2020/21 VC Owners thread

[RandyBoBandy]

A fire inside a metal box in one‘s home is too important/potentially dangerous for ego to be in the mix. You guys have been a tremendous help and I’m still learning. My hopefully realistic goal is to eventually cut my own wood on my rather large property and that could use some thinning out and get my wood supply under control. Daunting but potentially fun way for someone from the city and looking at retirement in a couple of years to spend his time; good exercise, anyway. A question Re cat probe if I may. In a previous response you wrote:

***Most of us VC guys are using the Auber Instruments AT 100 digital thermometer. They only offer a 6” K-type probe so if you are using the rear heat shield you will need to drill a hole in it. Another option is to go to condar’s website and just buy their probe which is only 4” and will fit behind the heat shield.***

I‘m not opposed to drilling into the heat shield, but does your comment mean that with the 4” Condar one does not have to drill into the shield? Any details would be appreciated.

Thank you all once again!

Correct. I had a condar digital probe thermo before I bought the AT100 so I already had the K-type probe which is only 4” long and fits behind the heat shield without having to drill holes in it. However if you were just looking for a one stop shop it’s also not a big deal to just drill a quick hole in the shield to run the 6” probe through. I have noticed condar has a new model digital thermo called the watchman or watchdog. I’m not sure. I haven’t heard anything about it on here so I’m not sure on it’s quality. The At100 is great for the price and will do exactly what you need it to.

 

[jlggomez]

I hope you guys aren’t sick of me yet. A couple of additional questions about something I’m still not clear about, please.

OK, per your suggestion Randy I’m waiting for flue temp to hit 600 before closing the damper with the primary wide open. After closing the damper the temp, having been on its way up, will continue to rise to maybe 650 and then will start dropping. It then settles at around 425-450 with a griddle temp of 500 or so. I can then close the primary half way and the flue settles at 400 and the griddle remains at 500-550. as long as there is enough fuel in the box. This method seems to work well and you guys previously mentioned that this was all normal behavior. My concern and question:

For an overnight burn I will do a full reload and close the primary about 2/3. In the morning, after about seven+ hours there will still be fuel in the box, big chunks of burning coals. However, the flue temperature will have settled at 200 or slightly higher with a griddle temp of around 325-350. Since the cat needs a 600 flue temp to activate, does a flue temp of 200 mean that the cat has stopped working? Or, is it still working, but at reduced capacity? If it has stopped working, about what temperature needs to be maintained for continuous operation? The concern is creosote buildup.

Randy, re the Condar 4” cat probe. Not sure I understand where “behind the heat shield“ it is attached without having to drill a hole. I assume you mean the rear heat shield? The only opening of any kind back there is the vent (?) along the bottom of the secondary air control cover plate. What am I missing?

Thanks all, once again for your patience and great advice.

 

[Diabel]

Experiment with closing the primary air, a bit less than 2/3 and see in the morning if the chunks are still there or just burnt ash. Also, these chunks no longer produce any creo. after 7h burn.

at the back of your stove maybe 1 1/2” above the secondary air intake you will find a small metal cap . Slightly bigger that the probe diam. Once you remove that, you will be able to insert the probe. In this threat you will find instructions on installing/inserting the cat probe.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

OK, per your suggestion Randy I’m waiting for flue temp to hit 600 before closing the damper with the primary wide open.
500-600 is good. 600 works best for me. Once you install your cat probe you can adjust your procedure.
After closing the damper the temp, having been on its way up, will continue to rise to maybe 650 and then will start dropping. It then settles at around 425-450 with a griddle temp of 500 or so. I can then close the primary half way and the flue settles at 400 and the griddle remains at 500-550. as long as there is enough fuel in the box. This method seems to work well and you guys previously mentioned that this was all normal behavior.
yes this is all normal behavior

For an overnight burn I will do a full reload and close the primary about 2/3. In the morning, after about seven+ hours there will still be fuel in the box, big chunks of burning coals. However, the flue temperature will have settled at 200 or slightly higher with a griddle temp of around 325-350. Since the cat needs a 600 flue temp to activate, does a flue temp of 200 mean that the cat has stopped working?
the cat is inactive at this point but that is fine. There is nothing for it do anymore because everything is far into the coaling stage.
Or, is it still working, but at reduced capacity? If it has stopped working, about what temperature needs to be maintained for continuous operation? The concern is creosote buildup.
everything is fine. No creo this far into a burn.
Randy, re the Condar 4” cat probe. Not sure I understand where “behind the heat shield“ it is attached without having to drill a hole. I assume you mean the rear heat shield? The only opening of any kind back there is the vent (?) along the bottom of the secondary air control cover plate. What am I missing?
like diabel stated, there is a silver looking button just above the secondary air. Pop this off with a flathead. Take a drill bit that matches the diameter of the probe. I believe the condar probe is 1/4” with the Auber probe possibly slightly smaller. Just measure with a vaneer caliper if you have one. BY HAND gently drill a hole through the refractory box being careful not to go through the front of the refractory box as well. DO NOT USE A DRILL. just a bit. Insert your probe being mindful to not have it touch the front of the box. This may throw off temp accuracy. Presto. You are done. I left the secondary cover off mine and used a file clip to hold the wire to the stove so it doesn’t move around much. Reinstall your rear heat shield and enjoy knowing exactly what’s going on with the cat. This will probably lead to you modifying or completely blocking your secondary like slot of us have done already but that’s a topic for later discussion. First get your cat probe as soon as possible. It is a crucial element in the longevity of your cat.

Thanks all, once again for your patience and great advice.

 

[jlggomez]

As always, awesome info. Thank you both; your help continues to be invaluable.

I thought the little cap was a bolt of some kind. The cat probe is in the mail. After install, if you don’t mind I will report back. I would love to hear about “blocking the secondary” and the benefits of that. Re temps and creosote: got it, that all makes sense. I feel much more comfortable about it now. I have been very concerned about this ever since I saw what came out of my chimney after having it swept a few weeks ago.

Best wishes to all!

BTW, having been driving my wife crazy with all this for days, she wants to send you guys a bottle of wine )

 

[Diabel]

As always, awesome info. Thank you both; your help continues to be invaluable.

I thought the little cap was a bolt of some kind. The cat probe is in the mail. After install, if you don’t mind I will report back. I would love to hear about “blocking the secondary” and the benefits of that. Re temps and creosote: got it, that all makes sense. I feel much more comfortable about it now. I have been very concerned about this ever since I saw what came out of my chimney after having it swept a few weeks ago.

Best wishes to all!

BTW, having been driving my wife crazy with all this for days, she wants to send you guys a bottle of wine )

Address pm’d!

 

[Russn77]

BTW, having been driving my wife crazy with all this for days, she wants to send you guys a bottle of wine )

LOL. Same here. We're still stove shopping and with our restricted hearth, its been difficult. I've been doing crazy amounts of research driving the wife crazy. This site has been extremely helpful. One of the stoves we're looking at is the Dauntless. If we end up going with it, the information in this thread is INVALUABLE.

 

[jlggomez]

LOL. Same here. We're still stove shopping and with our restricted hearth, its been difficult. I've been doing crazy amounts of research driving the wife crazy. This site has been extremely helpful. One of the stoves we're looking at is the Dauntless. If we end up going with it, the information in this thread is INVALUABLE.

 

[Nateencore]

I have a VC Encore that is a few years old at this point, I burn appx 3-4 days/wk. I am still trying to figure out efficiency on this stove.
One question I have is whether the catalyst chamber, visible through two slits in the back wall of the fire box, is supposed to glow red. Is this indicative of operation or can the catalyst be properly operating with no color or flame visible in the chamber (assuming the catalyst is up to temp as indicated by the temp dial on the back of the stove).

the catalyst chamber will glow red holding a nice temp of 500 and putting off good heat.

Thanks in advance for helping a newbie. VC won’t even return my call/email...they tell me to contact a local dealer (who didn’t even understand my question).

 

[Diabel]

Welcome to the forum.

perhaps mods can move this thread to VC 2020-21 thread. Lots of info there. One of the first questions you will encounter is details of your set up (chimney, thermometers etc).

 

[gthomas785]

I have a VC Encore that is a few years old at this point, I burn appx 3-4 days/wk. I am still trying to figure out efficiency on this stove.
One question I have is whether the catalyst chamber, visible through two slits in the back wall of the fire box, is supposed to glow red. Is this indicative of operation or can the catalyst be properly operating with no color or flame visible in the chamber (assuming the catalyst is up to temp as indicated by the temp dial on the back of the stove).

the catalyst chamber will glow red holding a nice temp of 500 and putting off good heat.

Thanks in advance for helping a newbie. VC won’t even return my call/email...they tell me to contact a local dealer (who didn’t even understand my question).

Yes, that is fairly normal. Although I have never seen it glow at 500, usually closer to 1000-1100 is when I see it start to glow. Is that 500 a cat temp or stovetop temps?

The whole cement piece on the front can glow sometimes if I'm pushing the stove hard.

The cat can also be active without glowing, and the best way to tell is by the cat thermometer and looking at what's coming out of the chimney.

 

[Jimmy C]

Wow, missed a lot on here over the last couple weeks. Don't want to take away from new people looking for help (been there), but I've noticed something over the past week and wanted to share/ get some opinions.

I've had some problems with over firing on some full loads and I could not figure out why. I would get the stove closed down at a decent temp and then get a spike 30 mins later that would often go into high 1600's and sometimes even over 1800 (usually I would open bypass if I see this happen). Anyway, lately some of my wood is not quite fully seasoned so I've been mixing with some well seasoned stuff, which has been working out. It caused me to start closing down the primary air differently, usually leaving it only 2/3 closed, other wise cat temps would start falling off drastically and I would lose flames in the box.

However, this has caused me to notice something else. Leaving the primary air at 2/3 usually keeps me between 1250 - 1450. In the past, if the temp settled at 1300 or so then starts rising after 20 mins, I would start closing down air more. Often ending up with it all the way closed, this usually slowed the rising temp. But I think this was also causing too much smoke to go though the CAT after a while and actually over firing, having the opposite effect intended. It feels strange to me to be leaving the air open this much, but I think its the correct way to run the stove. I was always worried my stove temp would spike but even with it 1/2 open, it never gets above 600. Usually now I am cruising with cat temp 1250 - 1450 and griddle top around 500.

Let me know your thoughts....

 

[gthomas785]

Wow, missed a lot on here over the last couple weeks. Don't want to take away from new people looking for help (been there), but I've noticed something over the past week and wanted to share/ get some opinions.

I've had some problems with over firing on some full loads and I could not figure out why. I would get the stove closed down at a decent temp and then get a spike 30 mins later that would often go into high 1600's and sometimes even over 1800 (usually I would open bypass if I see this happen). Anyway, lately some of my wood is not quite fully seasoned so I've been mixing with some well seasoned stuff, which has been working out. It caused me to start closing down the primary air differently, usually leaving it only 2/3 closed, other wise cat temps would start falling off drastically and I would lose flames in the box.

However, this has caused me to notice something else. Leaving the primary air at 2/3 usually keeps me between 1250 - 1450. In the past, if the temp settled at 1300 or so then starts rising after 20 mins, I would start closing down air more. Often ending up with it all the way closed, this usually slowed the rising temp. But I think this was also causing too much smoke to go though the CAT after a while and actually over firing, having the opposite effect intended. It feels strange to me to be leaving the air open this much, but I think its the correct way to run the stove. I was always worried my stove temp would spike but even with it 1/2 open, it never gets above 600. Usually now I am cruising with cat temp 1250 - 1450 and griddle top around 500.

Let me know your thoughts....

That matches with my experience. Closing down the air causes cat temps to spike, and it's worse with damp wood. And I think your assessment that it's caused by excess smoke production is spot on. Leaving the primary open results in cleaner primary burn, so less fuel for the cat.

 

[Nateencore]

Yes, that is fairly normal. Although I have never seen it glow at 500, usually closer to 1000-1100 is when I see it start to glow. Is that 500 a cat temp or stovetop temps?

The whole cement piece on the front can glow sometimes if I'm pushing the stove hard.

The cat can also be active without glowing, and the best way to tell is by the cat thermometer and looking at what's coming out of the chimney.

Thanks very much good to know. The 500 is stovetop temp. I don’t have temps on my cat thermometer, just a “operate catalyst” zone .

 

[gthomas785]

Thanks very much good to know. The 500 is stovetop temp. I don’t have temps on my cat thermometer, just a “operate catalyst” zone .

Yeah I have that probe too. It's approximate, but at one point I figured out that the operate catalyst range goes from about 500 to 1600 F.

 

[Rusty18]

Well I feel cheated...
Picked up a soot eater kit from Menards a few weeks ago and have been waiting on the snow to melt so I could get to the chimney. This is my third winter burning straight pine and there’s not even enough in the stack to get the eater dirty (maybe 1.5 cords, been waiting on it to season)
I did run it in the horizontal pipe from the back of the stove to the adapter box where it 90’s and goes to the clay tile. And yes the pic has been sent to all the neighbors that keep telling me pine is gonna cause the house to spontaneously explode.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Well I feel cheated...
Picked up a soot eater kit from Menards a few weeks ago and have been waiting on the snow to melt so I could get to the chimney. This is my third winter burning straight pine and there’s not even enough in the stack to get the eater dirty (maybe 1.5 cords, been waiting on it to season)
I did run it in the horizontal pipe from the back of the stove to the adapter box where it 90’s and goes to the clay tile. And yes the pic has been sent to all the neighbors that keep telling me pine is gonna cause the house to spontaneously explode.
View attachment 275066

yes.. the rumors are so true.. these VC stoves burn so dirty...lol

 

[Dobish]

i have had very few fires this year. due to our stair remodel project that is taking longer than expected, we moved out for a few months. i don't even think I will get through more than a cord this year, especially since I have a very large pile of 2x4 that i now have to burn

 

[Woodsplitter67]

i have had very few fires this year. due to our stair remodel project that is taking longer than expected, we moved out for a few months. i don't even think I will get through more than a cord this year, especially since I have a very large pile of 2x4 that i now have to burn

I will burn about the same as.last year. I have already processed what I have burned so far. I am definitely will be burning less. I'm down to one fire a day instead of all.day. I have already skipped some days and haven't burned at all. The forecast for next week is looking a bit warmer so I dont see myself burning every day next week neither.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

i have had very few fires this year. due to our stair remodel project that is taking longer than expected, we moved out for a few months. i don't even think I will get through more than a cord this year, especially since I have a very large pile of 2x4 that i now have to burn

Was wondering where you ran off to. Was starting think everyone was leaving. @Ashful has been radio silent as well and he is usually a pretty active participant of this forum. It’s got to be painful not being able to burn the stove all winter.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

I have a VC Encore that is a few years old at this point, I burn appx 3-4 days/wk. I am still trying to figure out efficiency on this stove.
One question I have is whether the catalyst chamber, visible through two slits in the back wall of the fire box, is supposed to glow red. Is this indicative of operation or can the catalyst be properly operating with no color or flame visible in the chamber (assuming the catalyst is up to temp as indicated by the temp dial on the back of the stove).

the catalyst chamber will glow red holding a nice temp of 500 and putting off good heat.

Thanks in advance for helping a newbie. VC won’t even return my call/email...they tell me to contact a local dealer (who didn’t even understand my question).

A glowing cat is normal. Just keep the cat probe in the active zone and you will be fine. How long are your typical burn times?

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Wow, missed a lot on here over the last couple weeks. Don't want to take away from new people looking for help (been there), but I've noticed something over the past week and wanted to share/ get some opinions.

I've had some problems with over firing on some full loads and I could not figure out why. I would get the stove closed down at a decent temp and then get a spike 30 mins later that would often go into high 1600's and sometimes even over 1800 (usually I would open bypass if I see this happen). Anyway, lately some of my wood is not quite fully seasoned so I've been mixing with some well seasoned stuff, which has been working out. It caused me to start closing down the primary air differently, usually leaving it only 2/3 closed, other wise cat temps would start falling off drastically and I would lose flames in the box.

However, this has caused me to notice something else. Leaving the primary air at 2/3 usually keeps me between 1250 - 1450. In the past, if the temp settled at 1300 or so then starts rising after 20 mins, I would start closing down air more. Often ending up with it all the way closed, this usually slowed the rising temp. But I think this was also causing too much smoke to go though the CAT after a while and actually over firing, having the opposite effect intended. It feels strange to me to be leaving the air open this much, but I think its the correct way to run the stove. I was always worried my stove temp would spike but even with it 1/2 open, it never gets above 600. Usually now I am cruising with cat temp 1250 - 1450 and griddle top around 500.

Let me know your thoughts....

This is probably due to your higher MC wood. By cutting the primary to much the firebox doesn’t have enough air to keep the wood burning. So it smolders and smokes and makes the cat do all the work. Which in turn sends the cat temps skyward. Try baking the load a little longer with the bypass open. Watch your flue temps though, don’t overfire your chimney. Once you have closed the primary again try and bake it a little longer with the primary all the way open. Once the cat hits about 1400-1450 start closing your primary incrementally in small bites. You need the stove top above 500 as well so you can get some secondary action in the firebox as well. How full are you loading the stove?

 

[High_flyer]

I have a 3 year old 1975 defiant 2in1, that I bought new from a dealer. Beautiful stove, but I am pretty disappointed with the amount of heat that it puts out. I get the idea that the stove is starving for more air.

My main thing is though, it absolutely eats up CAT’s. The factory one didn’t do much to begin with, I got some from another supplier that seem to work OK, but after a single month of operation it already looks broken. It’ll still work, but at this rate it will only last a single 3 month burning season.

this can’t be normal, the dealer says it is, but in my opinion just not acceptable. And we are barely getting it into the “operate catalyst“ range.( yep..stock probe)

how often do you check the catalyst and when do you feel like replacing it? I actually heard it snap within a minute of closing the bypass the first burn, and this time I made very sure not to be going hot to get it going right away.

 

[Dobish]

Was wondering where you ran off to. Was starting think everyone was leaving. @Ashful has been radio silent as well and he is usually a pretty active participant of this forum. It’s got to be painful not being able to burn the stove all winter.

Yep... just got drywall yesterday. Hopefully soon i get to be back in action.

 

[gthomas785]

I have a 3 year old 1975 defiant 2in1, that I bought new from a dealer. Beautiful stove, but I am pretty disappointed with the amount of heat that it puts out. I get the idea that the stove is starving for more air.

My main thing is though, it absolutely eats up CAT’s. The factory one didn’t do much to begin with, I got some from another supplier that seem to work OK, but after a single month of operation it already looks broken. It’ll still work, but at this rate it will only last a single 3 month burning season.

this can’t be normal, the dealer says it is, but in my opinion just not acceptable. And we are barely getting it into the “operate catalyst“ range.( yep..stock probe)

how often do you check the catalyst and when do you feel like replacing it? I actually heard it snap within a minute of closing the bypass the first burn, and this time I made very sure not to be going hot to get it going right away.

Main reason for the cat to crumble like that is due to thermal shock. It happens if you have the cat operating then load a bunch of cold/wet wood and slam the damper shut before it's heated up. Or if you open the door without opening the bypass.