2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread PART 2 (Everything BK)

[Ashful]

My short answer is run the highest BTU wood you can get easily and cheaply, that doesn't leave you with a big pile of coals to burn down and a cold house.

I have found the throwing one split on the coal bed after work, and running the stove on high an hour, does a good job at burning down those coals while keeping up BTU output. Even when that split is oak or hickory.

 

[lsucet]

Well, why to get a Ford focus when there's BMW 328i turbo?
Why to get a Denali SUV when there's a BMW 35i that give you better fuel economy? Why to buy an Englander stove, when there's BK with 30 hrs burn? And I can keep going. It is what it is. Later I will post pictures of the stove burning pine and I am getting 20s hrs and also the inside temp. It dropped to 30 overnight. Of course always there's something better and I see your point but for some don't make a difference. If it was available like pine around here or prices weren't that high I will completely agree that is better get the oak or any other hardwood.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

It’s 24 MBTU per cord for oak vs 13 MBTU per cord for eastern white pine. The Lodgepole you get out west 15 MBTU. Oak takes no longer to process than pine, so it makes zero sense to even touch the pine, unless it’s really your only option, or you’re looking for an excuse to spend more time outdoors processing wood. It would take a metric buttload if pine each year, to generate even an average 100-150 MBTU, let alone what I’m using.

When processing time is something you value, the best answer is always the wood with highest BTU per cord. That’s all I was saying. If you’re buying, and in a location where hardwoods are less plentiful, then I see your point.

I burn what I have to keep the yard cleaned up. Lots and lots of oak, poplar, birch, and a little pine, sassafras, maple, mulberry, beech. Warm house, clean yard, free fuel. Free, available, and cluttering the yard trumps a few more BTU's per load every single time.

 

[oldbluedeer]

Is this the right forum to discuss BK installation issues? I installed it this summer, and one concern that I had was the very loose connection between the BK stove and the Duratech doublewall black stove top adapter. As the adapter sits on the stove top, it is not a nice tight connection. There is a tapered inner piece on the adapter that goes inside the stub coming out of the stove. The outer portion of the adapter slides down over the stove stub, but there is a rather large 1/4" gap between the stove stub and that outer wall of the adapter. And the adapter just sits on top of the stub coming out of the stove, and it isn't tight or secure at all, just the weight of the pipe coming down that holds it in place there.

I had been having a slight smoke odor starting to build each time I shut BK bypass, or later after when I had reached full operating temperature and dialed the damper back for the long slow burn. So yesterday as a short term fix I stuffed some stove rope into the gap between the outer wall of the adapter and the stub piece on the stove.

It seems to have helped a lot, but before proceeding to stuff even more stove rope into the gap, I wanted to get feedback from this group...

 

[rdust]

Is this the right forum to discuss BK installation issues? I installed it this summer, and one concern that I had was the very loose connection between the BK stove and the Duratech doublewall black stove top adapter. As the adapter sits on the stove top, it is not a nice tight connection. There is a tapered inner piece on the adapter that goes inside the stub coming out of the stove. The outer portion of the adapter slides down over the stove stub, but there is a rather large 1/4" gap between the stove stub and that outer wall of the adapter. And the adapter just sits on top of the stub coming out of the stove, and it isn't tight or secure at all, just the weight of the pipe coming down that holds it in place there.

I had been having a slight smoke odor starting to build each time I shut BK bypass, or later after when I had reached full operating temperature and dialed the damper back for the long slow burn. So yesterday as a short term fix I stuffed some stove rope into the gap between the outer wall of the adapter and the stub piece on the stove.

It seems to have helped a lot, but before proceeding to stuff even more stove rope into the gap, I wanted to get feedback from this group...

Maybe this will help.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ead-everything-bk.155890/page-80#post-2143748

 

[Poindexter]

@oldbluedeer , i had a collar adapter like that on mine when it was newly installed.

In my AF 30 there was room to just take the adapter out and set the double wall telescoping pipe over the stove collar or stub pipe.

The clearance between the pipe screws and cast iron top is best expressed in thousandths, it is plenty less than one eigth of an inch all around... but it does fit without scratching anything up and my smoke smell went away.

I do have to lift the cast iron top plate off my stove to get to the screws to brush the pipe bottom up.

 

[oldbluedeer]

Maybe this will help.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ead-everything-bk.155890/page-80#post-2143748

Thanks for that. It helps to know that I am not imagining the whole thing!

I like that the Duratech double wall adapter covers both inside and outside of the stovetop stub. One issue is the three holes in the stove top stub, where with the single wall adapter you can attach screws there to hold the adapter in place. With the double wall adapter, I cannot put a screw through the holes, and as a result they are free to let gasses flow outside into the room. I think those holes may be the main place where gases are escaping out of the piping and into the room

I am on the fence as to either switching to that single wall adapter, or fixing what I already have. I am leaning toward trying to fill those holes with JB Weld Extreme Heat, and then stuffing even more stove rope in the gap... I'll reply to this post with the results, one way or the other.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IBOBY74/?tag=hearthamazon-20

 

[kf6hap]

So yesterday as a short term fix I stuffed some stove rope into the gap between the outer wall of the adapter and the stub piece on the stove.

That is what I did. I crammed it in real tight to form a seal. The cold air entering was spoiling some of the draw.

 

[oldbluedeer]

@oldbluedeer , i had a collar adapter like that on mine when it was newly installed.

In my AF 30 there was room to just take the adapter out and set the double wall telescoping pipe over the stove collar or stub pipe.

The clearance between the pipe screws and cast iron top is best expressed in thousandths, it is plenty less than one eigth of an inch all around... but it does fit without scratching anything up and my smoke smell went away.

I do have to lift the cast iron top plate off my stove to get to the screws to brush the pipe bottom up.

That is interesting. I will take a look and see if that will work with the Sirocco. One issue could be the optional bolt-on convection deck. The clearance on that is not quite enough to clear the screw heads on the double wall pipe, but it might be they would sit just above the top of the convection deck.

The current workaround will have to suffice this coming week, but the following week I will take a closer look...

 

[Alpine1]

Uhmm... on a pound for pound basis, conifer trees have SLIGHTLY higher btus ( for us imperially impaired Europeans KWs) than large leaved trees BUT since our stoves have a fixed cubic inches capacity, it makes sense to harvest only the heavier wood you can grab. Alas , where I live, Norway spruce is the only option.

 

[oldbluedeer]

Uhmm... on a pound for pound basis, conifer trees have SLIGHTLY higher btus ( for us imperially impaired Europeans KWs) than large leaved trees BUT since our stoves have a fixed cubic inches capacity, it makes sense to harvest only the heavier wood you can grab. Alas , where I live, Norway spruce is the only option.

That may be true, I haven't investigated that angle of weight-vs-volume and btus of different wood. Out in the Western US, there are many different varieties of conifer, many different species of pine and fir, and the btus varies from species to species.

 

[oldbluedeer]

Here's a snapshot of wood varieties and btus in this region, although I haven't verified the numbers...

 

[Nigel459]

Hello again all,

I've had a Sirocco 20.1 for a few weeks now. Overall it's been awesome--smouldering away on low it has been keeping us cozy warm with all other heating off and an outside average of freezing temps.

I emptied the ash out and must say the ash drawer worked great. the stove was slightly warm so there was a draft. I just used an envelope sized (non combustible) card thingy and swept it down and away, with any airborne ash/dust just going up the bypass due to the draft, not in the room. Took the drawer with cover on outside to the metal can waiting. Nice. Clean. I've seen so many comments about "don't bother with the ash drawer" that I wanted to mention that.

Anyway, my question. I understand the "keep it simple and just load it up" strategy, and have been doing that. This morning we woke up and the stove had slipped into the middle of the "inactive" range. It had been going for 16hrs or so on low on about a 2/3rds load of dry white ash at startup. I could see quite a bit of good black coal down there, like the bottom 1.5" was solid black coal. I opened the bypass and turned up to high air and gave it 10 mins or so. At that point the coals were glowing quite fiercely, but the cat probe wasn't budging. I raked the coals, put another log on and it fired right up, gave it another 10 mins and the temp had juuuust budged, still not "active" though, but I engaged the cat, thinking the gases sure must be hot. I was right, the cat went red right away with nice action in the firebox.

If I had just turned it up on high with the warm coals but cat in "inactive", would the cat have eventually lit off again? and does that mean my cat "stalled" and I shouldn't have had it set all the way down low from the start?

I have been having complete burns on low up till now I'd say. Same wood. It was a warmer night so maybe the draft was weaker.

 

[kennyp2339]

I have been having complete burns on low up till now I'd say. Same wood. It was a warmer night so maybe the draft was weaker.

2 take a way's with this that I learned with my stove, technically yes, you stalled out more likely towards the end of the burn cycle, I notice that I have a lot more coals / inactive cat when I don't have a good layer of ash in the stove, the ash layer adds insulation and that helps burn everything to a nice powder ash, the second thing is you are correct, when temps rise in combination with a low fire the draft tends to be more temperamental, its not a big deal though.

 

[BKVP]

Yes, the Ashford is a good looking stove destined to become a classic. I bet they sell a lot of them.

You have no idea!

 

[Bullyboy]

Ok guys. I wanted to thank everyone for there help with my smoke smell issue. It might be to early to say problem completely solved but it looks very hopeful. I had my flashing repaired and the storm collar resealed but most importantly added a measly 24" of chimney. Didn't touch the door gasket or the collar, just added height. So far today its pretty mild but the stove is dialed down lower then it has ever been. Cat seems happy around 10 oclock and most importantly not even a trace of smoke smell. Even cranked the fans for a bit to try and get it. Fingers crossed.

 

[lsucet]

Details over a 20 hrs burn using pine. See all the coals left at 20 hrs later. Seen the inside temps at this time i can get easy two more hrs out those coal before reload. Since last night that i dialed it in. I didn't touch anything till now to rake the coals from under the ashes.

 

[Ashful]

Hello again all,

I've had a Sirocco 20.1 for a few weeks now. Overall it's been awesome--smouldering away on low it has been keeping us cozy warm with all other heating off and an outside average of freezing temps.

I emptied the ash out and must say the ash drawer worked great. the stove was slightly warm so there was a draft. I just used an envelope sized (non combustible) card thingy and swept it down and away, with any airborne ash/dust just going up the bypass due to the draft, not in the room. Took the drawer with cover on outside to the metal can waiting. Nice. Clean. I've seen so many comments about "don't bother with the ash drawer" that I wanted to mention that.

Anyway, my question. I understand the "keep it simple and just load it up" strategy, and have been doing that. This morning we woke up and the stove had slipped into the middle of the "inactive" range. It had been going for 16hrs or so on low on about a 2/3rds load of dry white ash at startup. I could see quite a bit of good black coal down there, like the bottom 1.5" was solid black coal. I opened the bypass and turned up to high air and gave it 10 mins or so. At that point the coals were glowing quite fiercely, but the cat probe wasn't budging. I raked the coals, put another log on and it fired right up, gave it another 10 mins and the temp had juuuust budged, still not "active" though, but I engaged the cat, thinking the gases sure must be hot. I was right, the cat went red right away with nice action in the firebox.

If I had just turned it up on high with the warm coals but cat in "inactive", would the cat have eventually lit off again? and does that mean my cat "stalled" and I shouldn't have had it set all the way down low from the start?

I have been having complete burns on low up till now I'd say. Same wood. It was a warmer night so maybe the draft was weaker.

It's possible you stalled it, but... remember there's not much in the way of cat fuel left toward the end of the load. The cat us fueled by the volatiles coming off a load of wood, and charcoal is pretty well baked out of them, so it may not have been a true stall.

In a typical "stall", assuming you catch it before it's completely dead, turning the stove back up would get the cat back into active region.

 

[Nigel459]

2 take a way's with this that I learned with my stove, technically yes, you stalled out more likely towards the end of the burn cycle, I notice that I have a lot more coals / inactive cat when I don't have a good layer of ash in the stove, the ash layer adds insulation and that helps burn everything to a nice powder ash, the second thing is you are correct, when temps rise in combination with a low fire the draft tends to be more temperamental, its not a big deal though.

It's possible you stalled it, but... remember there's not much in the way of cat fuel left toward the end of the load. The cat us fueled by the volatiles coming off a load of wood, and charcoal is pretty well baked out of them, so it may not have been a true stall.

In a typical "stall", assuming you catch it before it's completely dead, turning the stove back up would get the cat back into active region.

Appreciate the help. I did leave the suggested 1/2” of ash in the box when I cleaned but was definitely far less than before. So probably a combination of all mentioned above,

Looks like winter is coming on Wednesday for us, bringing below freezing highs as far as the forecast can see... for the first time I’m looking forward to it!

Thanks again

 

[kf6hap]

In looking at this list of stove efficiencies the BK units are higher than the rest, but I estimate -mentally- the actual listed efficiency of non BK stoves are way too high. My old air tube stove flue temperatures were in the 600-900F range. Vast quantities of heat simply went up the flue. Except at start-up my BK runs a flue temp of 200-400F. In addition to flue temperature differences when air tube stoves are operated at medium fire and lower, secondary burn becomes weak or, worse yet, non existent resulting in a vast amount of potential fuel being wasted. Hot combustion gas residency time is vastly greater permitting much more heat to be transferred. Lengthy residency time is also reflected in the very low grams/hour ratings too. How many stoves are rated <1G/H?

Am I missing something here?

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-11/documents/pre2015nsps-certifiedwood.pdf

I have saved a substantial amount of wood over my older stoves.

 

[Ashful]

In looking at this list of stove efficiencies the BK units are higher than the rest, but I estimate -mentally- the actual listed efficiency of non BK stoves are way too high. My old air tube stove flue temperatures were in the 600-900F range. Vast quantities of heat simply went up the flue. Except at start-up my BK runs a flue temp of 200-400F.

As you have already noticed, most here report massive wood use reduction, when switching from other stoves to BK, and that’s the true measure of average installed efficiency. The published numbers come from very narrowly defined controlled test situations, and while some stove manufacturers have found ways to maximize those numbers, they may fall short on real-world results.

 

[oldbluedeer]

As you have already noticed, most here report massive wood use reduction, when switching from other stoves to BK, and that’s the true measure of average installed efficiency. The published numbers come from very narrowly defined controlled test situations, and while some stove manufacturers have found ways to maximize those numbers, they fall short on real-world results.

In looking at this list of stove efficiencies the BK units are higher than the rest, but I estimate -mentally- the actual listed efficiency of non BK stoves are way too high. My old air tube stove flue temperatures were in the 600-900F range. Vast quantities of heat simply went up the flue. Except at start-up my BK runs a flue temp of 200-400F. In addition to flue temperature differences when air tube stoves are operated at medium fire and lower, secondary burn becomes weak or, worse yet, non existent resulting in a vast amount of potential fuel being wasted. Hot combustion gas residency time is vastly greater permitting much more heat to be transferred. Lengthy residency time is also reflected in the very low grams/hour ratings too. How many stoves are rated <1G/H?

Am I missing something here?

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-11/documents/pre2015nsps-certifiedwood.pdf

I have saved a substantial amount of wood over my older stoves.

Compared to the old 1980s wood stove that I have in my shop, the BK is several times over more efficient, from what I have seen so far. I suppose the difference could be reduced, if one were willing to sit in front of the older stove and continually fiddle with the damper and vent settings, keeping it a little above stall, sweep the chimney often to keep it reasonably clean, etc. Although I have to admit, I am much more disciplined in choosing the wood I burn in the BK. In the old stove, most everything was fair game, including wood that was not-so-cured or not very well protected from rain. I really didn't understand how much energy was expended drying the wood before it could burn. And sometimes putting a big log with higher moisture content was one way to keep the heat going longer through the night.

 

[volunbeer]

You burn the wood you have - period. Many of us out west are in the evergreen region so that is what we burn. I have mostly burned wood that I have cut on my own property as part of a clearing project and it is mostly Douglas fir. It is nice wood - clean, dries fast, and seems to produce very little ash. I have also burned a fair amount of ponderosa pine although I some of it is "punky" even after it has dried for two years. I try to burn no more than one piece of the heavy or punky stuff in the stove at a time. Some of it is also very light when dried and probably does not provide too much heat, but in general - my stove does what it is supposed to do with the ponderosa and fir.

The best wood I have where I am at is black locust (hard to find) and tamarack. Tamarack sells for a premium here as does the locust, but I have not noticed that it burns much longer than my fir does. Locust is hard to find and I do not have it on my land. A lot of people burn lodgepole pine here and like it because it is easy to get with a permit and plentiful. I would try it if needed.

I picked up a couple of loads of apple wood (probably close to a cord) this year for free after someone cut some very old apple trees. It is pretty heavy and I am going to let it dry for another season (at least) and will probably burn it one or two pieces at a time with pine and fir. It is supposed to keep coals for a long time - we'll see.

I was in Maryland for work for almost a month earlier this year. All I can say about the wood there is "wow" and I wish I could have spent weekends with my chainsaw there.

 

[kennyp2339]

You burn the wood you have - period. Many of us out west are in the evergreen region so that is what we burn. I have mostly burned wood that I have cut on my own property as part of a clearing project and it is mostly Douglas fir. It is nice wood - clean, dries fast, and seems to produce very little ash. I have also burned a fair amount of ponderosa pine although I some of it is "punky" even after it has dried for two years. I try to burn no more than one piece of the heavy or punky stuff in the stove at a time. Some of it is also very light when dried and probably does not provide too much heat, but in general - my stove does what it is supposed to do with the ponderosa and fir.

The best wood I have where I am at is black locust (hard to find) and tamarack. Tamarack sells for a premium here as does the locust, but I have not noticed that it burns much longer than my fir does. Locust is hard to find and I do not have it on my land. A lot of people burn lodgepole pine here and like it because it is easy to get with a permit and plentiful. I would try it if needed.

I picked up a couple of loads of apple wood (probably close to a cord) this year for free after someone cut some very old apple trees. It is pretty heavy and I am going to let it dry for another season (at least) and will probably burn it one or two pieces at a time with pine and fir. It is supposed to keep coals for a long time - we'll see.

I was in Maryland for work for almost a month earlier this year. All I can say about the wood there is "wow" and I wish I could have spent weekends with my chainsaw there.

My princess has a few cords of white pine and hemlock under her belt, I actually like burning that stuff better, the finish is all ash, no little pellet coals like when I burn red oak.

 

[WES999]

Is this the right forum to discuss BK installation issues? I installed it this summer, and one concern that I had was the very loose connection between the BK stove and the Duratech doublewall black stove top adapter. As the adapter sits on the stove top, it is not a nice tight connection. There is a tapered inner piece on the adapter that goes inside the stub coming out of the stove. The outer portion of the adapter slides down over the stove stub, but there is a rather large 1/4" gap between the stove stub and that outer wall of the adapter. And the adapter just sits on top of the stub coming out of the stove, and it isn't tight or secure at all, just the weight of the pipe coming down that holds it in place there.

I had been having a slight smoke odor starting to build each time I shut BK bypass, or later after when I had reached full operating temperature and dialed the damper back for the long slow burn. So yesterday as a short term fix I stuffed some stove rope into the gap between the outer wall of the adapter and the stub piece on the stove.

It seems to have helped a lot, but before proceeding to stuff even more stove rope into the gap, I wanted to get feedback from this group...

I too, used the cut down Amerivent All Fuel Single Wall Adapter, attached it to the stove pipe first, then assembled the pipe to the stove
and used 3 screws through the stove collar to attach the adapter.
Worked great.