2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread PART 2 (Everything BK)

[Poindexter]

@AlbergSteve "What I did find was one of the bolts that attaches the door "limiter" was too long and was hard against the front inner plate of of the stove, pushing the cast front on the hinge side out a bit. I've cut the end of the bolt off past the nut. I inspected the gasket carefully and it appears that smoke may have been seeping past the gasket on the hinge side - where the knife edge of the firebox presses on the gasket is shiny silver/grey, on the hinge side there is a hint of brown for the length of the gasket on the hinge side."

Nice work dude. I have hunch you will fit in here just fine. Welcome.

 

[Highbeam]

Well, here's my first post. My wife and I are the proud new owners of an Ashford 30.1, and for the most part, love it. We agonized for months (we don't do anything without months of research!) over it and the Alderley T6. She really wanted the cast iron, I wanted a big stove for long burn times. Through numerous twists of fate, ie.,production issues at PE, and at BK, we found an Ashford in stock at a shop in northern BC and had a friend deliver it to the Island(he was coming for a visit anyway).
Although skeptical about catalytic stoves, we were convinced (through much reading of this forum/thread) that the ability to turn the Ashford to a simmer was a big plus, and the price of a cat every three for four years pales in comparison to $600 power bill we got the other day... and all my wood is free!
The room the stove is installed in is only about 350 square feet, but the rest of the house is sprawled over 2400 square feet. We've been burning for seven days now and the "stove room" doesn't get much above 23C, yet the rest of the house stays at a constant 20/21C - even the back bedrooms and bathroom stay at 20C and that's with overnight temperatures of -5C to +6C during the day. So far I've only been burning dry d-fir branches of 1.5 to 3 inches in diameter and have no trouble getting 14 hour burn times - can't wait to get into the big stuff!

Now for the "not so great". We have "smoke smell". It appears, like a few other owners on here, that it's coming from the top left/hinge side of the door. It seems to happen after I turn the stat down, usually to medium, the flames disappear and char is finished. This annoys me greatly. I love the smell of smoke on my salmon, charcuterie, and my bacon, but NOT in my house. I've burned wood for many years and have never had the smell of smoke in the house, even when reloading.

So, this is what I've done so far. I've read all 1308 posts of part 1 and 594 of part 2 of this thread to help me trouble shoot this problem, so I've done all the tests everyone suggests, check draft, add chimney height to 17 feet, paper pull test, I've even turned on all the exhaust fans(about 590 cfm total) in the house and can't get it to back draft.

I shut the stove down yesterday and removed the cast cladding and looked for bad welds like one owner had here. What I did find was one of the bolts that attaches the door "limiter" was too long and was hard against the front inner plate of of the stove, pushing the cast front on the hinge side out a bit. I've cut the end of the bolt off past the nut. I inspected the gasket carefully and it appears that smoke may have been seeping past the gasket on the hinge side - where the knife edge of the firebox presses on the gasket is shiny silver/grey, on the hinge side there is a hint of brown for the length of the gasket on the hinge side. I've also adjusted the door a bit tighter on the latch side, but unfortunately there is no adjustment on the hinge side(unless I grind the mounting bosses off a bit!). Put everything back together. I've run two loads since yesterday and I STILL have the damn smoke smell.

The best solution I've seen so far is replacing the gasket so it doesn't look like the dogs breakfast that it does now, and maybe "upgrade" the gasket like @kf6hap did with the Rutland gasket. But really, should I have to do this on a new stove?

I've got pictures if anyone's interested.

Steve

Yes for pictures! And please describe your chimney. Single wall? Any bends?

 

[AlbergSteve]

Seventeen feet straight up. Five feet double wall, 12 feet of Ultimate One stainless six inch above that. Wood is doug fir, 13-20%. I'm getting 16 hour burn times with small dimension wood and medium to medium low stat settings. I've spent hours trying to sort this out, from burning my nose in the middle of the night (last night!) trying to pinpoint the exact location, to using a narrow beam led flashlight at night to locate the tiniest wisps of smoke that might emanate from pipe joints or connections.

 

[oldbluedeer]

I have noticed this too. My guess as to why this is so is with less fuel more air is fed into the firebox. The blanket of fresh air covers the window area keeping stinky smoke from getting near the gasket so no smoke smell is produced. Smoke smell tends to happen when the thermostat is turned down.

It just might be that under certain burning conditions and due to the flow restriction the cat imposes, the firebox just might be operating in a slight positive causing the "smell". This is the one explanation that makes any sense at all to me -at all- about "smoke smell". Just a hypothesis. When I get around to it I will test this explanation.

That might be. I had wondered how much restriction in flow the cat might cause. At any rate, I should be able to load it full and run the stove at a reasonable damper level without getting smoke smell. Still awaiting that 2' section of chimney, and the Amerivent adapter.

 

[AlbergSteve]

@AlbergSteve "What I did find was one of the bolts that attaches the door "limiter" was too long and was hard against the front inner plate of of the stove, pushing the cast front on the hinge side out a bit. I've cut the end of the bolt off past the nut. I inspected the gasket carefully and it appears that smoke may have been seeping past the gasket on the hinge side - where the knife edge of the firebox presses on the gasket is shiny silver/grey, on the hinge side there is a hint of brown for the length of the gasket on the hinge side."

Nice work dude. I have hunch you will fit in here just fine. Welcome.

Thanks Poindexter. Got my first car at 16, 73 Camaro, transmission died the next day and I've been "fixing" things for the last 38 years since...

 

[drz1050]

@AlbergSteve, I'd pull the gasket, scrape out what's left of the globs of RTV they used at the factory and reinstall with a solid bead underneath all the way around. They have the gasket sitting right on top of the bolts that hold the door glass in place, so if there isn't a lot of RTV underneath there, it's tough to get a good seal. I'd also check the stove collar for a good connection with the double wall, make sure it isn't getting caught up on any weld blobs.

 

[kf6hap]

A 4" Nyalox plastic wire wheel on a drill yanks the old RTC out easily.

 

[AlbergSteve]

@AlbergSteve, I'd pull the gasket, scrape out what's left of the globs of RTV they used at the factory and reinstall with a solid bead underneath all the way around. They have the gasket sitting right on top of the bolts that hold the door glass in place, so if there isn't a lot of RTV underneath there, it's tough to get a good seal. I'd also check the stove collar for a good connection with the double wall, make sure it isn't getting caught up on any weld blobs.

Yeah, I figured I was going to have to replace the gasket, just frustrated that I have to do this on a new stove. No collar, d-wall is hard down on the top of the stove, but I've eliminated any odours from that area.

 

[drz1050]

Yeah, I figured I was going to have to replace the gasket, just frustrated that I have to do this on a new stove. No collar, d-wall is hard down on the top of the stove, but I've eliminated any odours from that area.

Trust, I feel your pain... had to do the same thing on mine. Have you tried using your ash drawer yet?

 

[jetsam]

How did you get the thermal cracking so I can avoid it

By changing the temperature of the ceramic cat too rapidly.

For example, you could open the door without bypassing the cat, sending 70°F air through a 1200°F ceramic matrix. Alternately, you could bypass the hot cat, fill the firebox with frozen wood with snow on top, and put the cat back in before the firebox heats up to near the cat's temperature.

(To any alarmists reading this, I've done both at least a couple times and my cat's still in fairly good shape. Try not to do it at all, and don't worry too much about it of you screw up a time or two.)

 

[AlbergSteve]

Here's a couple of pictures. First, the final installation. Turned out quite nice. The great thing with the Ashford is the close clearances - it tucks nicely into the corner...here it is with its first fire, warming up my beer after a hard day - that thing is damn heavy!

 

[Pologuy9906]

I think the search is over. Pulling the trigger on the Sirocco 25 tomorrow. Love the FPX but I can't see myself dealing with warps or difficulty from the manufactuer resolving any issues even if its through a dealer.

BKs have great reps and I love the fact BKVP has a presence here. My only concern is output during the cold months.

 

[AlbergSteve]

The offending long bolts in the first picture. Second picture is the dent/chip it left on the front plate of the stove, and third picture is the offending bolts cut off.

 

[AlbergSteve]

Here's a picture of the gasket on the hinge side. You can see where the "face" of the knife edge, or the bottom of the groove in the gasket, is just slightly brown, whereas the rest of the gasket is shiny silver/grey. It's like this for the length of the gasket on the hinge side.

 

[Woody Stover]

Here's a picture of the gasket on the hinge side. You can see where the "face" of the knife edge, or the bottom of the groove in the gasket, is just slightly brown, whereas the rest of the gasket is shiny silver/grey. It's like this for the length of the gasket on the hinge side

Can you just fluff up the gasket it that area, and maybe it will seal a little better?

 

[AlbergSteve]

Can you just fluff up the gasket it that area, and maybe it will seal a little better?

Yeah, maybe. I'm not optimistic.

 

[SuperJ]

Here's a picture of the gasket on the hinge side. You can see where the "face" of the knife edge, or the bottom of the groove in the gasket, is just slightly brown, whereas the rest of the gasket is shiny silver/grey. It's like this for the length of the gasket on the hinge side.

View attachment 217812 View attachment 217813

I wonder if there is a gap in the seal at the gasket joint.

I realigned my door today, had to shift the front of the stove over 1/16 to 1/8". Wasn't much, but there was noticeably more tension on the door latch afterwards. The hinge side seemed to have creosote seeping under the pinch point, I think because the contact point wasn't centered over whatever rtv is under the gasket. The adjustment was pretty easy. Won't know right away if it solved my problem (slight creosote smell when running at higher fire rates).

Also, how's my chimney look after the better part of bush cord? It seems to have some fluffy white residue.

 

[AlbergSteve]

I wonder if there is a gap in the seal at the gasket joint.

I realigned my door today, had to shift the front of the stove over 1/16 to 1/8". Wasn't much, but there was noticeably more tension on the door latch afterwards. The hinge side seemed to have creosote seeping under the pinch point, I think because the contact point wasn't centered over whatever rtv is under the gasket. The adjustment was pretty easy. Won't know right away if it solved my problem (slight creosote smell when running at higher fire rates).

Also, how's my chimney look after the better part of bush cord? It seems to have some fluffy white residue.

Wow, your hinge side gasket looks way worse than mine for leakage. How many hours of burn time on this gasket @SuperJ ? If my stove ever gets cold enough ever again, I may try and adjust the door to the left.

 

[SuperJ]

Here's a picture of the gasket on the hinge side. You can see where the "face" of the knife edge, or the bottom of the groove in the gasket, is just slightly brown, whereas the rest of the gasket is shiny silver/grey. It's like this for the length of the gasket on the hinge side.

View attachment 217812 View attachment 217813

Wow, your hinge side gasket looks way worse than mine for leakage. How many hours of burn time on this gasket @SuperJ ? If my stove ever gets cold enough ever again, I may try and adjust the door to the left.

Had the stove installed Oct 17, burned off and on for the first couple weeks and pretty consistent for the last month. It was noticeable pretty early on though. Starts to smell when things get hot (which is reverse to what everyone else reports). I don't think I have a draft issue 16" straight up, 5 ft double wall and the rest ICC Excel Class A. I can run sustained low burns with no smell and a active cat, but on high things start to smell. I think the creosote that's wicking thru the gasket gets hot and starts to off gas a bit.

While I was in the there, I lubed up the my bypass with some copper anti-seize (it's like butter now, and way less clanky), and pushed my cat back in (it was sneaking forward a bit).

 

[kf6hap]

I think the creosote that's wicking thru the gasket gets hot and starts to off gas a bit.

This is one theory I have. Wicking or capillary action, same thing.

The other is the combustion air is blowing the smoke through the pores of the gasket. All that creo in the corners of the glass build up because they are blown there and condense out because of the relatively cool glass and cool combustion air.

The smoke smell might be a combination of the two above hypotheses.

For anybody interested, the fire box never goes into the positive. It never changes pressure substantially as the pressure drop across the cat is nil.
I just proved this by actual measurement. Of course, the cat must not be plugged for this to continue to be true.

Taking a pressure (vacuum) reading at the cat thermometer hole is essentially the same as the firebox.

 

[SuperJ]

Had a hot fire going all last night (-18C/0F here right now), the smell is slightly detectable, but I think it's subsiding. Fingers crossed the door alignment did the trick.

I've noticed the stove burns hotter for the same stat setting as it get colder. I guess the cold air really cranks up the draft.
I took some IR readings around the collar, I was up to around 550F at the collar/behind the collar. I can't recall exactly but I think I was cruising around 340F during warmer weather.

 

[estepracing]

Had a hot fire going all last night (-18C/0F here right now), the smell is slightly detectable, but I think it's subsiding. Fingers crossed the door alignment did the trick.

I've noticed the stove burns hotter for the same stat setting as it get colder. I guess the cold air really cranks up the draft.
I took some IR readings around the collar, I was up to around 550F at the collar/behind the collar. I can't recall exactly but I think I was cruising around 340F during warmer weather.

How often do you have to reload at that temperature

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[lsucet]

Any member with Princess and King stoves has this smell issues? Is only the 30s and 20s series with similar fireboxes having this smell issue?

 

[SuperJ]

How often do you have to reload at that temperature

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I burned thru probably 2/3 a load overnight (probably 1.5 to 1.8cuft). Did a partial reload (1cuft) this morning that will carry me thru to this evening.
Note that my temps are higher because I don't have fans on my stove. Someone with fans could go thru more wood at the some temperatures since they are moving heat away faster. My average collar temperature today is probably somewhere in the 400's, I had it hotter for an hour or two in the morning to take the chill off the house. I'm probably running around a 10-12hr burn rate (would have good coals for a couple hours longer, similar to the higher burn rate in the BK brochure).

 

[Dieselhead]

It’s there on mine when a load has been in for less then a few hours and the stat is turned down enough for no flame, only smoke for the cat to eat. Does not stink up my house, but the stove is covering 3k sqft in an open floor plan. Chances are it gets diluted before being able to detect it walking through the door.