2020-21 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

[shgRUSS]

Hi, new owner of a new princess 32. I have read through the last few years of this thread (started at Christmas) and now have some questions. Stove needs to still be installed and after a quote from my stove dealer and insueing pucker factor for the chimney I have decided to install it myself. I will be getting the install WETT approved and will exceed all min. clearances. I will be installing the stove in the walk out basement through the wall and up outside with a OAK. I would very much like to use a 30 or 45 degree through wall kit to give me the best possible draft, along with chasing the outside if it is needed. There is no info in the manual for through wall except horizontal thimble installs. If I run a 30 degree through wall the bottom elbow would need to go directly on the stove collar to make clearances at the basement ceiling. Can this work? A 45 degree through wall gives me a couple feet clearance to the stove collar and most likely be the way I go with a telescoping double wall pipe. Or should I just stick with the 2 45 elbows, thimble and 90 degree with clean out on the “2100” chimney? Thoughts or advise is appreciated.

 

[stoveliker]

I would avoid the 30 deg elbow right on the collar. The stove needs two feet of vertical (double walled) pipe to function properly.

 

[jetsam]

Hi, new owner of a new princess 32. I have read through the last few years of this thread (started at Christmas)

You are getting the hang of this fast. 2020/2021 was a light year; usually there's 5 or 6 years of this thread between Xmas and spring.

If I run a 30 degree through wall the bottom elbow would need to go directly on the stove collar to make clearances at the basement ceiling. Can this work? A 45 degree through wall gives me a couple feet clearance to the stove collar and most likely be the way I go with a telescoping double wall pipe. Or should I just stick with the 2 45 elbows, thimble and 90 degree with clean out on the “2100” chimney? Thoughts or advise is appreciated.

If you're still toying with the 30, search for all the "I hate my BK" threads on here. There's a bunch, and they pretty much all feature a stove whose install does not meet minimum venting requirements. (And often from there, the thread goes on for pages of people telling the OP to vent the stove properly, and the OP replacing the door gasket and the cat and the firebrick and the left back leg instead.... even been a couple who started a new thread about how their new stove from a different manufacturer was defective in the same way the BK was.... )

...so vent it properly! 3' of rise before an elbow, then follow the chart after that.

 

[Highbeam]

Hi, new owner of a new princess 32. I have read through the last few years of this thread (started at Christmas) and now have some questions. Stove needs to still be installed and after a quote from my stove dealer and insueing pucker factor for the chimney I have decided to install it myself. I will be getting the install WETT approved and will exceed all min. clearances. I will be installing the stove in the walk out basement through the wall and up outside with a OAK. I would very much like to use a 30 or 45 degree through wall kit to give me the best possible draft, along with chasing the outside if it is needed. There is no info in the manual for through wall except horizontal thimble installs. If I run a 30 degree through wall the bottom elbow would need to go directly on the stove collar to make clearances at the basement ceiling. Can this work? A 45 degree through wall gives me a couple feet clearance to the stove collar and most likely be the way I go with a telescoping double wall pipe. Or should I just stick with the 2 45 elbows, thimble and 90 degree with clean out on the “2100” chimney? Thoughts or advise is appreciated.

To add, I really like a good outside air connection but you’re in a basement. The inlet to the outside air pipe must be below the firebox floor. Can’t do that in a basement unless it’s a daylight basement.

Can’t you just run the chimney vertical from the stove right up through the house and out the roof?

 

[shgRUSS]

You are getting the hang of this fast. 2020/2021 was a light year; usually there's 5 or 6 years of this thread between Xmas and spring.




If you're still toying with the 30, search for all the "I hate my BK" threads on here. There's a bunch, and they pretty much all feature a stove whose install does not meet minimum venting requirements. (And often from there, the thread goes on for pages of people telling the OP to vent the stove properly, and the OP replacing the door gasket and the cat and the firebrick and the left back leg instead.... even been a couple who started a new thread about how their new stove from a different manufacturer was defective in the same way the BK was.... )

...so vent it properly! 3' of rise before an elbow, then follow the chart after that.



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Hey thanks for the quick reply! I did not read from Christmas to now on this thread, I read the last few years (several hundred pages since Christmas time). As far as I can see BK suggests 2’ of rise before the preferred 2 45 elbows out and the 90 up. A 30 degree is actually 60 degrees from horizontal and much more vertical with much less restriction hence the question for alternative installations.

 

[shgRUSS]

To add, I really like a good outside air connection but you’re in a basement. The inlet to the outside air pipe must be below the firebox floor. Can’t do that in a basement unless it’s a daylight basement.

Can’t you just run the chimney vertical from the stove right up through the house and out the roof?

Through the house is a major pain, out is the only real option. Like in my first post the basement is a walk out ( open on one side for fresh air intake)

 

[jetsam]

Hey thanks for the quick reply! I did not read from Christmas to now on this thread, I read the last few years (several hundred pages since Christmas time). As far as I can see BK suggests 2’ of rise before the preferred 2 45 elbows out and the 90 up. A 30 degree is actually 60 degrees from horizontal and much more vertical with much less restriction hence the question for alternative installations.

Take a peek at the image above... I copied it out of the manual for your stove. 2' minimum requirement before an elbow, 3' recommended.

There do exist people who have BKs that they are very happy with, and which don't have venting that meets BK's requirements. But if it was me, I'd figure out how to meet them now so I wasn't figuring out how to pull out the install and meet them later, in case it doesn't work out.

Add to that that if you ever have any issue with the stove, one of the first questions anyone here will ask is 'how is it vented', and if there's an elbow on top of the stove, the troubleshooting procedure is pretty much complete at that point.

The Xmas thing was a bit of a joke for the regulars... we generate a lot of spam in here!

 

[Nealm66]

I hope you get it figured out. Awesome stove. I installed my own and only because it had some obstacles that required me to do just about everything but twist the pipe together before they would do the install . I’d say the extra money to have it pro installed would be totally worth the piece of mind but I know how things go. If you are able to get it done and it works how it should, it sure is worth it.

 

[kennyp2339]

Princess is back up and running, prob will keep a fire in the box until Easter, colder all around temps this week, typical spring weather here.
The nice thing is that my wood is so dry that I just used smaller 3" splits as my kindling with a heart wood fire starter, cat was within the active range within 15min, loaded larger ash and oak splits E&W until I couldn't fit anymore, I'll reload before bed tonight 9pm or so.

 

[shgRUSS]

Take a peek at the image above... I copied it out of the manual for your stove. 2' minimum requirement before an elbow, 3' recommended.

There do exist people who have BKs that they are very happy with, and which don't have venting that meets BK's requirements. But if it was me, I'd figure out how to meet them now so I wasn't figuring out how to pull out the install and meet them later, in case it doesn't work out.

Add to that that if you ever have any issue with the stove, one of the first questions anyone here will ask is 'how is it vented', and if there's an elbow on top of the stove, the troubleshooting procedure is pretty much complete at that point.

The Xmas thing was a bit of a joke for the regulars... we generate a lot of spam in here!

I would add that this is BK “MINIMUM” requirements for max flow restriction. Obviously straight up over 15’ in house is the best possible install. Hence why I would like to be as vertical as possible with either 2 30 elbows(60 degrees total restriction) or 2 45 elbows(90 degrees total restriction) versus the minimum recommended 2 45 elbows and the 90 tee up(180 degree total restriction).

 

[stoveliker]

I would add that this is BK “MINIMUM” requirements for max flow restriction. Obviously straight up over 15’ in house is the best possible install. Hence why I would like to be as vertical as possible with either 2 30 elbows(60 degrees total restriction) or 2 45 elbows(90 degrees total restriction) versus the minimum recommended 2 45 elbows and the 90 tee up(180 degree total restriction).

Ah, so you want the thru-the-wall section be angled. 30 degree off vertical is obviously better. BUT each section that's not vertical also adds impedance (it's not only the bends that do). And your 30 degree section will be longer than the 45 degree section. Moreover, the requirements are to have a first minimum of 2 ft vertical rise from the stove before any bends are put in (this'll likely have to do with the flow pattern/turbulence in the pipe).

The manual only lists additional height requirements (on top of the 15') for horizontal sections and bends, but a slanted section will also add (though less than a horizontal section).
I'd ask BK for advice in regards to a long 45 deg section.

Suppose you go with the 45 degree section (how long?), you'll have 15', two 45's means 2' extra. And then a bit more for a few feet of 45 slanted pipe.
(Also note your elevation above sea level - above 1000', you'll have to add 1/2 a ft per 1000' elevation.)

 

[Highbeam]

The angled hole in the wall is not normal. Imagine making that hole. Then the support tee at the bottom of the external stack is a 90 anyway. So you’re still doing two bends plus a 90.

 

[jetsam]

I would add that this is BK “MINIMUM” requirements for max flow restriction. Obviously straight up over 15’ in house is the best possible install. Hence why I would like to be as vertical as possible with either 2 30 elbows(60 degrees total restriction) or 2 45 elbows(90 degrees total restriction) versus the minimum recommended 2 45 elbows and the 90 tee up(180 degree total restriction).

You'd think that net draft is the only thing that matters, but I've seen enough people with draft symptoms who had tall stacks and early elbows to want to question that. I'll submit a knowledge requisition to the boys who understand these things.

@BKVP - can you explain why somebody with measured draft that is in spec but a 45 right on top of the stove could have draft problems? I know that's a thing but I can't figure out how it works now that I am thinking about it.

 

[Nealm66]

Mine is through the wall with 2 90’s and then up the recommended. It works fine for me but I do notice on the rare occasions when I’m building a fire from scratch, if I don’t do things just right I can get the smoke smell and set the smoke/co alarm off. Still don’t have it down to a science but I’m leaning on just obeying the manual pretty much eliminates the alarm. Smell is still there but not unpleasant type, just wood stove normal . Again, none of this happens if I reload on hot coals although I did have a couple alarms when I was burning Idaho press logs but I could probably adjust procedure and eliminate. Another thing is to make sure your wood is dry and don’t forget to close the bypass. Mine built up a noticeable amount of creosote in 12-15 hours and I’m sure of this because I did it twice. Benefits of hurrying a reload before work.

 

[shgRUSS]

Thanks all for the posts, I am pretty sure I will go with the two 45 elbows, that gets me the 2’ of rise out of the stove and less restriction than an extra 90 tee out side. Elevation is1750’

 

[shgRUSS]

The angled hole in the wall is not normal. Imagine making that hole. Then the support tee at the bottom of the external stack is a 90 anyway. So you’re still doing two bends plus a 90.

Not worried about the hole, I am fairly proficient at such things. There would be no extra 90 outside, just 45 elbow to go through wall, then 45 elbow to go up outside. If I had to use the support tee could I not just go in the bottom of it? If not they do make a insulated support that allow this I believe.

 

[Diabel]

Mine goes up 4’ from the stove then 2 45s, through the wall out into a t (clean out) then i had to put two 30s to go by a window. Total 25-26’ . I get smoke spillage if i am not careful especially in shoulder season.

 

[Nealm66]

I like the clean out T. Mines a 2 story with 12/12 pitch and reaching the top isn’t easy. Can’t remember how high off the stove the first 90 is but 10’ ceiling so fairly high.

 

[showrguy]

Welp, Once I finally realized “this damn thing ain’t comin out”..
It went pretty good..
Did not take pictures, old gasket was definitely deteriorated on the right side, the front of the gasket was really black/grey..
stove has been smoking way more than it should, so I figured it had to be the bipass gasket..
Did not reinstall the 1 year old CAT yet, but a fire in the stove will tell me if I was right ?? Maybe tomorrow..
Oh, and the retainers are not sagging, drooping..

Success !!
Finally got chilly enough to build a fire..... No smoke..
It’s kinda weird though, the dollar bill test is not always accurate !!
The other thing I noticed when I had the plate out of is location was that there was a fair amount of fine dust/rust buildup where the pins rest, possibly holding up the front of the plate up ??
Anyway, all is good now..

 

[shgRUSS]

This is what I am talking about. If I do 45 elbows I could get The 24” vertical pipe benfore the offset.

 

[shgRUSS]

Another question: would BK have to officially approve this type of install to get a WETT certification?

 

[bholler]

Another question: would BK have to officially approve this type of install to get a WETT certification?

You would have to ask your wett inspector that question. What will the overall height of your chimney be? How do you plan on making that angled penetration weather tight? I have seen it tried a few times and they all leaked untill they were enclosed in a chase.

 

[shgRUSS]

You would have to ask your wett inspector that question. What will the overall height of your chimney be? How do you plan on making that angled penetration weather tight? I have seen it tried a few times and they all leaked untill they were enclosed in a chase.

I would need 19’ vertical pipe after the second 45 elbow to properly clear the roof (could add more if needed). I will most like chase unless everything works amazing, the part of my house where the chimney would go through the wall is very protected and never gets wet regardless.

 

[chazcarr]

I was furious at my princess insert all season. It would just not operate correctly. Tried all I could think of to get it better. Even replaced the stat with a brand new one. We had a few nice days so I just tore the thing apart looking for the issue while it was cold.
The last thing I did was take off the door and gasket. I used a dremel to get the cement off the nuts and undid the glass for the first time since purchase (3 years). The glass gasket was essentially non-existent dust!
Replaced it and started up a new fire. Everything works great again and I am getting that nice orange glow. The window is blacking over again. All these months and it was the glass gasket.
It was a real pain to replace that too! Those nuts were really glued in there.
Just sharing in case anyone else has the issue where only half the wood will burn.

 

[Highbeam]

I was furious at my princess insert all season. It would just not operate correctly. Tried all I could think of to get it better. Even replaced the stat with a brand new one. We had a few nice days so I just tore the thing apart looking for the issue while it was cold.
The last thing I did was take off the door and gasket. I used a dremel to get the cement off the nuts and undid the glass for the first time since purchase (3 years). The glass gasket was essentially non-existent dust!
Replaced it and started up a new fire. Everything works great again and I am getting that nice orange glow. The window is blacking over again. All these months and it was the glass gasket.
It was a real pain to replace that too! Those nuts were really glued in there.
Just sharing in case anyone else has the issue where only half the wood will burn.

Cement? Wasn’t it just rtv on the glass nuts? Due to the BK design feature you had to replace the door gasket too. Could the door gasket have also been leaking?