New cat? I thought the stove's thermostat was supposed to protect against this, even when set wide open. The hypothesis that was mentioned was that the stove can't overfire.
2021-2022 BK everything thread
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So the question is whether a cat meter indicating a cat exhaust temperature above 1600 for even an instant is what the thermostat protects against.
As we know, reducing the intake setting can actually increase cat meter temperatures.
The thermostat doesn’t know what the cat meter is indicating, just what the actual stove temperature is.
The Tstat is too slow to prevent "an instant". Also, I think the overfiring protection that the Tstat provides is applicable to the stove (metal) integrity - which is generally an issue that has to do more with operation that is persistently too hot (as in half an hour or so). The cat is more sensitive to shorter time excursions that go over the limit. (But also here, the budget (the nine lives) is dictated by both temperature and time. The budget is just smaller than for the metal stove itself.)
I.e., I do think it is possible to kill a cat (sic) more easily than to kill the (metal) stove by making the parts too hot.
"The actual stove temperature" does not exist as it's too variable for the different locations.
I.e., I do think it is possible to kill a cat (sic) more easily than to kill the (metal) stove by making the parts too hot.
"The actual stove temperature" does not exist as it's too variable for the different locations.
Cat on its 4th (part-time) year. Naturally, I am not an expert. The only thing I can compare to is my sliver view of my VC cat’s colour (bright orange/yellow) and the Auber reading 1600. Last eve the BK colour was very much the same looking. Simple answer will be, I will bring the digital meter to the lake next time.
I am also concerned about the flames hitting the cat while in full blast (bypass closed) flames really lick the cat. Is that ok? In the clip posted earlier it say no no?
I am also concerned about the flames hitting the cat while in full blast (bypass closed) flames really lick the cat. Is that ok? In the clip posted earlier it say no no?
I wondered about the flames licking the cat too.
Humans are notoriously bad at seeing a temperature someplace, seeing a color in another place, and then comparing them. A lot depends on the total light intensity (pupil dilation).
How tall was your chimney? Would a damper be useful? (I.e. is your draft above the specced range?)
Humans are notoriously bad at seeing a temperature someplace, seeing a color in another place, and then comparing them. A lot depends on the total light intensity (pupil dilation).
How tall was your chimney? Would a damper be useful? (I.e. is your draft above the specced range?)
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
BKVP
Minister of Fire
1600F is a threshold temperature when the washcoat begins to flatten out. It requires repeated exposure to significantly reduce efficacy. Thermal degradation usually applies to the substrate itself. Metal monolith substrates can tolerate much higher temperatures than 1600F. Ceramic substrates can as well, but suffer thermal fracturing when metal do not.
During the last 10 to 15 minutes of initial high burn I have to pay attention I don't go past the active burn, my stove is only a couple months old still so maybe that's why. I was hoping I was worried to much but sounds like it is pretty bad to go over now. I've also noticed that if I look at cat on high burn the cat isn't super bright when it's past active zone, even has dull areas sometimes until I turn it down then it turns super bright and the cat meter will will drop into active zone? Seems strange dull looking cat is that hot
chemie
Feeling the Heat
Hi All,
I was a newbie at the forum and got a lot of help from you guys. I’ve been away from it for a long time with pandemic and all but will check more often.
I was a newbie at the forum and got a lot of help from you guys. I’ve been away from it for a long time with pandemic and all but will check more often.
New Sirocco. First few burns I felt no click when closing the bypass. Then shortly thereafter I felt some resistance at the end of the closing. Now it seem that I have to push down hard on the lever to close at the end (it clunks) and also use considerable force to open when first opening. Do I have a problem or am I overly concerned?
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
Nealm66
Minister of Fire
Hey guys. I pulled 52 hours last week in the four days I was 'allowed' to work, I am not keeping up good.
1. "char" and "bake" as I think of them are two different processes. A split on your rack in the garage has esentially infinite surface area with all the little hairs and so on. Once a split is charred, thoroughly black, you can measure say 16 x 4 x 3 inches and say you have 192 sqin on fire on the one face of the one split. When that same split first went into the stove it had infinity surface area and gave off a relative fornication ton of smoke when it first lit off. Once it is thoroughly charred, the smoke output is based on the 192 sqin actively burning.
Char is what you do with the bypass door open so the cat doesn't choke. Bake is what you do after the load is charred, bypass door closed and Tstat on high to get the remaining water (as vapor) out of the wood and out of the stack before you turn the Tstat down, to minimize creo-sicles.
For the hemlock, MC is key. I have talked to Chris ( @BKVP ) about this a couple times. BK bought me one beer through Chris and I later got a second beer purchased by my local dealer at Chris' direction. So two beers lifetime already, we talked about max Tstat and MC of the load both times, no more free beer for me until until my local dealer has a new owner. If Chris is buying, order the most expensive beer on the menu, he can afford Lowenbrau.
Nationwide, most burners, no matter who made their stove, can just barely get to 20% MC, and that is what modern woodstoves are designed to burn. The cutoff for BK stoves (seems) is around 12-13% MC. If you got 12% MC fuel you can _probably_ finish your bake out in less than 30 minutes and turn down a bit sooner than the folks running 20%MC fuel. You will need a flue gas probe, the kind that requires drilling a hole in your telecope to be sure. If you are sitting on multiple cords at 12% MC or less, drop Chris a PM and he will hook you up with one of his engineers. It is a total pain in the neck to burn this stuff. My annual target is 14%MC.
If your hemlock or other fuel is at 13%MC or above, wide open raging, you aren't hurting the stove, you are looking at what I live with every January. My target fuel is 14% MC and I have no problem running load after load after load at wide open throttle week after week in the depths of my winter. Four hour burn time? Reload. Combustor the color of a theoretical celestial object but you are down to a few coals? Reload. Wife in spandex pants that reach her ankles? Reload. If your fuel is at or above 13%MC you will not hurt the stove running at wide open Tstat for weeks at a time. If you have multiple cords at 12% or less reach out to BKVP for further instuction.
1. "char" and "bake" as I think of them are two different processes. A split on your rack in the garage has esentially infinite surface area with all the little hairs and so on. Once a split is charred, thoroughly black, you can measure say 16 x 4 x 3 inches and say you have 192 sqin on fire on the one face of the one split. When that same split first went into the stove it had infinity surface area and gave off a relative fornication ton of smoke when it first lit off. Once it is thoroughly charred, the smoke output is based on the 192 sqin actively burning.
Char is what you do with the bypass door open so the cat doesn't choke. Bake is what you do after the load is charred, bypass door closed and Tstat on high to get the remaining water (as vapor) out of the wood and out of the stack before you turn the Tstat down, to minimize creo-sicles.
For the hemlock, MC is key. I have talked to Chris ( @BKVP ) about this a couple times. BK bought me one beer through Chris and I later got a second beer purchased by my local dealer at Chris' direction. So two beers lifetime already, we talked about max Tstat and MC of the load both times, no more free beer for me until until my local dealer has a new owner. If Chris is buying, order the most expensive beer on the menu, he can afford Lowenbrau.
Nationwide, most burners, no matter who made their stove, can just barely get to 20% MC, and that is what modern woodstoves are designed to burn. The cutoff for BK stoves (seems) is around 12-13% MC. If you got 12% MC fuel you can _probably_ finish your bake out in less than 30 minutes and turn down a bit sooner than the folks running 20%MC fuel. You will need a flue gas probe, the kind that requires drilling a hole in your telecope to be sure. If you are sitting on multiple cords at 12% MC or less, drop Chris a PM and he will hook you up with one of his engineers. It is a total pain in the neck to burn this stuff. My annual target is 14%MC.
If your hemlock or other fuel is at 13%MC or above, wide open raging, you aren't hurting the stove, you are looking at what I live with every January. My target fuel is 14% MC and I have no problem running load after load after load at wide open throttle week after week in the depths of my winter. Four hour burn time? Reload. Combustor the color of a theoretical celestial object but you are down to a few coals? Reload. Wife in spandex pants that reach her ankles? Reload. If your fuel is at or above 13%MC you will not hurt the stove running at wide open Tstat for weeks at a time. If you have multiple cords at 12% or less reach out to BKVP for further instuction.
Might be worth a visit to a local BK dealer. If you let go of the bypass lever and let the door close by gravity it is closed but not latched. You want to latch it.
Niko
Minister of Fire
First off glad to be back have not posted in a long time so I hope everyone is doing ok.
Any video or a better explanation of the bypass door gasket replacement then what I have read from BK website?
Any video or a better explanation of the bypass door gasket replacement then what I have read from BK website?
ratsrepus
Minister of Fire
i think you were going to figure out how to remove the bypass flapper? hows that going ?
Looks like it's time for to replace the door gasket again. I've been limping by fluffing the gasket, I think the last gasket I got from my dealer wasn't a high density, came off a roll. I'm dreading removing the copious amount of silicone I used to bed it down. HA.
Can anyone confirm if Helcher's is selling the actual 7/8" high density gasket?
Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving, it's been a while since I have been on!
Can anyone confirm if Helcher's is selling the actual 7/8" high density gasket?
Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving, it's been a while since I have been on!
I won’t attempt bypass plate removal until the cat is out due to wear which won’t happen until sometime in 2023!
I’ve got a lot of cycles on the bypass gasket so I’m curious about why or whether it ever needs to be changed.
Well I just did the double wall interior pipe you recommended and so far and it's a night and day difference for the water condensation in my chimney, thanks highbeam I new I should of replaced the single wall but you saying it spurred me on.
Niko
Minister of Fire
Well haven't changed it since I bought the stove.. I fired up the stove a coue of weeks ago and pretty much everything is going good until like in not sure the exact hours maybe 2-4 hours later and the cat is in the inactive zone. So today I disconnected everything from the stove and when I had the bypass open I saw the gasket and just thought of changing it. But what I noticed also is the bypass door when closed actually had a little play in. If I took my hand I could actually lift up on it a smidge, but I adjusted the screw on it and made her snugg so no movement. I also took the steel cat out to inspect it. The steel cat only has 2 or 3 seasons on it and seem to have crowned a little as a 2x4 of lumber does. I put high temp gasket around the opening of the cat and gasket to give it a better seal as I could see more of a opening towards the bottom where the side had a better seal to it.
Fired the stove back up a little later and same chit cat dies out after a couple of hours. Door gasket looks good put the dollar bill test passed everywhere except the side closest to the 2 hinges. It's not loosey goosey but she does pull out.
I guess a door gasket is next.
How many cords do you burn per season? For some 2-3 seasons is about the life of a cat.
I.e. are you sure it's something with the stove rather than the cat?
I.e. are you sure it's something with the stove rather than the cat?
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