2019-20 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

[BKVP]

The ashford model has developed a reputation for emitting a creosote stank into your home. Sure, it may depends on many factors but fact of the matter is that a lot of honest folks have come here for help with this problem. I would not recommend one for my mom given the smell issue. Good news is that other models are bueno.

And to add...the vast majority of the fewer than 20 folks of the thousands we have sold, were able to remedy the issue by using a different gasket, lining unlined chimneys, adding chimney length to minimum recommended or more length.

Also, dealers took two units back, burned them in their showrooms and could not replicate the odor. They then discounted them, sold them as used and those two installs have had no odor issues in my personal follow up calls.

 

[ratsrepus]

And to add...the vast majority of the fewer than 20 folks of the thousands we have sold, were able to remedy the issue by using a different gasket, lining unlined chimneys, adding chimney length to minimum recommended or more length.

Also, dealers took two units back, burned them in their showrooms and could not replicate the odor. They then discounted them, sold them as used and those two installs have had no odor issues in my personal follow up calls.

I never felt it was a stove issue, but an install or chimney problem. Never had any smell with mine

 

[coutufr]

The beefier door gasket helped a lot with the creo smell. I burn hotter and this seems to help as well. I improved the quality (uniform and lower humidity) of my wood. Burning when it’s above freezing outside is still my main challenge. I am looking into installing an outside air kit but I haven’t found a way to do it cheap enough for it to make sense financially.

 

[will1975]

Interesting... is the smell thing only found with the ashford or are the other models with the same firebox equally likely to have it? If it is so rare and easily fixed I would have loved to get my hands on one of those deep discounted models!

On a side note, I figured this would be a good place to ask this since it is mostly blaze king owners reading this thread. What is the shortest flue height you guys have heard a blaze king princess/ashford type stove running (well) on? I could have sworn I had looked at an older pdf manual that stated 12' minimum but I just noticed all the new ones say 15 feet from flue collar on stove. I am installing in a single story ranch with a fairly shallow pitch roof. My chimney install I went quite a bit higher than the roof code to make sure it would draft well but I still will only have about 12' of flue from stove top. I know it's not a deal breaker i can always add another section of pipe if it doesn't draft well enough but just looking for some insight and weighing all the options. I was originally looking at tube burners because I didn't want the added expense of replacing a cat every so often, but after lurking here long enough and doing some reading I have decided a cat stove really sounds better for us. Thanks in advance for any feedback you guys might have

 

[Highbeam]

Interesting... is the smell thing only found with the ashford or are the other models with the same firebox equally likely to have it? If it is so rare and easily fixed I would have loved to get my hands on one of those deep discounted models!

On a side note, I figured this would be a good place to ask this since it is mostly blaze king owners reading this thread. What is the shortest flue height you guys have heard a blaze king princess/ashford type stove running (well) on? I could have sworn I had looked at an older pdf manual that stated 12' minimum but I just noticed all the new ones say 15 feet from flue collar on stove. I am installing in a single story ranch with a fairly shallow pitch roof. My chimney install I went quite a bit higher than the roof code to make sure it would draft well but I still will only have about 12' of flue from stove top. I know it's not a deal breaker i can always add another section of pipe if it doesn't draft well enough but just looking for some insight and weighing all the options. I was originally looking at tube burners because I didn't want the added expense of replacing a cat every so often, but after lurking here long enough and doing some reading I have decided a cat stove really sounds better for us. Thanks in advance for any feedback you guys might have

Great question. However small the number of ashford stink complaints are, is there an equal number of complaints per thousand chinook and scirocco stoves?

My princess manual from 2012 only requires 12’ of chimney and that’s all I have. It’s all vertical and only the top 4 feet are in the air. In the mid 2010s the princess manuals suddenly started showing 15’ as the minimum recommended height for the identical princess. Weird. Not sure why but I never told my princess about this so she still is happy in the 12’.

I regularly burn my stove when outside temperatures are above 60. No problem starting and running a fire but at any temperature, even single digits, the princess will let smoke roll out the loading door if you open it with a load of fuel burning. There are some tricks to minimize this but it’s very difficult to eliminate so it’s best to let each load burn down to just coals before reloading.

These bk stoves are currently the best performing stoves on the market in two areas, longest burns (in other words, widest range of available outputs) and highest efficiency. Important attributes for working people that use their stoves for primary heat. To get these rewards there are a few drawbacks that I think are worth overcoming.

 

[jetsam]

what do you recommend for lube

High temp anti-sieze. Most here use copper, not that it's important in this application.

The copper stuff makes a reasonably good thermal transfer compound for heatsinking too!

 

[jetsam]

Interesting... is the smell thing only found with the ashford or are the other models with the same firebox equally likely to have it? If it is so rare and easily fixed I would have loved to get my hands on one of those deep discounted models!

On a side note, I figured this would be a good place to ask this since it is mostly blaze king owners reading this thread. What is the shortest flue height you guys have heard a blaze king princess/ashford type stove running (well) on? I could have sworn I had looked at an older pdf manual that stated 12' minimum but I just noticed all the new ones say 15 feet from flue collar on stove. I am installing in a single story ranch with a fairly shallow pitch roof. My chimney install I went quite a bit higher than the roof code to make sure it would draft well but I still will only have about 12' of flue from stove top. I know it's not a deal breaker i can always add another section of pipe if it doesn't draft well enough but just looking for some insight and weighing all the options. I was originally looking at tube burners because I didn't want the added expense of replacing a cat every so often, but after lurking here long enough and doing some reading I have decided a cat stove really sounds better for us. Thanks in advance for any feedback you guys might have

I ran my PI on about 12' at first, and added another 3' about 6 months on. The extra height really helped the stove to not leak smoke during reloads, but it wasn't terrible on 12'.

 

[ratsrepus]

View attachment 247247

High temp anti-sieze. Most here use copper, not that it's important in this application.

The copper stuff makes a reasonably good thermal transfer compound for heatsinking too!

thanks, thats what i use

 

[Diabel]

thanks, thats what i use

Sorry,
Where are we to apply this formula? When tightening the latch?

Cheers

 

[begreen]

These bk stoves are currently the best performing stoves on the market in two areas, longest burns (in other words, widest range of available outputs) and highest efficiency. Important attributes for working people that use their stoves for primary heat. To get these rewards there are a few drawbacks that I think are worth overcoming.

Also, cat replacement every few years if one is heating 24/7.

 

[BKVP]

I heat 24/7 about 5 months a year. My combustor, which was well over 9 years old still performed great. No smoke after start up and certainly not as efficient, but it worked great.

Now I'm running V3 special cat now...and zip noticed an increase in performance.

Can't wait for the new King!

 

[begreen]

I heat 24/7 about 5 months a year. My combustor, which was well over 9 years old still performed great. No smoke after start up and certainly not as efficient, but it worked great.

Seems to be a solo performance based on all the reports here. Most people are getting the cat mfg's stated 10-12,000 hrs.

 

[Highbeam]

I heat 24/7 about 5 months a year. My combustor, which was well over 9 years old still performed great. No smoke after start up and certainly not as efficient, but it worked great.

Now I'm running V3 special cat now...and zip noticed an increase in performance.

Can't wait for the new King!

The new king..., if anything like the new princess will impress us with over the top performance specs. Please put it on a 6” flue! I can live with a numberless swoosh but not an 8” flue from the 70s.

 

[lsucet]

I will like to know the proper way to measured the cat performance.
I see everyone going for just smoke and possibly the cat not lighting up like it should? There are many reasons for that, wood quality is number 1. Everybody says their wood is bone dry, kiln dry etc, but their cat crumble and falls apart. Really? Was your wood that dry/seasoned?

Every winter, almost at the end of it, is when we hear the complaints about the cat not working right Bla Bla Bla.
An observation. That is the time that we all get to the part of the wood pile that air didn't get to it too much and moist content is high on that part of the pile. Maybe a wet winter and it got wet and too much moisture. But at that time we don't measure cause the pile has been stack for .......... xxx time. Oh, for sure is dry. We, sometimes, almost at the end of the season, we start using wood from the pile that is supposed to be ready for next winter or we run out of wood and let's just get whatever we can find.

We get used to a cat that is super hyper acting up and looks like a nightlight in the middle of the night and it is unacceptable not to have that performance. Is that really means the cat is not good?

I am saying this cause I went through that last winter. Started using wood from a pile that was back there for years but water from all the rain and snow storm got to it some how. I was close to replace the cat but I did measured MC first and fair enough. I went back to the pile I was burning before and did couple of hot burns and everything got back to normal. I know it will not perform the same over time but are the changes really that drastic?

 

[kennyp2339]

I know it will not perform the same over time but are the changes really that drastic?

So it either works or doesn't? I had cat failure last season during one of the worst cold snaps, bought a new one, but was sent to wrong sized one by mistake, almost switched out the whole stove from that seeing how vulnerable the system can be.
The noticeable cat changes that led up to the failure was more fly ash accumulation on the flame shield, it was a orange / brown build up, longer time for the cat to light off, shorter burn times to make up for loss of heat, and a lack of a glow.
Never changed my settings and when I popped the new cat in, it lit right off and all was well in the wood burning world again.

 

[BKVP]

The new king..., if anything like the new princess will impress us with over the top performance specs. Please put it on a 6” flue! I can live with a numberless swoosh but not an 8” flue from the 70s.

6" failed...not an option sir...

 

[BKVP]

So it either works or doesn't? I had cat failure last season during one of the worst cold snaps, bought a new one, but was sent to wrong sized one by mistake, almost switched out the whole stove from that seeing how vulnerable the system can be.
The noticeable cat changes that led up to the failure was more fly ash accumulation on the flame shield, it was a orange / brown build up, longer time for the cat to light off, shorter burn times to make up for loss of heat, and a lack of a glow.
Never changed my settings and when I popped the new cat in, it lit right off and all was well in the wood burning world again.

I've posted before, cats are like tires. Super traction the first year...a little less the second year. Should you burn a "tire" that permits stove to smoke, no! There are millions of units out there that have well performing cats after a decade...some more. All cats diminish in their capacity ever so slighty year to year. The owner replaces it with any drop in performance, like it stops glowing must be replaced. That's the guy I would buy a used car from!!

Same goes for the tube or baffle guy that inspect each tube for cracks, warping or other than new performance traits. I'd buy his used car too.

We get cats back under warranty...a few each year. We put them (the ones not exposed to thermal shock) into a stove and run them. The geeks come back into my office, set it on my desk and say "nothing wrong with this one". Still 80% of new numbers....about 60-70% of the time.

I've got an idea on how to make this point....more on this after I contact someone to get some input.

 

[Ashful]

I suspect the threshold for “dead cat” for many of us is when it fails to stay lit thru most of the burn cycle at our usual burn rate. When I replaced my last steelcat, somewhere in the 15,000 to 18,000 hour range, it wasn’t because it couldn’t light off anymore. It would actually light off just fine, and show good temps at mid-burn. But it was no longer active when I got home from work in the evening, like it had been for the first 3 - 4 years of use.

So, yes... it hadn’t failed, it was only fading. I replaced it on my nickel, didn’t submit it for warranty. It was still a viable cat, I just figured it had become less efficient for the mode I wanted to run, based on it falling out of active earlier in the burn cycle than a newer one.

I am fine with that. I went into this endeavor knowing cats were consumables, and had figured a 3-year replacement schedule into my cost of ownership. I think I paid under $200 for the replacement, I can’t even remember, it wasn’t significant enough to commit to memory.

 

[kennyp2339]

I've got an idea on how to make this point....more on this after I contact someone to get some input.

Chris, purely just for research and what not, I have my old cat that died last year still in the box, I'll be more than happy to mail you it just to let the nerds look it over, looking for nothing in return other then to help the cause.

 

[bholler]

I've posted before, cats are like tires. Super traction the first year...a little less the second year. Should you burn a "tire" that permits stove to smoke, no! There are millions of units out there that have well performing cats after a decade...some more. All cats diminish in their capacity ever so slighty year to year. The owner replaces it with any drop in performance, like it stops glowing must be replaced. That's the guy I would buy a used car from!!

Same goes for the tube or baffle guy that inspect each tube for cracks, warping or other than new performance traits. I'd buy his used car too.

We get cats back under warranty...a few each year. We put them (the ones not exposed to thermal shock) into a stove and run them. The geeks come back into my office, set it on my desk and say "nothing wrong with this one". Still 80% of new numbers....about 60-70% of the time.

I've got an idea on how to make this point....more on this after I contact someone to get some input.

But what percentage are bad because of thermal shock? That is commonly what we see.

 

[chemie]

I went back to the pile I was burning before and did couple of hot burns and everything got back to normal. I know it will not perform the same over time but are the changes really that drastic?

At the end of the burning season around late April/early May, I experienced very late cat activation compared to before and the cat was very dim. I was thinking about two possibilities: clogged cat because of about 30 ft chimney, or not so dry wood. I will start this burning season with kiln dried oak rips to make several hot burns to rejuvenate ( if there is such a thing) my cat. Or should I just fo ahead and open the cat gasket to check if the cat is clogged or not and then replace the gasket after only a year of burn?

 

[SpaceBus]

And to add...the vast majority of the fewer than 20 folks of the thousands we have sold, were able to remedy the issue by using a different gasket, lining unlined chimneys, adding chimney length to minimum recommended or more length.

Also, dealers took two units back, burned them in their showrooms and could not replicate the odor. They then discounted them, sold them as used and those two installs have had no odor issues in my personal follow up calls.

I don't understand how a thicker door gasket would help. I'm actually really glad to see this post since there was a very lengthy thread about an Ashford that allegedly released a smell. I honestly don't know how any stove can emit an odor originating from the firebox without opening the door, with the exception of a back puff or flash back. Furthermore it should never be the smell of creosote unless their cat isn't working or the fire is smoldering in a non cat. I just don't understand how a box under positive pressure could leak creosote vapor into a house, especially given this poster even had a draft guage on the stack. It does seem that marginal firewood is the culprit at times.

This is very pedantic and only to satisfy my own curiosity.

 

[Ashful]

I was thinking about two possibilities: clogged cat because of about 30 ft chimney, or not so dry wood.

What stove and what cat? My forum reader doesn’t show signatures in this forum, so sorry if you have it listed there.

I can repeatedly clog steel cats in an Ashford 30 on the same height flue, just run it on high a few hours. A key damper to control the draft of that too-tall pipe was the solution, and BK covers this with their .06” WC max draft spec.

Some here have speculated that even the 15 feet minimum flue they specify might sometimes exceed .06” WC, and I suspect they may be right, but I haven’t seen anyone actually test or prove it. I can only say I have none of the same cat cloggage issues on my 15 foot flue, only on the 30-footer.

 

[lsucet]

At the end of the burning season around late April/early May, I experienced very late cat activation compared to before and the cat was very dim. I was thinking about two possibilities: clogged cat because of about 30 ft chimney, or not so dry wood. I will start this burning season with kiln dried oak rips to make several hot burns to rejuvenate ( if there is such a thing) my cat. Or should I just fo ahead and open the cat gasket to check if the cat is clogged or not and then replace the gasket after only a year of burn?

I forgot which model of stove you have, but if is the ceramic cat, I doubt it's clogged. If it is SS cat, it can be possible. Looks like SS cat has the tendency of clogging regardless chimney length. A family member crossing the street has an Ashford on around 17' of chimney with two 45s and it got clogged last winter.
Never hurts to have a spare just in case but if it is ceramic, a good vacuuming will do it without have to remove it. It is hard to believe that in only one year it went bad but everything is possible.

 

[chemie]

What stove and what cat? My forum reader doesn’t show signatures in this forum, so sorry if you have it listed there.

I have Ashford 25 insert installed last year.
Honestly, I dont know what kind of cat it comes with it( ceramic or steel). I remember reading it that you installed a key damper but I am not a handy person and as far as I remember someone (bholler may be) had said it is more complicated to install a key damper for an insert.