2020-21 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

[Poindexter]

Chemist here. Actually, that is quite a thing. Coal combustion mostly leaves carbon monoxide as the primary combustion product, not carbon dioxide. That's why it's so easy to kill yourself by barbecueing indoors. And carbon monoxide has a lot of BTU's that are released when the cat combusts it to carbon dioxide.
Back in the day, "city gas" was not methane as it is today, but carbon monoxide. They powered street lamps with it, and people cooked with it. Quite dangerous, but without alternative at the time.

So, TLDR, the coals indeed give a lot of food to your cat.

Good to know, biologist here. So will any old noble metal catalyst be able to do this, heated to only +/- 600dF?

When I was burning hardwood lump charcoal in mine the needle on the cat probe didn't move when I closed the bypass door, I got it up into active with the bypass door open, and then when I closed the bypass the needle didn't move.

I think I remember without a catalyst there needs to be an oxygen rich chamber with plentiful oxygen and lots of turbulence to convert CO to CO2 at or near 1400 dF.

 

[Poindexter]

@Nz3000owner , your before picture shows me you are burning dry wood and your after picture I would install and run.

 

[Poindexter]

@Tron , if you want to try it I had a warm stove, cat indicator about halfway up the inactive zone towards active, maybe a softball sized glob of cord wood (spruce) coals and some free time. I pushed ash back and raked coals forward for coals on bare brick and better airflow, and then dropped about two or three chimenys of hardwood lump charcoal on the buring spruce coals. Somewhere between half a cubic foot, maybe a cubic foot of charcoal. I used the ash collection drawer in my A30 to bring to drawer buckets or whatever you call that thing, 2 drawers pretty level with the top, no charcoal dust on the stove room carpet.

Closed the loading door, let it run in bypass until the cat probe was back up into the active zone, closed the bypass so the exhaust stream was routed through the combustor, cat probe indicator didn't budge any higher. It did take a fair bit of my load to get that whole 500# stove back up into active, but it ran a good 15-20 minutes in bypass with no discernible movement on the cat probe indicator until it started dropping.

My only data point.

 

[Tron]

600 degrees F might be cutting it close. I have no idea what the start of the "active zone" in our cat probes relates to, though.
But if you think of it, the cat in our stoves does effectively the same thing as a two-way-cat in automobiles. One reaction is to combust CO and O2 to CO2. Another, and that's when you have wood burning, is to convert hydrocarbons to CO2 and H2O.

In an automobile cat, that starts happening at about 800F. So yes, I'd say that while it might be hard to get the cat into the active zone using charcoal, once it's there and working the catalytic reaction should get going. If the cat temperature is >800F, which we don't know.

 

[Nz3000owner]

@Nz3000owner , your before picture shows me you are burning dry wood and your after picture I would install and run.

Thanks guys! Last season half way through I did vacuum the front off. This season I’ll do that plus use a little compressed air to blow it through the back.

My chimney is 28’ and I got 3/4 of a cup out of it when I swept it last night. I was pleased to see that after my first year of operation.

My only comment is that I bought 3 gaskets about a month ago to have on hand from the stove shop I purchased the stove from. I wanted 3 just in case since it was my first time and they had to order them. They cost me $25 each! I think someone mentioned they were $6. Please share where you get them that cheap!

 

[moresnow]

My chimney is 28’ and I got 3/4 of a cup out of it when I swept it last night. I was pleased to see that after my first year of operation.

Are you pulling the stove pipe to vac around the bypass plate/gasket assembly, backside of the Cat area etc. as part of your sweep/cleaning? I know the Sirocco and Princess models get a bunch of build up in that area that is really only accessible by pulling the pipe. I've always figured that residue was best removed.

Ashford operators please chip in.

 

[Brentwood]

I just picked up a lightly used Blaze King stove. It's the King model, KE1107. I've read the manual, and I know the manufacturer's recommendations. This is my first post, but I've read a lot of the posts here over the last year or two, as I've thought about upgrading my stove.

I've been running a Fisher Papa Bear as my main source of heat for 30 years. The exhaust exits from the back in a 90-degree elbow. There is five feet of single wall 6" stove pipe directly above the stove, and 15 feet of Class A double-wall pipe above that, all vertical. I bought the Blaze King with the idea of storing it until next winter, and then replacing the current 6" pipe with 8" next summer, along with some other remodeling projects in the stove room, but I'm tempted to put an 8" x 6" reducer on the Blaze King and start using it this winter.

I can imagine that it's possible that the 6" chimney won't make enough draft to make the Blaze King work properly. I haven't measured my draft, and I don't have experience with other stoves and chimneys, so I can't compare it to anything, but most of the time, I can fire up my stove from a cold start and get the single-wall pipe to 500 F. in a few minutes, so I think my draft is good.

I realize the difficulty of recommending to someone you don't know to do something not approved by the manufacturer, but I'm going to ask because it's inevitable that someone will know something I don't. What am I not considering? What dangers might I learn about the hard way? What don't I know that I ought to know?

Thanks!

Brent
Odin MN

 

[begreen]

There is a risk of weak draft causing poor performance and smoke spillage when the stove door is open.

 

[Poindexter]

600 degrees F might be cutting it close. I have no idea what the start of the "active zone" in our cat probes relates to, though.
But if you think of it, the cat in our stoves does effectively the same thing as a two-way-cat in automobiles. One reaction is to combust CO and O2 to CO2. Another, and that's when you have wood burning, is to convert hydrocarbons to CO2 and H2O.

In an automobile cat, that starts happening at about 800F. So yes, I'd say that while it might be hard to get the cat into the active zone using charcoal, once it's there and working the catalytic reaction should get going. If the cat temperature is >800F, which we don't know.

The whole reason I was burning hardwood lump charcoal in mine was to figure out where 600dF is on the factory dial. 600dF demonstrated by burning hardwood lump charcoal corresponds almost exactly with where the cat probe indicator needle gets to when my chimney plume switches from visible to invisible.

Using a chimney probe I can get >600dF at my BBQ grates, burning charcoal, using forced induction. Hitting 900dF/ 1000dF is fairly simple, just blow all over the outside of a pile of burning charcoal with a hairdryer, and be quick about cooking. When I want sustained temps, or sustained higher than that I use a tuyere so I can blow air in from the bottom, also with a hair dryer.

Even with the loading door cracked I don't empirically/subjectively sense enough volume and turbulence of airflow into the firebox to get much over 600/700 dF. We could maybe get 800 if we hooked up a blower to the air intake but I am sure Chris would have a cow.

The attachment is the tuyere in my parrilla running, you can see the hairdryer right foreground and visible secondary combustion. Fuel is well seasoned birch burnt down to coals, then the coals shoveled onto the tuyere.

 

[Poindexter]

I just picked up a lightly used Blaze King stove. It's the King model, KE1107. I've read the manual, and I know the manufacturer's recommendations.

I can imagine that it's possible that the 6" chimney won't make enough draft to make the Blaze King work properly.

What am I not considering? What dangers might I learn about the hard way? What don't I know that I ought to know?

Thanks!

Brent
Odin MN

I suspect you will be wanting all eight inches of chimney diameter working for you during the bake down phase. Starting from a cold stove, once the combustor reaches the active zone you'll want to engage the combustor and run the throttle wide open for 30 minutes.

This is what I think of as the "bake down" phase. As the fuel in there gets hotter and hotter you will be baking the last of the moisture out of the cordwood, literally _baking_ the fuel not on fire yet _down_ to zero moisture content.

For this phase you need a lot of heat in the chimney to lift the weight of all that water, and you want the chimney hot all the way up so you are ejecting water vapor, not having a bunch of condensate form on the inner walls of your chimney.

M2c

 

[Brentwood]

I just picked up a lightly used Blaze King stove. It's the King model, KE1107. I've read the manual, and I know the manufacturer's recommendations. This is my first post, but I've read a lot of the posts here over the last year or two, as I've thought about upgrading my stove.

I've been running a Fisher Papa Bear as my main source of heat for 30 years. The exhaust exits from the back in a 90-degree elbow. There is five feet of single wall 6" stove pipe directly above the stove, and 15 feet of Class A double-wall pipe above that, all vertical. I bought the Blaze King with the idea of storing it until next winter, and then replacing the current 6" pipe with 8" next summer, along with some other remodeling projects in the stove room, but I'm tempted to put an 8" x 6" reducer on the Blaze King and start using it this winter.

I can imagine that it's possible that the 6" chimney won't make enough draft to make the Blaze King work properly. I haven't measured my draft, and I don't have experience with other stoves and chimneys, so I can't compare it to anything, but most of the time, I can fire up my stove from a cold start and get the single-wall pipe to 500 F. in a few minutes, so I think my draft is good.

I realize the difficulty of recommending to someone you don't know to do something not approved by the manufacturer, but I'm going to ask because it's inevitable that someone will know something I don't. What am I not considering? What dangers might I learn about the hard way? What don't I know that I ought to know?

Thanks!

Brent
Odin MN

 

[ABMax24]

Draft is dependent on flue temps and flue height, of course negative or positive pressure in the house plays a role in this too. The king model requires 8" pipe because it requires the extra volume to get rid of the flue gases on such a large stove.

I think the real question here is what would your house insurance company say? I know mine would void my insurance for a non-compliant install. That right there is enough reason for me not to do it, not worth the risk of not being covered if a house fire was in anyway related to the wood stove.

 

[moresnow]

I just picked up a lightly used Blaze King stove. It's the King model, KE1107. I've read the manual, and I know the manufacturer's recommendations. This is my first post, but I've read a lot of the posts here over the last year or two, as I've thought about upgrading my stove.

I've been running a Fisher Papa Bear as my main source of heat for 30 years. The exhaust exits from the back in a 90-degree elbow. There is five feet of single wall 6" stove pipe directly above the stove, and 15 feet of Class A double-wall pipe above that, all vertical. I bought the Blaze King with the idea of storing it until next winter, and then replacing the current 6" pipe with 8" next summer, along with some other remodeling projects in the stove room, but I'm tempted to put an 8" x 6" reducer on the Blaze King and start using it this winter.

I can imagine that it's possible that the 6" chimney won't make enough draft to make the Blaze King work properly. I haven't measured my draft, and I don't have experience with other stoves and chimneys, so I can't compare it to anything, but most of the time, I can fire up my stove from a cold start and get the single-wall pipe to 500 F. in a few minutes, so I think my draft is good.

I realize the difficulty of recommending to someone you don't know to do something not approved by the manufacturer, but I'm going to ask because it's inevitable that someone will know something I don't. What am I not considering? What dangers might I learn about the hard way? What don't I know that I ought to know?

Thanks!

Brent
Odin MN

This guy @BKVP may be able to give you some educated guidance

By the way did you buy the stove in Wi. by chance?

 

[BKVP]

If you like a house that smells like beef jerky, with not so good air quality...you can try...

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Who doesnt like beef jerkey?

 

[Brentwood]

The king model requires 8" pipe because it requires the extra volume to get rid of the flue gases on such a large stove.

Good thought. I would qualify that statement a little, though. I would say that the 8" pipe is capable of providing enough draft to carry the exhaust from the stove at maximum output. I rarely run my stove at maximum output. But I tend to run it hard when lighting or reloading it, so I suppose that capacity is necessary every day I use it.

I think the real question here is what would your house insurance company say?

Another good thought. I'm not sure they would know enough to question it. I've dealt with insurance inspectors and adjusters enough to know they mostly follow their scripts, and those scripts don't involve a lot of digging and investigating. But it really is a good concern, and one I hadn't thought of.

Thanks for your post. I appreciate it!

Brent

 

[Brentwood]

By the way did you buy the stove in Wi. by chance?

I did. I've had a search query on Craigslist for almost two years. I saw the email about 20 minutes after he posted it for sale and called him immediately. When I picked it up, he let me know how many inquiries he got after mine.

 

[Brentwood]

If you like a house that smells like beef jerky, with not so good air quality...you can try...

That makes me wish I'd asked for experiences from people who've tried a King on a 6" chimney.

If someone's tried something close to what I'm thinking of trying, their bad experience might be enough to get me to forget about trying it. Or their good experience might sway me in the other direction.

I wouldn't expect anyone to encourage me to do it, especially someone who doesn't know me or how I do things, or someone who hasn't seen my chimney or its location. I'd probably be leery of someone who did. I think there's probably a good reason Blaze King recommends the 8" chimney. I just can't be sure I understand everything behind that recommendation. I *think* I know the reason, but there have been times when I've thought I knew everything there was to know and it turned out I didn't. Manufacturers have a strong incentive to steer their customers away from anything that might lead to a bad experience with their product. Some recommendations come from engineering, some come from legal.

I'm just trying to weigh pros and cons, and I appreciate all the thoughts.

 

[bholler]

That makes me wish I'd asked for experiences from people who've tried a King on a 6" chimney.

If someone's tried something close to what I'm thinking of trying, their bad experience might be enough to get me to forget about trying it. Or their good experience might sway me in the other direction.

I wouldn't expect anyone to encourage me to do it, especially someone who doesn't know me or how I do things, or someone who hasn't seen my chimney or its location. I'd probably be leery of someone who did. I think there's probably a good reason Blaze King recommends the 8" chimney. I just can't be sure I understand everything behind that recommendation. I *think* I know the reason, but there have been times when I've thought I knew everything there was to know and it turned out I didn't. Manufacturers have a strong incentive to steer their customers away from anything that might lead to a bad experience with their product. Some recommendations come from engineering, some come from legal.

I'm just trying to weigh pros and cons, and I appreciate all the thoughts.

Bkvp is the VP of blaze king stoves. He knows his product and what they can and can't do.

 

[ABMax24]

Another good thought. I'm not sure they would know enough to question it. I've dealt with insurance inspectors and adjusters enough to know they mostly follow their scripts, and those scripts don't involve a lot of digging and investigating. But it really is a good concern, and one I hadn't thought of.

Thanks for your post. I appreciate it!

Brent

That's what you think now, when it come to paying out hundreds of thousands of dollars you deal with a different set of adjusters, they know their stuff, it's in the insurance companies best interest to avoid paying, if they can do it on a chimney technicality they will.

Ultimately do what you want, but you've been warned for a few reasons why to not install that stove on a 6" chimney.

 

[bholler]

That's what you think now, when it come to paying out hundreds of thousands of dollars you deal with a different set of adjusters, they know their stuff, it's in the insurance companies best interest to avoid paying, if they can do it on a chimney technicality they will.

Ultimately do what you want, but you've been warned for a few reasons why to not install that stove on a 6" chimney.

Or they pay guys like me to come find the problems.

 

[Dieselhead]

I run a king on a 7” flue. First 5’ or so is double wall black stove pipe the rest is insulated double wall. 7” is what was required for my previous stove. I rolled the dice on reusing it with the king. I have 26’ of flue total height with 2 45’s in it to go around the ridge beam. I just run my draft at .10”wc instead of .08 and have no issues...

 

[BKVP]

That makes me wish I'd asked for experiences from people who've tried a King on a 6" chimney.

If someone's tried something close to what I'm thinking of trying, their bad experience might be enough to get me to forget about trying it. Or their good experience might sway me in the other direction.

I wouldn't expect anyone to encourage me to do it, especially someone who doesn't know me or how I do things, or someone who hasn't seen my chimney or its location. I'd probably be leery of someone who did. I think there's probably a good reason Blaze King recommends the 8" chimney. I just can't be sure I understand everything behind that recommendation. I *think* I know the reason, but there have been times when I've thought I knew everything there was to know and it turned out I didn't. Manufacturers have a strong incentive to steer their customers away from anything that might lead to a bad experience with their product. Some recommendations come from engineering, some come from legal.

I'm just trying to weigh pros and cons, and I appreciate all the thoughts.

How about 50+ phone calls to our offices every month from people that have tried it? The input I share is from working with people in the real world of operating our products.

 

[begreen]

It's a pretty common question for cat and non-cats with 8" flue requirements.

 

[Nealm66]

Good to know there’s a high demand for used kings though, I guess. I think I heard there’s a 6 week wait for a new one. I can totally relate to wanting a king size but my chimney isn’t worthy ha ha