Agreed 100%. ^^^^^. In addition if you over fire the stove , the cat will crumble like in the picture. Please describe your daily burning routine and maybe we can help. That cat should last 2/3 seasons if you are burning full time Oct to May.
2020/21 VC Owners thread
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I did not notice @Dobish was mia. We all tend to come and go from here. I have not lit neither of my stoves since latter part of Jan. Yet, I still check here regularly...especially in the “gear” forum. This place is addictive.....as addictive as some of the car forums.
I was wondering if thermal shock might have been the issue, but I made sure with this last one to get is started really slow. I had a nice and slow fire going in bypass mode and let it slowly creep up to the upper range of the flue therm.
after it went back down to the bottom range again (at least a good 4hrs cycle) I closed the bypass off about halfway for half an hour ( it has a sweet spot there where it will hang up a bit) before I closed it completely with the temp just falling below the operating range of the flue therm.
that’s when I heard the distinctive snap that I felt was the catalyst break.
I love the look of this stove! But If I have to figure in to each season replace the catalyst on top of the high purchase price it is becoming a pretty expensive hobby. And much too complicated for the mrs. to operate decently.
after it went back down to the bottom range again (at least a good 4hrs cycle) I closed the bypass off about halfway for half an hour ( it has a sweet spot there where it will hang up a bit) before I closed it completely with the temp just falling below the operating range of the flue therm.
that’s when I heard the distinctive snap that I felt was the catalyst break.
I love the look of this stove! But If I have to figure in to each season replace the catalyst on top of the high purchase price it is becoming a pretty expensive hobby. And much too complicated for the mrs. to operate decently.
Burn routine : I’m here in Arkansas, we have a burning season from beginning of dec through beginning of march. From Christmas through Valentines day it might be running constantly. I have the 1975 Defiant 2in1 with the stock catalyst thermometer and 8” single wall stove pipe (with a magnetic flue thermometer) up to the 8’ ceiling thereafter it runs into double wall insulated chimney pipe. Only about 3ft higher than the recommended chimney height, no elbows and never had a draft issue.
in the morning there is a decent bed of embers, scraping it up a little bit to expose the glowing ones we fill it with some smaller pieces to let it catch back on. Most of the time I will then clean out the bottom ash tray which will be about halfway filled, with still quite some ash left in the burn chamber. After the fire picks up we fill in with some larger logs, Oak splits that are about the width of the burn chamber. I do not have a moisture meter but have been burning my whole life and this is good and dry ( in a covered woodshed for at least 3 years).
after burning it in bypass mode it will get up to the upper 3rd of the flue therm. for about 90mins (time to take the kids to school) and turning it to CAT mode. After about 10mins closing the air about 1/4th. And keep it like this for a few hours. When refill is needed, and the flue temp will fall to right below operating temp, open up air, bypass open and fill the fire chamber about 3/4ths. After the flue temp gets once again to the upper edge and we have decent flames/glow going we turn the cat on again. This is basically what we keep on doing.
looking at the cat therm, with the flue at the top end for at leat 2 hrs, the needle is just barely in the “operate cat” silver area. Stove feels hot, but not excessive.
in my view this stove could also really use a bit more air, the primary air valve works, I can see clearly a difference with moving the lever especially in bypass mode. But I can only open the top lid to refill a single piece at a time, if I leave it open to get another log to put in second it already is an inferno in there where there are almost too much flames to lower the second log with a welding glove on.
I seem to be getting a bit more consistent and longer burn if I mix in some greenish wood that is about a year seasoned or pieces that have been cut 2 years ago but freshly split.
I have been thinking about putting in the elec cat thermometer but I am not fond of the bright electronic display.
this stove was bought new from a dealer 3 years ago and we have it going for our second burn season now.
in the morning there is a decent bed of embers, scraping it up a little bit to expose the glowing ones we fill it with some smaller pieces to let it catch back on. Most of the time I will then clean out the bottom ash tray which will be about halfway filled, with still quite some ash left in the burn chamber. After the fire picks up we fill in with some larger logs, Oak splits that are about the width of the burn chamber. I do not have a moisture meter but have been burning my whole life and this is good and dry ( in a covered woodshed for at least 3 years).
after burning it in bypass mode it will get up to the upper 3rd of the flue therm. for about 90mins (time to take the kids to school) and turning it to CAT mode. After about 10mins closing the air about 1/4th. And keep it like this for a few hours. When refill is needed, and the flue temp will fall to right below operating temp, open up air, bypass open and fill the fire chamber about 3/4ths. After the flue temp gets once again to the upper edge and we have decent flames/glow going we turn the cat on again. This is basically what we keep on doing.
looking at the cat therm, with the flue at the top end for at leat 2 hrs, the needle is just barely in the “operate cat” silver area. Stove feels hot, but not excessive.
in my view this stove could also really use a bit more air, the primary air valve works, I can see clearly a difference with moving the lever especially in bypass mode. But I can only open the top lid to refill a single piece at a time, if I leave it open to get another log to put in second it already is an inferno in there where there are almost too much flames to lower the second log with a welding glove on.
I seem to be getting a bit more consistent and longer burn if I mix in some greenish wood that is about a year seasoned or pieces that have been cut 2 years ago but freshly split.
I have been thinking about putting in the elec cat thermometer but I am not fond of the bright electronic display.
this stove was bought new from a dealer 3 years ago and we have it going for our second burn season now.
RandyBoBandy
Minister of Fire
This is interesting. I think I’m on my third season with the same cat. I don’t know anything about the 2in1 so I can’t speculate on its design. I would still invest in a moisture meter however. What does your glass look like? Black or does it stay clean?
Hm, my only comment is that 90 mins with the bypass open after reloading seems like a really long time! Is there any wood left after that? Haha anyway I don't think that should cause thermal shock. Maybe, if the flue temperature is really in the upper third of the operating range (around 800F?) then it could cause the cat to heat up too fast. But the more common cause of thermal shock is from cooling it down too rapidly.
For what it's worth, I usually close my bypass damper as soon as the flue temperature hits 500-600 degrees.
For what it's worth, I usually close my bypass damper as soon as the flue temperature hits 500-600 degrees.
If I close the air to half or less for the overnight burn the windows will be pitch black by morning time. It burns them clean again easily enough, and the stove would have cooled off far enough by then too that a quick wipe gets them clear.
the chimney stays pretty clear though, only issue that I’ve had with that is the cap-screen clogging up but that’s probably just the weakest link in the chimney system with it cooling off too easy.
the chimney stays pretty clear though, only issue that I’ve had with that is the cap-screen clogging up but that’s probably just the weakest link in the chimney system with it cooling off too easy.
It is difficult to say what is going on with your system. 90min in bypass mode is definitely not right. With dry wood you should be closing the bypass in 15min on average. Replacing cats every three months does not sound correct. A cat should last about 3 seasons under 24/7 operation. Normal operation that is. Black glass when 1/2 closed and dirty cap screen also does not sound correct. Perhaps it is time to invest in a moisture meter.
RandyBoBandy
Minister of Fire
What diabel said. I pretty much close my primary all the way for over night burns and my glass is never black. Only when I load it with questionable wood. What stove are you coming from? Older “smoke dragons” are a lot more forgiving when it comes to wet wood. Anything measuring over 20% moisture content is going to be frustrating to burn in any modern stove. Oak is a tricky one to get below 20%. Even though it’s been CSS. I’ve had white oak css for 3 years in a covered car port still hiss and piss when put in the stove. It’s time for a moisture meter my friend.
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
I agree with what your saying. Air half way glass should be clean. 90 minutes of free burn in my stove and it would be glowing and warped for sure.
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
I'm thinking wet wood on this one and the cat is getting thermal shock when the damper is closed after 90 minutes, maybe also that once the wood cooks off the cat temp is to high. 1600+ degrees on a cat a couple of times and it will crumble for sure. Iv cooked my cat to death a couple times with the bimetal cat probe because.. who really knew it was getting that hot..back then.. it looked good to me..lol
Hey again guys,
Well, it has been a few weeks of excellent and consistent burning thanks to your valuable help. Managed to find better seasoned wood to get us through the rest of the season and the new catalyst is working great. New issue, however:
Last night after loading my Defiant Encore #2190 for the all night burn, as I’m laying there in bed I hear a CLUNK downstairs. I go check things out and I noticed that the damper handle is in the open position. I had noticed the same thing one morning previously and thought that maybe somehow we had forgotten to close it. Luckily, the primary is always closed 2/3 for the night burn.
The damper handle has never “locked” into place and the most that it can be turned to the rear, even with pretty good force, is to about the 8:00 o’clock position, maybe 7:30. It has always been that way with this stove and while turning the handle there has always been a healthy, but smooth amount of resistance until the point at which the handle stops, so I always thought that things were working as they should. What I had not noticed previously and so don’t know if it has always been this way or not, is that once the damper is closed (handle at 7:30-8) and staying closed, even very light downward pressure on the handle will cause the damper to swing open again. Some research here tells me that the handle should move to the 9:00 position. I have also found some conflicting comments about there being a distinct locking sound “click” when the handle reaches the 9:00 position.
Should there be a “lock” at the end of the movement of the handle and what is the best way to diagnose the problem? I have also read some conflicting (to me) comments as to whether I need to remove the Left side plate or the flue collar to view and access the mechanism. The manual doesn’t address this issue. Any information and pointers about what to do to correct this problem would be greatly appreciated, as always.
Best to all.
Well, it has been a few weeks of excellent and consistent burning thanks to your valuable help. Managed to find better seasoned wood to get us through the rest of the season and the new catalyst is working great. New issue, however:
Last night after loading my Defiant Encore #2190 for the all night burn, as I’m laying there in bed I hear a CLUNK downstairs. I go check things out and I noticed that the damper handle is in the open position. I had noticed the same thing one morning previously and thought that maybe somehow we had forgotten to close it. Luckily, the primary is always closed 2/3 for the night burn.
The damper handle has never “locked” into place and the most that it can be turned to the rear, even with pretty good force, is to about the 8:00 o’clock position, maybe 7:30. It has always been that way with this stove and while turning the handle there has always been a healthy, but smooth amount of resistance until the point at which the handle stops, so I always thought that things were working as they should. What I had not noticed previously and so don’t know if it has always been this way or not, is that once the damper is closed (handle at 7:30-8) and staying closed, even very light downward pressure on the handle will cause the damper to swing open again. Some research here tells me that the handle should move to the 9:00 position. I have also found some conflicting comments about there being a distinct locking sound “click” when the handle reaches the 9:00 position.
Should there be a “lock” at the end of the movement of the handle and what is the best way to diagnose the problem? I have also read some conflicting (to me) comments as to whether I need to remove the Left side plate or the flue collar to view and access the mechanism. The manual doesn’t address this issue. Any information and pointers about what to do to correct this problem would be greatly appreciated, as always.
Best to all.
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Maybe someone else with a 2190 will chime in, but my 2040 is the opposite. The handle is on the left side of the stove. 8:00 or "back" corresponds to the open/bypass mode, and 4:00 or "forward" is closed/cat mode. I get a locking click when I pull the handle forward, but not back. Yes there should be some kind of cam action that holds the damper closed after you close it.
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
Hows every one making out.. getting near the end of the season. didnt burn at all last week. and I'm having a once a day fire now.
Got down to 12 the last two nights so I've been burning steadily but it looks like it'll warm up later this week. Started in on my last stack of hardwood for this year.
Spring is definitely in the air up here. But still getting overnight temps in the teens and occasionally the single digits. Then, up to the low 50’s and sunny in the afternoon. I’ve been doing an overnight burn and feeding a little again in the morning. With the sun steaming in in the afternoons, that’s enough to keep the house in the low 70’s until the evening.
Still hoping to get some thoughts on the damper issue above.
Best to all.
Still hoping to get some thoughts on the damper issue above.
Best to all.
Have not had a fire in neither of the stoves since more less mid Jan.
as for the damper opening on its own. My buddy has a vc encore 2190 I believe (the one that came out before the 2550). That stove would do the same once in a while. We adjusted a screw that is at the back of the damper (you can reach it vis the flue only). It helped. Eventually, he ended up replacing the damper assembly.
as for the damper opening on its own. My buddy has a vc encore 2190 I believe (the one that came out before the 2550). That stove would do the same once in a while. We adjusted a screw that is at the back of the damper (you can reach it vis the flue only). It helped. Eventually, he ended up replacing the damper assembly.
I have a new VC Dauntless and the same thing is happening to my stove damper handle. i had them come and "Fix" it but it sill happens occasionally. it doesnt actually open the damper but the hadle clunks loose.the nut in the middle of the damper is what you need to mess with to get it right.
Thanks a lot, guys. Another Spring project. I replaced all gaskets two years ago except the damper gasket. When I remove the flue collar, will I be able to get to the gasket as well? Thanks!
RandyBoBandy
Minister of Fire
Last week I went to one of the local stove stores and bought an Intrepid Felxburn in the brown enamel. I wanted the dauntless, but the opening of my fireplace is too short. The Intrepid should help out with the outrageous oil bills next year.
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
No this will be a first for me. The previous owner of the house had a Jotul Series 3 that he took when he moved. The chimney is lined and the installer is coming out Friday to inspect everything.
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
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