2019-20 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

[Diabel]

You should be able to do it with a recent production HRV, but that is pretty expensive air to be using for combustion. More frequent HRV filter changes or HRV filter cleanings, higher electricity bill. I don't see an advantage unless your drywall is already up and then it would still be disputable to me.

If I could economically install an HRV in my current house an OAK would be part of the install and my drywall went up 40 years ago.

Thank you. I so appreciate this forum. AOK will be going in this coming spring. Again, I joined here a long time ago, I learn something here every season.

 

[KBW]

Regarding loading on hot coals and smoke spillage, here's a trick for anyone who's interested.

Our stove is in a walk out basement. OAK exits at slab level right outside the door, next to my stack of firewood. My procedure: turn up tstat, bypass, crack door, walk outside grab wood and cover up OAK with a piece of plastic and cord. Now all the air is entering stove from front door, air wash is greatly diminished. Go inside, load stove, close door but leave unlatched, back outside and uncover OAK. I don't do it every time but in the warmer weather this seems to help a lot with smoke spillage.

 

[Ashful]

A consideration for avoiding Cat plugging. On a fresh load/reload. While charring/burning in/setting up the new load so to speak. Instead of performing this portion of my start up routine on high I occasionally do it on a somewhat reduced (from high) stat setting. It seems to keep the super charged flames/air flow and potentially airborne fly ash in check/reduced to a degree. Mostly on soft wood or on a deep ash bed.
Shhh. I know. I am treading on thin ice mentioning this As its not exactly according to Hoyle in relation to our manuals. Food for thought. My opinion only as well! Carry on.

Do what works for you, but this is not a viable solution for those of us who run entire loads thru out BKs on the highest thermostat setting. Here is mine, running on high right now, and as it likely will be until lunch time today.

Poindexter is known to spend much of winter with his running WOT, in Alaska.

 

[moresnow]

Do what works for you, but this is not a viable solution for those of us who run entire loads thru out BKs on the highest thermostat setting. Here is mine, running on high right now, and as it likely will be until lunch time today.

Poindexter is known to spend much of winter with his running WOT, in Alaska.

Agreed. However. What percentage of BK users are truly running full loads wide open from start to finish? Or for that matter, any brand/model stove? Just a wild guess but? Would a larger stove be a better choice for providing without running with its tongue hanging out? Curious. Not arguing!

 

[Diabel]

Do what works for you, but this is not a viable solution for those of us who run entire loads thru out BKs on the highest thermostat setting. Here is mine, running on high right now, and as it likely will be until lunch time today.

Poindexter is known to spend much of winter with his running WOT, in Alaska.

I have yet to run mine wide open. The only reason I would do it is to clean the glass.....it would surely get blackened again in the next low run.
What flue temps do you see running it wide open like this?

 

[Holiday]

Regarding loading on hot coals and smoke spillage, here's a trick for anyone who's interested.

Our stove is in a walk out basement. OAK exits at slab level right outside the door, next to my stack of firewood. My procedure: turn up tstat, bypass, crack door, walk outside grab wood and cover up OAK with a piece of plastic and cord. Now all the air is entering stove from front door, air wash is greatly diminished. Go inside, load stove, close door but leave unlatched, back outside and uncover OAK. I don't do it every time but in the warmer weather this seems to help a lot with smoke spillage.

Could you not just set the thermostat to lowest setting? All the air should still be coming through the door and from the stove should be minimal.

 

[Woody Stover]

What flue temps do you see running it wide open like this?

That was the question that immediately popped into my head but I don't know if he monitors his flue temps.

What percentage of BK users are truly running full loads wide open from start to finish? Or for that matter, any brand/model stove? Just a wild guess but? Would a larger stove be a better choice

Right, the strength of a BK is the low-and-slow burn. Seems to me that a different design would be more efficient at extracting heat from a high burn, and would offset more of his heat load.

 

[atf8611]

I recently installed a new Ashford insert and I have a few questions that I'm hoping someone can help out with. The main issue I'm running into is that I just can't seem to turn the stove down low enough. I'm only getting 8-10 hour burns (max, if I really pack it) with the cat falling out as early as 4-5 hours. I normally let it blaze away to get the cat active, then close the bypass and ramp the t-stat down until it bottoms out. Even at the lowest possible setting, I still have very active flames for ~3 hours, then a large mass of red coal until it's all ash.

I did the dollar bill test in 6 or 7 spots and it passed with flying colors.

I have a relatively short flue (about 13'), but I would have thought a poor draft would be easy to snuff out rather than hard to throttle back. I also don't have problems with smoke entering the house or any other normal symptom of poor draft.

Only thing I can think of is the wood might be too dry. I'm currently on pine that was split and left out at least 4 years ago (couldn't even get it to resister using the diy multimeter moisture test). That might factor in to short burn times but I still don't understand why I cant get the fire any lower. This is the same wood I've been using and my old stove with a smaller box and no fancy controls could get similar burn times if I yanked the damper out to 95% shut.

Only other odd thing is I have no trouble snuffing the fire if I jump the gun on closing things off before the wood really catches.

Oh and I suppose one more odd thing, I've never seen my cat beyond 1/4 of the active zone no matter what t-stat setting or fan position. Again this could be partially due to wood being excessively dry but I'm interested to know if this is considered normal.

 

[Highbeam]

The cat gauge on these new model inserts is an electronic on/off gauge with little or no range. Think go/no-go.

The new model inserts are proving to be optimized for a pleasant burning experience with compromises in firebox size and shape that aren’t beneficial to long burn times or efficiency. What I’m saying is don’t expect the same burn time as an ashford stove or even a princess insert.

 

[begreen]

Something doesn't sound right. Regardless of a slightly smaller capacity, those times are short. And at high altitude one would expect the short chimney to be a real liability. Can you get hold of some alpine spruce in your area? That will be much denser.

 

[Highbeam]

I have yet to run mine wide open. The only reason I would do it is to clean the glass.....it would surely get blackened again in the next low run.
What flue temps do you see running it wide open like this?

Note that WOT on a bk is not what it sounds like. The thermostat will automatically close the throttle to limit the stove temperature. These guys are running at max output which is hot, really hot, but the throttle is certainly not wide open.

Also notice how ashful’s glass is not clean despite loads of max output.

Funny how I catch heck for running my noncat hard in a shop but if someone does it in a cold home it’s just operating at max safe output.

 

[Ashful]

Agreed. However. What percentage of BK users are truly running full loads wide open from start to finish? Or for that matter, any brand/model stove? Just a wild guess but? Would a larger stove be a better choice for providing without running with its tongue hanging out? Curious. Not arguing!

Only those who are clogging their cats, I suspect. I didn’t elaborate, but that was the point, the only time I ever experienced cat cloggage was on extended high burns with my 30’ tall chimney. In fact, before adding the pipe damper, I could easily and repeatedly clog a steel cat on-demand, just by running a day or two on high.

As to a bigger stove, I really don’t need to run this thing that hard for most of the year. See note below about bringing house up to temp from 67F.

I have yet to run mine wide open. The only reason I would do it is to clean the glass.....it would surely get blackened again in the next low run.
What flue temps do you see running it wide open like this?

Flue temp is presently 400F by probe measurement 18” above stove. Damper is above that, so it’s likely much cooler above.

I recently installed a new Ashford insert and I have a few questions that I'm hoping someone can help out with. The main issue I'm running into is that I just can't seem to turn the stove down low enough. I'm only getting 8-10 hour burns (max, if I really pack it) with the cat falling out as early as 4-5 hours. I normally let it blaze away to get the cat active, then close the bypass and ramp the t-stat down until it bottoms out. Even at the lowest possible setting, I still have very active flames for ~3 hours, then a large mass of red coal until it's all ash.

I did the dollar bill test in 6 or 7 spots and it passed with flying colors.

I have a relatively short flue (about 13'), but I would have thought a poor draft would be easy to snuff out rather than hard to throttle back. I also don't have problems with smoke entering the house or any other normal symptom of poor draft.

Only thing I can think of is the wood might be too dry. I'm currently on pine that was split and left out at least 4 years ago (couldn't even get it to resister using the diy multimeter moisture test). That might factor in to short burn times but I still don't understand why I cant get the fire any lower. This is the same wood I've been using and my old stove with a smaller box and no fancy controls could get similar burn times if I yanked the damper out to 95% shut.

Only other odd thing is I have no trouble snuffing the fire if I jump the gun on closing things off before the wood really catches.

Oh and I suppose one more odd thing, I've never seen my cat beyond 1/4 of the active zone no matter what t-stat setting or fan position. Again this could be partially due to wood being excessively dry but I'm interested to know if this is considered normal.

It almost sounds like you’re failing to close the bypass damper.

Note that WOT on a bk is not what it sounds like. The thermostat will automatically close the throttle to limit the stove temperature. These guys are running at max output which is hot, really hot, but the throttle is certainly not wide open.

Also notice how ashful’s glass is not clean despite loads of max output.

Funny how I catch heck for running my noncat hard in a shop but if someone does it in a cold home it’s just operating at max safe output.

The glass is clean now! That photo was just 20-30 minutes after a cold start, and prior load was run at 12-hour rate. I had fallen asleep on the couch watching that old Rankin-Bass Rudolph special with the kids last night, and didn’t feel like loading when I woke up later and dragged myself to bed. So house was 67F this morning, and I was using the stove to get us back toward 73F. Mission accomplished!

 

[MTASH]

I recently installed a new Ashford insert and I have a few questions that I'm hoping someone can help out with. The main issue I'm running into is that I just can't seem to turn the stove down low enough. I'm only getting 8-10 hour burns (max, if I really pack it) with the cat falling out as early as 4-5 hours. I normally let it blaze away to get the cat active, then close the bypass and ramp the t-stat down until it bottoms out. Even at the lowest possible setting, I still have very active flames for ~3 hours, then a large mass of red coal until it's all ash.

I did the dollar bill test in 6 or 7 spots and it passed with flying colors.

I have a relatively short flue (about 13'), but I would have thought a poor draft would be easy to snuff out rather than hard to throttle back. I also don't have problems with smoke entering the house or any other normal symptom of poor draft.

Only thing I can think of is the wood might be too dry. I'm currently on pine that was split and left out at least 4 years ago (couldn't even get it to resister using the diy multimeter moisture test). That might factor in to short burn times but I still don't understand why I cant get the fire any lower. This is the same wood I've been using and my old stove with a smaller box and no fancy controls could get similar burn times if I yanked the damper out to 95% shut.

Only other odd thing is I have no trouble snuffing the fire if I jump the gun on closing things off before the wood really catches.

Oh and I suppose one more odd thing, I've never seen my cat beyond 1/4 of the active zone no matter what t-stat setting or fan position. Again this could be partially due to wood being excessively dry but I'm interested to know if this is considered normal.

I live at 5400' elevation and have 12' of chimney on my Ashford 30. I'm really surprised that you can turn the thermostat all the way down as I have never been able to run lower than the 3:00 position. It really sounds like you have air entering the stove from somewhere. Do the inserts have an ash plug?

I do know that earlier this season I forgot to close my bypass after an early morning reload and the stove was cold when I got home, so it very well could be an issue with the bypass, but that doesn't really explain the inability to turn the stove down.

BTW I burn Lodgepole at 5-7% and have no trouble getting extended burns. I am currently on a 12+ hour burn and the overnight low was 4 degrees F. Its currently 12 degees F. So I really don't think there is an issue with your wood.

 

[Highbeam]

I live at 5400' elevation and have 12' of chimney on my Ashford 30. I'm really surprised that you can turn the thermostat all the way down as I have never been able to run lower than the 3:00 position. It really sounds like you have air entering the stove from somewhere. Do the inserts have an ash plug?

I do know that earlier this season I forgot to close my bypass after an early morning reload and the stove was cold when I got home, so it very well could be an issue with the bypass, but that doesn't really explain the inability to turn the stove down.

BTW I burn Lodgepole at 5-7% and have no trouble getting extended burns. I am currently on a 12+ hour burn and the overnight low was 4 degrees F. Its currently 12 degees F. So I really don't think there is an issue with your wood.

You think your wood is 5-7%? I didn’t think that was possible.

The ashford insert is an entirely different stove, firebox, thermostat, design, intended audience, than the ashford 30. You can’t compare thermostat settings with any expectation of similarity.

 

[MTASH]

You think your wood is 5-7%? I didn’t think that was possible.

The ashford insert is an entirely different stove, firebox, thermostat, design, intended audience, than the ashford 30. You can’t compare thermostat settings with any expectation of similarity.

It's beetle kill that has been dead for 10+ years, in a very arid climate.

I realize the insert is a different animal, but I am trying to provide a point of reference as his results seem so far off. Do you think it's reasonable to close the thermostat shut on 13' of chimney?

 

[Highbeam]

It's beetle kill that has been dead for 10+ years, in a very arid climate.

I realize the insert is a different animal, but I am trying to provide a point of reference as his results seem so far off. Do you think it's reasonable to close the thermostat shut on 13' of chimney?

Every model is different and maybe in an effort to provide a pretty and clean burn, the hole in the throttle blade of these new insert models is especially large. Your point is correct for the more traditional models, the lowest stat setting kills the flame. Also correct that leaky gaskets should be fixed if found.

 

[Jeff in Maine]

I cannot imagine how quickly 4 year-old Pine would burn but I would assume very very fast? I burn all hardwood but I have a lot of pine on the property. I get that in some areas this is all you have to work with but 4 year old Pine.. I cant imagine that it would last long? maybe I am way off base but my eastern white pine would not.

 

[Raoul]

Could you not just set the thermostat to lowest setting? All the air should still be coming through the door and from the stove should be minimal.

(Ashford insert)

This is what I will try next. I’ve gotten into some shorter splits and N/S and being quick about it has worked well.

Also 8 hours if I’m lucky burn time. This means enough coals to relight.

I have never seen the blade move from where I place it with the lever. Is this the one that moves with heat change?

 

[black smoke signals]

Using Beetle Kill for my insert didn’t set with my stove finally switched (thanks forum members)to Spruce and Elm. Fighting the 5-7 percent wood issue for me I had excessive cat temperature plus no way to control flames (pitch) being most of my issues. Today I’m experienced 75 mph wind gusts at 6200 ft but I only have small hot fires with the thermostat blade bouncing off the seat. Hope you find your problem!

 

[atf8611]

Thanks for all the input with my problem.

The bypass door is always closed after I get the fire going. Hard to miss as well since it sticks into the room with the Ashford.

I have a stash of mixed hardwood, plus I'm just about out of the super old pine. I'll try a full load of hardwood tonight and see if I notice a drastic difference. My small sample of what's inside right now indicates a 15-18% MC (no idea what the exact species is). I've also got plenty of pine that's more recently split so fingers crossed it's just the really dry wood. I'd love to get into more dense stuff but I've got too much free pine laying around to justify spending money on wood.

Are there any other inlets to check? I'm going to have a good look at the inlet damper and make sure it's not getting stuck.

Even if the bypass gasket was somehow compromised, I wouldn't think that would cause my problem since that's on the exhaust side?

 

[black smoke signals]

ATF if there was a large bypass leak the fire box wouldn’t maintain heat inside the box! It’s designed to escape to the cat for a cleaner hotter burn. Do you have any picture of your inside and outside install could help us with trouble shooting!

 

[MissMac]

ATF if there was a large bypass leak the fire box wouldn’t maintain heat inside the box! It’s designed to escape to the cat for a cleaner hotter burn.

This!

 

[MissMac]

fellas, while you help ATF with his troubleshooting, i was hoping for some input on a burn i just did. wanted to burn down the coals in my stove, so raked everything forward, and loaded one nice 5" split of jack pine E-W on top of it, at the front of the stove. Ran it on high, and it produced what i consider an unacceptable amount of smoke out the chimney until in the coaling phase. Did I actually overwhelm the cat with one piece of pine?

 

[black smoke signals]

I know jetsam lays down pine for coals! I just wait a little while before I load it up again. Can’t say I have looked out to check this but sounds like cat was overwhelmed but this shouldn’t be a problem except in high wind where your forced to turn down t-stat

 

[Diabel]

fellas, while you help ATF with his troubleshooting, i was hoping for some input on a burn i just did. wanted to burn down the coals in my stove, so raked everything forward, and loaded one nice 5" split of jack pine E-W on top of it, at the front of the stove. Ran it on high, and it produced what i consider an unacceptable amount of smoke out the chimney until in the coaling phase. Did I actually overwhelm the cat with one piece of pine?

Never have to do this with the Bk (part time burner). With the VC in the dead of winter when I have to burn down coals, I either keep the bypass closed open the air 100%, this will burn the excess coals down quickly (30min) with the cat and stove top temp actually go up. Or, I open the by pass and toss couple of small pieces of hemlock to burn down the coals quickly. Never I toss any wood in and close the by pass at once.