what kills a cat but they’re only supposed to last 10-12k hours so if I get that then I’m doing the best I can.

 

[Tron]

It's not only the surface area. Also the active component: atomic scale (I think) palladium. Temperature makes that coagulate, and then you have big Of crystals which don't do the job.

As a chemist, I can confirm. This is not only a problem with our stove cats, but much more so in large industrial chemical applications. Haber-Bosch-Process comes to mind here, but also a plethora of organic catalytic reactions.

I'd say the active metal in our cats is mostly palladium, but rhodium/platinum may be used as well (but probably more expensive). Don't nail me on that one, though.