2019-20 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

[MTASH]

The swoosh war ended as soon as somebody mentioned "o'clock," which is numbers on the face of the dial. Unless someone has trouble visualizing that, and needs actual numbers..

Yeah, I wasn't around for the historical debates, but sounds as if numbers were reassigned shortly after taken off the dial...now its clock numbers instead.

 

[Kwehme09]

On my 3rd Fire with through-the -wall OAK installed. Finding a 3” wall vent hood for outside was a pain and it’s cheap plastic. Other than that it was easy. Used flexible B-vent for added durability ($37).

 

[Rob711]

Is it possible to add OAK to an ashford 25 insert?

 

[Ashful]

NEVER mention numbers on the dial... The Great Swoosh War ended only a couple of years ago...

The war isn’t over. Highbeam just paused to reload! [emoji3]

(I know I’m the pot calling the kettle black.)

 

[Diabel]

I like the clock numbers. As long as everyone understands no system is the same hence everyone’s results will be different. But as a reference point it helps I believe, at least it helps me.

 

[Kwehme09]

I like the clock numbers. As long as everyone understands no system is the same hence everyone’s results will be different. But as a reference point it helps I believe, at least it helps me.

we are digressing. No mention of swoosh or numbers without answering my question .

 

[Diabel]

we are digressing. No mention of swoosh or numbers without answering my question .

Sorry, what was your question?

 

[Highbeam]

The war isn’t over. Highbeam just paused to reload! [emoji3]

(I know I’m the pot calling the kettle black.)

We're all trying to talk about the swoosh without being accused of warring about it! I think there are now 7 or so swoosh posts this week with at least one from BKVP. Nothing to war about, we know the new stoves have a swoosh and the old ones have numbers. The clock number scheme is imaginary except for those folks crazy enough to print out a clock face and stick it to the stat face. Yes, I've seen it done.

 

[Diabel]

My kids have a hard time reading an analog clock. BK is onto something......the future of swoosh

 

[Diabel]

My kids have a hard time reading an analog clock. BK is onto something......the future of swoosh

Without numbers that is.

 

[moresnow]

I'd love some sort of adjustable stop on the dial, so we can all set our own "All the way down" point.

I use this (or one that is similar) as a visual reference to dial too, that will reproduce my intended burn each time. Stick one on the backside of the dial background surface.
It gave my better half something to aim the dial at

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[Poindexter]

For a long slow burn, where do most of you set your thermostat dial? and have the stove do it lowest, slowest burn while still staying in the burn-zone with an engaged cat.

what are the factors that cause this variation; draft? wood? stove model?

I don't often rum much below half swoosh. With good dry fuel and some wind I can run 1/3 swoosh, but my insulation envelope is so good on my house there isn't much point, I might as well let it burn out and light up again when the temp drops again.

 

[Ashful]

I’ve mentioned here that I rarely go more than 10 minutes from cold start to glowing cat, whereas others here seem to quote times of 20 - 30 minutes. I think the key some folks miss is knowing when to ignore the cat probe meter. Here is tonight’s cold start on my Ashford 30.1 on the short (15’ish) chimney, right qt the ten minute timer:

But chimney was showing we are good to go, with 350F on surface of single wall telescoping pipe:

So I threw the lever, and instantly had glowing cat. Sorry for the dirty photo, this stove always runs 24-30 hour burns, but that’s mostly just fly ash on the window, and you can still faintly see the glowing combustor behind the flame shield.

Cat probe still shows almost dead cold, even while cat is glowing. The probe is so slow it won’t show active for another ten minutes, even tho glowing cat is 1000F+.

Learn to judge by the look of the fire, or your chimney pipe, and you can go active much earlier, and save a lot of wear and tear on your pipe and bypass retainers or door. The cat probe is a great tool, and beginners should probably follow it for awhile, but you can learn to push that time... by a lot!

 

[trail guy Mike]

But chimney was showing we are good to go, with 350F on surface of single wall telescoping pipe:
...
So I threw the lever, and instantly had glowing cat.

We have an infra-red laser thermometer, and I also decided 350f is a good exhaust temp, to then close the bypass, and cat glows before the probe reads active.

On our Princess insert, the thermostat knob is at 12:00 when wide open, rotating clockwise to 6:00 to shut it down.
I'm experimenting with putting it at 5:00 when it's 50f outside, 4:00 when it's 40, 3:30 when it's 35 out, etc. This will maintain about 70f in the living room. So far, so good.
Of course we are flexible about this, depending if we want to warm it up or cool down, whether it's windy, etc; but these settings seem about right for overnight temperature maintenance.

Loving our Princess!

 

[Holiday]

I’ve mentioned here that I rarely go more than 10 minutes from cold start to glowing cat,

I've noticed this as well and pretty much do the same thing now. It's very delayed on a cold stove.

 

[Ashful]

We have an infra-red laser thermometer, and I also decided 350f is a good exhaust temp, to then close the bypass, and cat glows before the probe reads active.

Cool! In this case, that 350F was on outside of single wall, so exhaust gas was probably closer to 700F. I try to catch it at 250F outside (or 500F on the internal probe I have on my other stove), but this time I was running around and missed when it passed that mark.

I read about people taking 20 - 30 minutes to get to active cat, and that's just way too long for me, if you have dry wood and reliable draft. Maybe some setups take that long, and I remember taking longer than that in my first two years fighting with wet wood, but I suspect most can get away with far less.

 

[Poindexter]

Alright @Ashful is this your metal cat (probably) or your B3? I just want to be clear.

I do not dispute that your are getting away with it. I know your wood is dry.

I generally observe that once my flue gas temp (internal probe on double wall) reaches 1k dF with the loading door closed I need another 8 minutes or so at half swoosh for the combustor probe to come up to active - then I can engage and reopen the throttle to full swoosh, usually with exhaust gas temp around 600-700 dF.

So what are the options here really? All the probe shows us is what the temperature of the air coming through the combustor was a few minutes ago. The combustor probe does not tell us the temperature of the combustor.

My sense of the A30 in operation is the firebox and the combustor are at virtually the same temp up to about +/- 300 dF and then the gasket starts working better so the cat can be hotter than the steel box. It is a 500 pound stove. The fastest way for me to get to a clean plume - did you check your stack?- is to build the biggest fire possible, heat up the whole shebang as quickly as possible and then engage.

May I request a picture of your stack plume with a glowing cat showing an inactive temp on the combustor probe please? EPA SWAT teams (yes, the EPA owns many many guns) do not care two hoots about glowing or not glowing cats, they check plume opacity from the street.

 

[AlbergSteve]

Alright @Ashful is this your metal cat (probably) or your B3? I just want to be clear.

I do not dispute that your are getting away with it. I know your wood is dry.

I generally observe that once my flue gas temp (internal probe on double wall) reaches 1k dF with the loading door closed I need another 8 minutes or so at half swoosh for the combustor probe to come up to active - then I can engage and reopen the throttle to full swoosh, usually with exhaust gas temp around 600-700 dF.

So what are the options here really? All the probe shows us is what the temperature of the air coming through the combustor was a few minutes ago. The combustor probe does not tell us the temperature of the combustor.

My sense of the A30 in operation is the firebox and the combustor are at virtually the same temp up to about +/- 300 dF and then the gasket starts working better so the cat can be hotter than the steel box. It is a 500 pound stove. The fastest way for me to get to a clean plume - did you check your stack?- is to build the biggest fire possible, heat up the whole shebang as quickly as possible and then engage.

May I request a picture of your stack plume with a glowing cat showing an inactive temp on the combustor probe please? EPA SWAT teams (yes, the EPA owns many many guns) do not care two hoots about glowing or not glowing cats, they check plume opacity from the street.

The gauntlet has been thrown, the challenge issued...

 

[SpaceBus]

I don't often rum much below half swoosh. With good dry fuel and some wind I can run 1/3 swoosh, but my insulation envelope is so good on my house there isn't much point, I might as well let it burn out and light up again when the temp drops again.

This is how I run my noncat stoves.

 

[kennyp2339]

This is how I run my noncat stoves.

We call that chasing the dragon here, we as with the BK you can set it and forget it.. please excuse my dry humor.

 

[SpaceBus]

We call that chasing the dragon here, we as with the BK you can set it and forget it.. please excuse my dry humor.

I meant as far as just letting my stoves go out because heat demand is so low. I don't chase burn times, I just heat the house and don't worry about how long the stove burns for. My house just doesn't need much heat.

 

[Ashful]

Alright @Ashful is this your metal cat (probably) or your B3? I just want to be clear.

This is the factory steel cat in the stove on the 15’ flue. I have the B3 in the stove on the 30’ flue, and follow the same routine there when I cold start, but I only cold start that stove maybe 2x per year... it’s running 24/7 for months at a time. The stove on the short flue with the steelcat is in a space with a lot of thermal gain, so I often let that stove go out on warmer or very sunny days.

I generally observe that once my flue gas temp (internal probe on double wall) reaches 1k dF with the loading door closed I need another 8 minutes or so at half swoosh for the combustor probe to come up to active

With bypass open? I have never had a failed light-off at any flue probe temp > 500dF, on the stove where I have the flue probe in double wall (30ft flue) whether on the OEM steel or the B3. Usually the combustor will be glowing within 2 minutes of closing the bypass with flue probe at 500dF, with cat probe still showing nearly dead-cold. My probe is 18” above flue collar.

So what are the options here really?

My suggestion is to try closing the bypass at flue probe = 500-600 dF, or external single-wall at 300dF, and see if you get instant light-off, as I typically see. If not, try 100dF higher... it will still be long before the cat probe shows active.

The fastest way for me to get to a clean plume - did you check your stack?

I have to admit it’s been years since I’ve cared enough to go outside and look at my stack, let alone photograph it. Whenever I’m out in the yard working and happen to glance up at it, it’s almost always clear, but you honestly couldn’t find something I care less about. If the cat is active, that’s the most I can do, that’s what I can control. As to whether that active cat is able to keep the plume clear, that is up to the design of the stove.

May I request a picture of your stack plume with a glowing cat showing an inactive temp on the combustor probe please? EPA SWAT teams (yes, the EPA owns many many guns) do not care two hoots about glowing or not glowing cats, they check plume opacity from the street.

No EPA SWAT here! I will try to remember to get some photos this weekend, if you want, but no promises on me remembering to do it! During the week I leave the house before sunrise and get home after sunset, so there’s no chance for it.

I’m not sure why anyone really cares about having a clear plume, other than those trying to run during burn bans, I don’t think it’s really proof of anything. Can’t you have a colorful plume at < 4.5 g/hr, while remaining below EPA mandates? Who’s to say you’re not running legally at 4.4 g/hr, versus illegally at 4.6 g/hr, based solely on the opacity of your plume? Factor in unknown moisture content, and plume opacity is really a useless measure. Also, is there any actual requirement for homeowners to operate their stove at < 4.5 g/hr? I thought the requirement was solely on the stove manufacturer, to make a stove that can achieve this rating under specified conditions. Is there really any requirement that the homeowner somehow monitor and prove they are operating within this window?

 

[Highbeam]

If the cat is active, that’s the most I can do, that’s what I can control. As to whether that active cat is able to keep the plume clear, that is up to the design of the stove.

Interesting way of thinking. It’s easy to keep the cat meter active.

 

[Highbeam]

Interesting way of thinking. It’s easy to keep the cat meter active.

It's probably how those outdoor wood boiler operators thought while spewing smoke into their neighbor's homes. Then the government banned them. It is for this reason that I want to be a good neighbor and minimize visible emissions. If I don't act responsibly then the government is more likely to step in and take even more control.

 

[Ashful]

It's probably how those outdoor wood boiler operators thought while spewing smoke into their neighbor's homes. Then the government banned them. It is for this reason that I want to be a good neighbor and minimize visible emissions. If I don't act responsibly then the government is more likely to step in and take even more control.

Maybe that’s an issue for you. If I’m working outside and look up at my chimney, the plume is usually clear. When it’s not, it’s easily dissipating within a few feet of the chimney. My nearest neighbors are 400 - 500 feet away, I don’t think they’ll be bothered by it.

I think that comparing this to an OWB is akin to comparing the emissions of a Toyota Camry to a container ship. We do have a OWB at the top of my street, over 3/8 mile away, and even my closest neighbors can easily smell him before they’ll smell me.

To me, acting responsibly is installing the best appliance available, and then operating it properly. Maintaining an active cat for the maximum possible period is doing that, IMO. Would you rather I run longer in bypass, maximizing my particulate output for a longer period, while waiting for the moment when I can engage the cat and have an instantaneously invisible plume? Is that somehow better? After all, that’s what we’re debating, here.