2019-20 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

[kennyp2339]

But with a BK one only needs to start the fire once a year in fall, right? Then it's on to reloading every day and a half. If so, then many less starts.

Lit a fire in the Princess Wednesday night, fully loaded at 7pm, turned the t-stat down to my minimum setting went to work, got home this morning at 3:30am, still had hot coals. That's 32.5 hrs time elapse, would have just needed a few small pieces of kindling to get going again, but the house was still 70 deg inside and I was a little tired.

 

[Woody Stover]

reloading every day and a half. If so, then many less starts.

You can still do a top-down of sorts; Push the coals back, grabbing a nice shovel-full of big ones. Load big wood in the bottom, smaller splits top front, dump the coals on top, add kindling. Kind of a pain but it can be done..

 

[Ashful]

But with a BK one only needs to start the fire once a year in fall, right? Then it's on to reloading every day and a half. If so, then many less starts.

I know you’re being facetious, but yes... this is possible.

 

[jetsam]

I usually start about 3-4 fires a year. 2-3 in the fall as I need small fires for the first couple chilly nights. I also shut down for a chimney sweeping in late november before the cold weather really sets in, so that's one more.

I'm planning to burn a lot less wood this year (solar panels!), but not really start any extra fires (the stove will be running on 24 hour cycles instead of 8 hour cycles for the winter).

Right now I have it doing 12 hour loads of branchwood policed up from the yard- tough to do 24 hour burns with that much airspace in the firebox. I probably won't use any wood off my stacks until December.

"Running on the hole" in local parlance. (I think this is Highbeam's fault.)

 

[BoilerBob]

I bought a new to me, dealer demo sirocco 30.1 which I used last winter. No problems with running it. Only slight issue was on very windy days I had too much draft. No over fire as the thermostat looked after that, it just got too warm in the house.
I added a pipe damper this fall. Not burning yet so I can’t comment if it helped.
My question is, While I was installing the pipe damper I removed the BK cat probe thermometer and noticed the probe being 4” long. I don’t have the convection deck so I think the probe is the wrong one.
I read 2” probe without convection deck.

Is it the wrong one? Or does it matter?

 

[lsucet]

No over fire as the thermostat looked after that, it just got too warm in the house.

I don't know how the damper will help you with that cause the reason you use a damper is, to control draft, and with the correct draft you will have a hotter firebox, equal more heat staying in the house instead of going up the chimney plus for those with tall chimney it helps with overfire/overdraft.
How tall is the chimney? How do you know you have the correct draft? Possibly you need to experiment a little more and get to know your setup and what is your lower setting. Is you house well insulated? The damper can control overdraft as mentioned before and overdraft can cause a hotter firebox with excess of heat going up the flue. But you feel it is controllable just by using the thermostat (something that these stoves are good at it).

 

[BoilerBob]

I don't know how the damper will help you with that cause the reason you use a damper is, to control draft, and with the correct draft you will have a hotter firebox, equal more heat staying in the house instead of going up the chimney plus for those with tall chimney it helps with overfire/overdraft.
How tall is the chimney? How do you know you have the correct draft? Possibly you need to experiment a little more and get to know your setup and what is your lower setting. Is you house well insulated? The damper can control overdraft as mentioned before and overdraft can cause a hotter firebox with excess of heat going up the flue. But you feel it is controllable just by using the thermostat (something that these stoves are good at it).

My house is really tight and well insulated my chimney is 17’ tall. My heat loss is only 15000 btu/hr. I’m on a cliff by the water, westerly exposure so we get very windy conditions sometimes. So with the thermostat on low the stove still puts out too much heat, not extreme, just like to be able to reduce draft a bit. I do get solar gains also.
My question was about probe length.

 

[Woody Stover]

on a cliff by the water, westerly exposure...with the thermostat on low the stove still puts out too much heat.

OK, we'll need pics from your perch on the cliff, to better assess the particulars of your situation.
That's gotta be a first; The BK, KING of the no-heat-output burn, is still running too hot. If you have a tight house, plus solar gain, there are probably quite a few days where you don't have to start a fire at all...?
You could try partially plugging the hole in the air inlet plate, but under normal conditions (no wind, moderate draft) you would have to make sure you don't close down the air too far, or the cat would stall. I guess from what I read, most BKs will stall the cat if you turn the air too low.
I don't know how cat stoves can pass the EPA tests when the cat can be stalled by cutting the air too much, yet they require the non-cats to keep burning clean no matter what...you can't stall the reburn, even by cutting the air all the way..???

 

[BoilerBob]

OK, we'll need pics from your perch on the cliff, to better assess the particulars of your situation.
That's gotta be a first; The BK, KING of the no-heat-output burn, is still running too hot. If you have a tight house, plus solar gain, there are probably quite a few days where you don't have to start a fire at all...?
You could try partially plugging the hole in the air inlet plate, but under normal conditions (no wind, normal draft) you would have to make sure you don't close down the air too far, or the cat would stall. I guess from what I read, most BKs will stall the cat if you turn the air too low.
I don't know how cat stoves can pass the EPA tests when the cat can be stalled by cutting the air too much, yet they require the non-cats to keep burning clean no matter what...you can't stall the reburn, even by cutting the air all the way..???

It’s not running too hot!
I never said that.
Yes many days I don’t need a fire.
We haven’t had a fire yet or any heat on this fall because we don’t need any. Yes in Nova Scotia Canada. The sun heats the house up to 76 daytime, still 70 in the morning.
The BK is not a problem, it works fine. Any other stove would drive me out.

I asked a probe length question. That’s all.

 

[Woody Stover]

It’s not running too hot!
I never said that.

So with the thermostat on low the stove still puts out too much heat, not extreme

Just a matter of semantics, I guess..In my book, too much heat is too much heat, weather it is "extreme" or not. 76 is a little warm for me..but maybe not for my wife.
I also don't think "any other stove" would drive me out. I would just burn a short load in another stove, and it sounds like the house holds heat very well, so it would be in a comfortable range for many hours after the load burned out. The low-burn feature is over-rated in my book, but others' mileage obviously varies..to each, his own.
As far as probe length, if the cat is situated vertically and the probe drops in from the top, parallel to the cat face, it may not make a lot of difference where the probe tip lies as long as it's in front of the glowing face the same distance away. Owners of that particular stove can flesh out the details..

 

[MMH]

got it. what do you do about overnight then? I'm thinking the stove overnight cant make it a whole 7 hours without dipping out of the active zone. Although I haven't really had a chance to play with that yet I have only done 2 fires in it

I’m running the ashford 30.2 (similar) with similar pipe set up as yours, my stalling point is at 2 o clock on the dial; I’m burning pine and have no problem getting 10-12 hour burns and over night burns with the air at 3 o clock. Just takes some experimentation, you shouldn’t have much issues either unless the size of fire box is vastly different.

 

[jetsam]

I bought a new to me, dealer demo sirocco 30.1 ... I removed the BK cat probe thermometer and noticed the probe being 4” long. I don’t have the convection deck so I think the probe is the wrong one.
I read 2” probe without convection deck.

Is it the wrong one? Or does it matter?

I think that's a @BKVP question unless we have another regular with a sirocco 30.1.

I would doubt that you have a problem unless the probe is bottoming out. You don't want a too-short probe because it may not end up in the airflow behind the cat, but longer should in theory be fine if it's not touching the bottom. (I am assuming that the Sirocco's probe comes out above a flat-bottomed airway behind the cat, like my stove does.)

 

[Highbeam]

I bought a new to me, dealer demo sirocco 30.1 which I used last winter. No problems with running it. Only slight issue was on very windy days I had too much draft. No over fire as the thermostat looked after that, it just got too warm in the house.

Like the other freestanding BK stoves. The cat probe drops in vertically behind the vertically oriented cat in these stoves. The probe tip is supposed to end up within 1/2" of the center of the catalyst and any variability of probe length would vary the location of the probe up and down but not closer or farther from the back face of the cat element.

What we don't know (as owners of other models) is the exact length of probe required to get the tip right behind the center of the cat element on the sirroco. If you had the cat out of the stove you could measure to be sure.

1/2" one way or the other doesn't seem too important but I can't be certain.

 

[BoilerBob]

Like the other freestanding BK stoves. The cat probe drops in vertically behind the vertically oriented cat in these stoves. The probe tip is supposed to end up within 1/2" of the center of the catalyst and any variability of probe length would vary the location of the probe up and down but not closer or farther from the back face of the cat element.

What we don't know (as owners of other models) is the exact length of probe required to get the tip right behind the center of the cat element on the sirroco. If you had the cat out of the stove you could measure to be sure.

1/2" one way or the other doesn't seem too important but I can't be certain.

Thanks for the info, the cat 4” wide and is horizontal on the sirocco, so I think my probe tip is close to the lower edge. I had just messaged BKVP. I will respond with his reply.

 

[BoilerBob]

Just got word from BKVP,
Both probes work.
Thank you all.

 

[jetsam]

Like the other freestanding BK stoves. The cat probe drops in vertically behind the vertically oriented cat in these stoves. The probe tip is supposed to end up within 1/2" of the center of the catalyst and any variability of probe length would vary the location of the probe up and down but not closer or farther from the back face of the cat element.

What we don't know (as owners of other models) is the exact length of probe required to get the tip right behind the center of the cat element on the sirroco. If you had the cat out of the stove you could measure to be sure.

1/2" one way or the other doesn't seem too important but I can't be certain.

Well, we do know that these probes are field calibrated by the end user to +-100°, so probably not THAT important.

 

[MTASH]

Please do not remove the fronts from the AF30 or AF20 models. They are very difficult to align in the field. We use very customized jigs to make certain the front/door alignment are correct. For the porcelain models it can also result in damages, such as chips or scratches.

For those not familiar with these two units, the cast door and front are one assembly. Getting them aligned in the field is going to be a challenge.

Removing the top or two side panels (also cast) are routinely removed for both making the stove lighter for handling and also door gasket tension adjustments.

Holiday, let me know if you run into alignment issues please.

BKVP

Shoot...I removed mine for the install as well. That assembly is one heavy sumbeech. I don't recall there being any sort of warning about this in the manual, something like "Do not remove unless absolutely necessary for replacement"?

We simply re-centered it upon reassembly using the same shims/washers, is there something specific to watch out for?

 

[Holiday]

Shoot...I removed mine for the install as well. That assembly is one heavy sumbeech. I don't recall there being any sort of warning about this in the manual, something like "Do not remove unless absolutely necessary for replacement"?

We simply re-centered it upon reassembly using the same shims/washers, is there something specific to watch out for?

More or less try to centre the stove edge to the gasket plus get even pressure top and bottom, can see by the impression in the gasket.
On mine I had to lift the whole assembly a bit before I tightened it up.

 

[ratsrepus]

...or an old Jotul cat stove.

or a jotul tube stove as well, mine used ti almost blow the top off

 

[Ashful]

or a jotul tube stove as well, mine used ti almost blow the top off

Wow... that's the first I recall hearing that. Back when I was having these back-puffing issues, it seemed it was pretty much isolated to those of us with F12's and Woodstock Fireviews. This issue seems to be too common, with both of these stoves.

I'd have thought the tube stoves can't turn down far enough to cause this issue on most setups, but I guess it can still happen!

 

[BKVP]

Wow... that's the first I recall hearing that. Back when I was having these back-puffing issues, it seemed it was pretty much isolated to those of us with F12's and Woodstock Fireviews. This issue seems to be too common, with both of these stoves.

I'd have thought the tube stoves can't turn down far enough to cause this issue on most setups, but I guess it can still happen!

Delayed combustion/ignitions can happen in any stove. It's all a matter of air to fuel ratio. I can assure you it happens with all technologies as well.

 

[Pgaron]

question, the colder it gets, ( will it get easier to maintain lower settings for burns) my thinking now is im not getting the advertised burn times because the outside temp hits 38F on a cold night at best on the shoulder months................... i have filled this pig full to the brim and set it to medium and i cant get more than 7 hrs burn in the active range

its a new install should i call them back out here or is this expected. normal day temps lately are like 69 during the day 46 at night........................ my house insulation keeps us at lowest 65 at night.........

 

[BKVP]

Please post a picture of your full load.

 

[MMH]

question, the colder it gets, ( will it get easier to maintain lower settings for burns) my thinking now is im not getting the advertised burn times because the outside temp hits 38F on a cold night at best on the shoulder months................... i have filled this pig full to the brim and set it to medium and i cant get more than 7 hrs burn in the active range

its a new install should i call them back out here or is this expected. normal day temps lately are like 69 during the day 46 at night........................ my house insulation keeps us at lowest 65 at night.........

I don’t know if you can zoom in, but this is a typical load for me, 3 large splits on bottom with 4-5 small to medium splits on top with my kindling, all pine. Still room to stuff wood if I wanted to; this will get me overnight, typically I’ll start fire at 20:00 and get up at 05:30 I still have some coals left to get new fire going and my cat is still active; lows overnight teens-20s sometimes 30s depending on the day. If your really stuffing your stove full to brim and getting 7 hours sounds like a wood problem or an air leak. As BKVP asked would like to see a pic of your stove loaded

 

[Ashful]

question, the colder it gets, ( will it get easier to maintain lower settings for burns) my thinking now is im not getting the advertised burn times because the outside temp hits 38F on a cold night at best on the shoulder months...................

Yes, as it gets colder draft will improve, and you will be able to maintain lower settings without stalling the cat.

i have filled this pig full to the brim and set it to medium and i cant get more than 7 hrs burn in the active range

I'm not sure what you call medium, and you don't even state which stove you are burning (BK has many models), or if your newly-installed stove is even new or used. You also don't state what type of wood you are burning, or it's condition, so any answer here is going to be pretty ambiguous. I can get consistent 30+ hour burn times on an Ashford 30 on 15 feet of chimney, meaning the cat is in the active region of the thermometer for 30 hours, when burning nice dry red oak in temperatures consistently < 40F. If the temperature climbs much above 40F then I cannot turn the stove down far enough to hit 30+ hours on that short chimney, and if I burn anything less than oak I also can't quite hit those numbers as the wood disappears faster. But I would have to burn at a pretty high rate (like above 4 o'clock on the Ashford 30 dial, I suspect) to consume a full load of oak in 7 hours.

Those who burn pine, or other wood that I wouldn't bother using, will see shorter burn times. But I suspect even then they'd be able to do at least double the burn time you are seeing.

its a new install should i call them back out here or is this expected.

I wouldn't assume this is an install problem, so I'd not jump to call them back right away, until we can get a better idea of what is happening. Here' a start:

1. What model stove, and is it new or used?
2. What species wood are you burning?
3. How long has your wood been split and stacked, and under what conditions?
4. Describe your chimney setup, height, diameter, pipe type, cap, elbows, etc.
5. Describe your operating procedures.