2017/2018 VC owners thread

[Cast Iron]

Another thing to think about cast iron. How handy are you? With the learning curve that is is going to happen and the maintenance that these VC stoves require are you planning on doing this your self or are you going to hire it out? I’m not making assumptions so don’t take it personal just some people can spin a wrench and some can’t. VC stoves are not stoves for those who can’t.

Good point., thanks it makes sense. With the basic old dislike for VC based on little actual hands-on work, not taking in any new info, and the inability to read the info in my posts, can we just have some actual owner' use of the actual Defiant/Encore Flexburns post about what they think from use ?
The official Flexburn Service Manual is well done for repairs and rebuilding. The other 2 stoves I investigated BK and Woodstock don't give out service manuals either. No, I'm not Mr. Handy, but from the pics and diagrams, and instructions the main part that looks like future problems is the damper ( not mentioned by Holler BTW ).
From posts on rebuilding on hearthnet of the earlier VC cat stoves, that damper is the same in the Flexburns and doesn't look well engineered. Even BK and Woodstock stoves have had minor build problems that have been resolved. Give BKVP a big fat hand for his work !
Long reply, sorry. But the negatives posted from non VC Flexburn 2in1 owners don't add to the knowledge base I'm wanting.
So, look: research on hearthnet, demands from the partner, owners experiences WITH THIS STOVE, Service Manual, dealer reactions to warranty claims from the factory, the warranty ( read it, it is pretty clear what is covered ), original post demands from The Wife. The Wife says.....
Can any company change a bad rep with transformation of builds ? GM ? Japanese vehicles ( not so long ago they were tin rattle traps ) before Demming ? Could it be that Vermont Castings' holder HHT has improved their ISO quality and warranty service equal to say BK ? Maybe not like a maker like Woodstock ( coul;dn't you guys in N.H.
make a top loader ? ) .

 

[bholler]

Good point., thanks it makes sense. With the basic old dislike for VC based on little actual hands-on work, not taking in any new info, and the inability to read the info in my posts, can we just have some actual owner' use of the actual Defiant/Encore Flexburns post about what they think from use ?
The official Flexburn Service Manual is well done for repairs and rebuilding. The other 2 stoves I investigated BK and Woodstock don't give out service manuals either. No, I'm not Mr. Handy, but from the pics and diagrams, and instructions the main part that looks like future problems is the damper ( not mentioned by Holler BTW ).
From posts on rebuilding on hearthnet of the earlier VC cat stoves, that damper is the same in the Flexburns and doesn't look well engineered. Even BK and Woodstock stoves have had minor build problems that have been resolved. Give BKVP a big fat hand for his work !
Long reply, sorry. But the negatives posted from non VC Flexburn 2in1 owners don't add to the knowledge base I'm wanting.
So, look: research on hearthnet, demands from the partner, owners experiences WITH THIS STOVE, Service Manual, dealer reactions to warranty claims from the factory, the warranty ( read it, it is pretty clear what is covered ), original post demands from The Wife. The Wife says.....
Can any company change a bad rep with transformation of builds ? GM ? Japanese vehicles ( not so long ago they were tin rattle traps ) before Demming ? Could it be that Vermont Castings' holder HHT has improved their ISO quality and warranty service equal to say BK ? Maybe not like a maker like Woodstock ( coul;dn't you guys in N.H.
make a top loader ? ) .

I have not seen any problems with dampers on flex burns yet. And it was never the most common issue with the older ones either. Yes things can warp there and cause problems but usually not till 8 to 10 years later. Or it the stove is abused.

I really dont understand why you are discounting my input and the input of defiant 3 simply because we dont own the stove. We work on the stoves and deal with the problems that arise. To me that is pretty valid information.

We can read the info in your posts. But you also asked for input on the stoves which was given. If you didnt want that input why ask for it. It is clear that if your requirements are not negoitable the only stove that will work ia a vc. So just get the stove.

Yes i have a dislike of vc based on the horrible stoves they put out in the past and the horrible customer service they provided. And yes these stoves are an improvement. But those improvements dont bring them up to meet the durability of most other stoves on the market. That is an opinion formed from working on stoves every day and comparing these stoves to the others available. And no one here has contested that.

As far as the tech manual no most other stoves dont offer that. You know why because it isnt needed they dont take the work that vc stove do.

 

[Cast Iron]

So, from you actual hands-on users and real time repair techs WITH the new and improved company's owners (HHT) and the real improvements on the Flexburns,
what do you think. After heating with the Defiant or Encore Flexburns, any pros and/or cons ?
Can any maker with past problems and bad reps recover ?
Will BKVP go to work for HHT ?

 

[Dobish]

Cast Iron, I have given my feedback. I feel like there are only a few of us that are on this forum that are using the newer 2n1, and they are relatively new. Mine was installed 3 years ago.

Since you are specifically asking about these stoves (there are a few other threads about the 2040 if you do a search), I will give you my feedback:

• The stove heats up nice, but I have never really been forced to open my windows. That being said;
  • I engage my cat when it is up to temp, or maybe a little early
  • I live in a very drafty house with poor air movement and a bizarre layout (1900 sq ft)
  • I burn a mix of woods, but Elm is about the highest BTU wood that i've thrown at it.
• Burn times vary depending on outside temps, airflow, and wood type
  • I load my stove the same every time- about 2/3 of the way
  • with the cat not engaged, I am looking at going through a load of wood in about 2 hours
  • with the cat engaged, and air 1/2 closed, I am looking anywhere between 5 hours for pine/aspen combo to 9 hours with Elm
• Issues I have encountered
  • Glass gets super dirty if the wood is sub par
  • cat will not engage if wood is sub par (i have found 15% burns great, 18% not so much), it will stall out
  • Cracked CAT. I pulled my cat one day, and it was cracked. I called VC and they referred me to my dealer, who replaced it under warranty. I had to wait about 3 weeks for it, but the old cat still worked.
  • Damper Lever- My damper lever has somehow reversed itself, so instead of being on the bottom and pulling it forwards and backwards (like a pendulum), it now is on the top, so it is more like a lever, less like a pendulum. I have not torn it apart to get it back to how it should be, it actually seems to be easier to me. Damper still closes all the way
  • creosote buildup- i clean my chimney 2-3 times a season, and if you are burning sub par wood, or temps too low, I have noticed a lot of creosote. Again, user error/ improper training for those throwing things in the fire, and sub par wood. I just cleaned it a few months ago, and am only burning really low MC wood, so we will see if that makes a difference.
  • it is heavy and I had to try and unload it from my truck without any assistance.

 

[Kevin Weis]

I've used the Encore flex burn for about 6 weeks now. The stove was made in February 17'. It was a year old in the crate when I bought it from the dealer. This model was made apparently a few months or maybe more after HHT changed the size of the porcelain access panel to make it thicker than the one before due to the panel apparently breaking frequently on the older ones. With that said, my access panel still did not fit properly and was too small by about 3/16" all the way around and nearly fell back out into the stove because of this. The other issue was that puff backs can happen easily when there is too much small wood stacked in the stove whereby it will tend to all "off gas" at once and the gases ignite at the top of the stove under the griddle. This causes a positive pressure and will leak smoke out the griddle gasket and some other gasket if intense enough. The combustor is small enough that regardless of the draft the ignited gases can't pass through the combuster/catalyst fast enough as it is actually a "choke point" by design for the catalyst to operate properly. I consider this a design flaw that needs to be corrected somehow. No matter what kind, size or amount of wood you can stuff in there it should be able to cause this problem if there is adequate draft IMO.

After reading and re-reading the owners manual and lots of advise in this forum (thanks!) I have been able to work around these issues strickly adhearing to the directions with getting a good bed of coals started, then some bigger wood, then some big wood with the right moisture content, I have then had few problems. As I've said before if you take any one of these out of the "equation" including a really good draft, you will have problems. Stay with the "equation" it runs well. I am resolving the panel issue so I'm not though that into the mix at the end of the day. I like the top load and ash removal system. Again playing by the rules it will hold a fire overnight enough so that in the morning after 8 hours the fire is easily restarted from the coals left (Mulberry and Walnut). Getting back to the puffbacking, I've also been told that lots of small wood instead of big wood actually creates more surface area for off gassing and hence the problem with the puffbacking. Size matters! I guess all the catalytic stoves have this same basic concept of routing the smoke though a choking diaphragm of some sort where a catalyst would be located to effect the after burn required for the emissions.

So Cast Iron, If you chose the VC 2in1 make sure the access panel to the catalyst fits properly, adhere by the "rules" set forth in the manual and per above and I think you will have no problem. Just to be specific about the big wood though, I'm talking about 6" - 8". Can squeeze it in there is best. Anyways this is my two cents worth on this. Wish I would have done a little more research, might have gotten a different stove but might not have. The Encore, I'll keep at least into the next year and maybe get it/me dialed in more operating it. I'll leave with this. The manual says that operating this stove is an "art not a science". I just have to disagree with that given all the specific parameters it takes to operate it as designed. Kevin.

 

[Cast Iron]

Confession: the 15+ year old Oslo to be replaced by ( almost deciding ) a 'new/improved' VC Flexburn has been abused.
To you Jotul Oslo owners, DON"T CRACK THE ASH DOOR OPEN for firing. It will crack the top plate as we know too well.
Also, the enamel stoves don't need the yearly painting. look better long term, worth the extra money, clean up easy, which we did not do.
Cheap at the time the Oslo came.

 

[bholler]

Confession: the 15+ year old Oslo to be replaced by ( almost deciding ) a 'new/improved' VC Flexburn has been abused.
To you Jotul Oslo owners, DON"T CRACK THE ASH DOOR OPEN for firing. It will crack the top plate as we know too well.
Also, the enamel stoves don't need the yearly painting. look better long term, worth the extra money, clean up easy, which we did not do.
Cheap at the time the Oslo came.

Non enamel stoves dont need painted every year or even every 5 years. Unless you boil water on them. Which can be hard on enamel to.

And you killed an oslo which are pretty bulletproof stoves and now you are getting a vc??? Again good luck.

 

[begreen]

The paint on cast iron stoves can dull down and look kind of lackluster after 2-3 years. It's not necessary to repaint them, but I did with our old Resolute. I repainted a 10yr old Avalon I sold last fall for the same reason. The stove wasn't abused in any way, but the paint had become dull. It's why I bought enameled Jotuls. Our 1984 F602 still looks good with just a wipe down with a damp rag. The paint on cast iron jacketed stoves does not get as hot. I am pleased that after almost 10 yrs. the paint on the T6 still looks pretty good.

 

[Cast Iron]

The cast and steel stoves had over the years all become "splotchy" and dull after a season of hard burning. Any cook or wood stove will do the same if used hard. I made the dumb move using stove black once, only once. Drove us and dog and kids out of the house at the first fire. The original VC Vigilant ( great design WITH a secondary air flap), did look bad after each year of heat. Hi temp engine paint lasted just awhile. Then a Lange in red enamel, and the Begreen Jotul 602 in green porcelain stepped in for spares.
The cracked Oslo will go somewhere nice. It needs other parts too.
BKVP: where is that blue/black or red enamel top loading Ashford ? She wants one.

 

[bholler]

The cast and steel stoves had over the years all become "splotchy" and dull after a season of hard burning. Any cook or wood stove will do the same if used hard. I made the dumb move using stove black once, only once. Drove us and dog and kids out of the house at the first fire. The original VC Vigilant ( great design WITH a secondary air flap), did look bad after each year of heat. Hi temp engine paint lasted just awhile. Then a Lange in red enamel, and the Begreen Jotul 602 in green porcelain stepped in for spares.
The cracked Oslo will go somewhere nice. It needs other parts too.
BKVP: where is that blue/black or red enamel top loading Ashford ? She wants one.

I find that they really only get splotchy if they are over fired. Yes the top will usually be a little duller than the sides but I just repainted my 8 year old regency and that was only because we moved and I figured I should do it while it was outside. Yes they do dull with heat but it should be pretty even dulling and shouldn't look bad unless you are over firing it.

One thing is the quality of paint. Engine paint and the cheaper stuff like high heat rustolium wont last long no but if you get good stuff like stove brite or aw perkins paint it will last al long time.

 

[Cast Iron]

Thx for all the advice from the VC owners and rebuilders of VC stoves. Learned a lot from you. Too bad that VC has a tough road ahead to restore its rep, but few companies that failed ( like GM, Japanese/S. Korean cars ) can re-do service and quality standards and get a good name back.
The suggestion to find a reliable dealer makes sense for any warranty stuff , may have found one. So far all the detailed research may pay off IF and when we get the Flexburn in enamel ( called "Twilight", actually blue/black) since looks are important. The stove is an appliance in the living room, not hidden away in a dingy, spider webbed cellar. Who want to heat dirt around the foundation ? Put the stove where you spend time with the kids.....and wife, of course.
Stove to be ordered when it gets some warm in northern N.E.......maybe June ?

 

[Diabel]

It has been relatively warm (mainly solar gain) here for the past few days. I got lazy and let the furnace stretch its legs.

But also, for the past week when opening the top load I would get a bit of smoke escape into the room. Plus, on occasion I would hear creo falling down the flue.
It was time to look into the chimney (I cleaned the pipe mid Dec). In the past I would always get couple of cups of brown powder and a bit of black sticky stuff around the cap. This time, to my surprise the cap was pretty clean but just below about 3-4' down from the cap the creo was pretty black and sticky, the rest of the pipe down brown and flaky. Plus, I did not measure but it looks like there was quite a bit more stuff.

The cat is 4 years old ( it looks all in one piece) but I think it is on its last season.

 

[Cast Iron]

Cats are supposed to last about 12K hours + or - burning.
Yes, I do wonder if the 1/2 thick cat in the 'new' Flexburn will last as long. HHT/VC WILL warranty the cat for 3 years.

 

[Diabel]

Cats are supposed to last about 12K hours + or - burning.
Yes, I do wonder if the 1/2 thick cat in the 'new' Flexburn will last as long. HHT/VC WILL warranty the cat for 3 years.

I believe it is a prorated warranty

 

[bholler]

Cats are supposed to last about 12K hours + or - burning.
Yes, I do wonder if the 1/2 thick cat in the 'new' Flexburn will last as long. HHT/VC WILL warranty the cat for 3 years.

And they wont if they determine it was damaged by abuse or misuse.

And that 12k hours is only 500 days. It would not be hard at all to rwach that before 3 years.

 

[Cast Iron]

The Flexburn/HHT/VC cat is warrantied ( no prorating ) for 36 months free replacement. Then prorated for the remainder of 6 years.
Not too bad compared with Condor or other cat makers for example.
The wear timespan for the cats is about 12,000 hours, the usual 2 years for northern heating.

 

[Cast Iron]

Dealers say that HHT/VC has been fast and easy on any warranty claims for their customers....I checked. This including cats.

 

[bholler]

The Flexburn/HHT/VC cat is warrantied ( no prorating ) for 36 months free replacement. Then prorated for the remainder of 6 years.
Not too bad compared with Condor or other cat makers for example.
The wear timespan for the cats is about 12,000 hours, the usual 2 years for northern heating.

That is similar warranty to most other cat stoves on the market. Which is good. But it doest cover anything caused by what they deem to be abuse or misuse. It slso only covers the first cat in most cases. But i dont know that for sure with vc i would check that if i were you.

And to be clear vc doesnt make their cats they are probably from condor.

 

[bholler]

Dealers say that HHT/VC has been fast and easy on any warranty claims for their customers....I checked. This including cats.

That is not at all what we experinced with either of the vc dealers we deal with. Or the quad dealers or the harman dealers all hht products. I dont know mayby vermont dealers get better service. Or your dealer is stretching the truth to make the sale.

 

[Cast Iron]

Summing up the HHT/VC Flexburn 2in1 latest stoves from your time using or actually fixing one of them FROM THE PAST 3 Years that they have been in the market.
Worth getting one with the specs mandated by the boss as above ?
Skip the mistakes of the former owners and makers of past VC before HHT took over. We know all that.
Yes, I know that BK stoves are great and will even produce miracles...but.....I need to obey.

 

[Kevin Weis]

Cast Iron, thoroughly inspect the access panel fitting of your new stove at the dealer. Make sure the stove they show you on display is a current model and not one five years old or so that is not the same (my dealer). If it doesn't fit right ask why and what is the problem. If you have this issue on your stove PLEASE advise what they say about it. I think you will be okay with the stove but you MUST follow the "rules of engagement" specifically as outlined in previous post and the owner's manual. No variation or you will have problems. Except for the access panel and figuring out the puff backs I was getting the stove otherwise runs well. Again very specific parameters on how it must be operated make no mistake. Please keep us posted on your purchase and findings. Thanks, Kevin

 

[Cast Iron]

Good advice Kev....appreciated, will do.
Have not read about "rules of engagement" since OCS, long ago!

 

[Kevin Weis]

Good advice Kev....appreciated, will do.
Have not read about "rules of engagement" since OCS, long ago!

Ha, sorry my father was Military. One other thing, don't expect the glass to stay anywhere near clean no matter how hot you get the fire. At least this has been my experience thus far. Dealers I visited though told me this before purchase. Some of the creosote will burn off some but nowhere near all of it. Not that big a deal to me but wifey likes to see flames. Another plus though the cat in these seem to light off easily and perform well. I've been able to run the griddle at 350 with the cat well into the operating range on the probe (not graduated in degrees). I think they call this running off the cat. I found that impressive. Also found by trying to get the stove to run this way increases puff back conditions. Kevin

 

[SculptureOfSound]

Well, looks like I get to be part of this thread now as an OWNER rather than just a pest asking questions. Oh wait, I'm sure I'll still have lots of questions, ha!

I just snapped up a used Montpelier that is in really good condition for a steal of a price. Full story is here if you want to read it (so psyched atm that I just have to share!) https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/i-finally-own-an-insert.168454/

 

[Diabel]

Welcome to the VC thread and the forum.

It has been very quite here......stoves must be running just right and/or people are is a shut down mode for the season.

April has been very cold here, I am still doing a fire every morning and a second load in the afternoon. Small loads of hemlock, it keeps the house warm until the next morning pretty much (some help from NG here and there in the morning).