2016/2017 VC owners thread

[Excavator]

Another quick cure I found works for me if i get above 1700 is I open my window all the way which is 2 feet away from stove and the cold air seems to be sucked in stove and calm her down very fast and calm me as well

 

[Dobish]

Hey guys, maybe we should bring up the operation process reminder again. Ive made a few more tweaks from your suggestions, based off the original procedure I posted during my rebuild.



Vermont Castings Catalytic Stove Guide

Setup:

• Thermometers are your friend. Griddle thermometer is a must, a cat probe is almost a must and a stack temp gauge is nice to have.
• If you don't have an existing cat probe a great setup is the Auber AT100 using a k-type thermocouple. This setup shows the temp in 1 degree increments and responds faster than the Condar monitor. Also allows you to setup audible alarms.
• (add a link to the setup discussion on the AT100 from last year)

Startup Procedure:

• Start up a fire and let it burn wide open to warm up the stove
• On a new load you close the damper (bypass) when the griddle temp reads 450F (we used to say 500, but that causes overfire for some. you need to learn what works for you)
  • Alternate method - if you have a stack thermometer use this is a guide rather than the griddle. I find that reliable light offs happen when my stack surface temp is 400-500 regardless of griddle temp.
• If the cat lights off properly you should see probe temp pass 500 and start rising rapidly toward 1000+ in 5 min or less, if it climbs slowly and stops around 800 that is a catalyst stall and you need to reopen the damper and heat it up some more then try again. Once the cat temp is climbing rapidly start closing down the primary air in stages. the goal is to get the primary air fully closed before the cat temp reaches 1000F.

Cruising:

• Once you are cruising over 1000 and the temp rise has settled down, you can open up the primary again and adjust for the heat output you need.
  
• Any time you see the cat probe temp over 1600 you should be careful (1700+ is the danger zone) - either close the primary air completely to slow things down, or open up the primary air to get more fire in the box, which reduces the amount of smoke the cat has to burn, but burns the load up faster and throws a lot more heat.
  
• In cruising mode the probe temp will normally be in the 1100-1600 range (griddle might be 400-700 depending on how the primary air is set). During this part of the burn the air control will typically be almost closed but the stove is pumping out massive heat from the back casting due to the cat. Probe temp usually will slowly climb through the burn then peak and drop off fast. This part of the burn might be 1-2 hours for a couple splits or as much as 4-6 hours on a full packed load of Oak.

End phase of the burn:

• Once the probe temp peaks and starts falling s you know the major out gassing phase of the burn is done. You still have hours of usable heat in the coals and at this point you can safely open up the air control to maintain griddle temp without fear of overheating the catalyst.
• Once the cat temp falls below 800 with the air control open the load is pretty much burned out and its time to reload.

How much wood to load?

• If you want long slow burns you can pack it full. When you pack it full use fewer but larger splits.
  
• If you need high heat run a smaller load and keep the air control more open. You have to re-load more frequently but there is less chance of over firing the cat with smaller loads of wood
• Factors that contribute to over firing risk: large loads, using lots of small splits that off gas aggressively, strong draft due to very cold temps or an air leak. You need to learn with experience what combinations of split size, load size and air setting work for different weather.

What to do if you get into an over fire situation?

• 1700F cat probe temp is Condar's recommended limit. 1800 is the point that we have all seen glowing iron. I once hit 2000 for about a half hour. It didn't cause permanent damage or instant cat death but I don't recommend it.
• Ceramic cat's seem to work better for us than the diesel foil steelcats made by Condar.
  
• If the cat goes beyond 1700, first thing to do is open the bypass. Let it drop back to 1200 or so then re-engage
• Doing this once or twice usually bring it back in control. If it doesn't or if the firebox temps get out of control check to make sure you don't have something preventing the primary from closing completely (mine got jammed open once).
• If everything else is good and its still out of control you can try stuffing tin foil into the EPA air holes in the ashpan (behind the front legs)
  
• If even that does work, open up the front door to cool it off with fresh air, or dump a pail of ash on the fire to smother it.

Please suggest additions or modifications to this. Maybe we can sticky it for VC guys.

I wish i could have found this when i made the flowchart
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...urning-wood-in-your-stove-a-flowchart.157888/

 

[Herdvet]

When you say "tried using the converter" do you mean the catalyst?

If so, leaving it out I believe is forcing the stove to work like one of the old Everburn Neverburn non-cats and those where notoriously difficult to get to sustain good secondary combustion.

Put the cat back in, should cut down your creosote tremendously.

Also the usual question - how is your wood supply?

Wood supply is fine - I've harvested, cut, split and seasoned my own, here and elsewhere, for many years. And, yes, I'm referring to the catalyst. I'm familiar with all of the steps you list, and incorporated them when using it. The stove was getting too hot then, as well.

The creosote is more of an annoyance; the overheating is my problem. Any other suggestions?

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Wood supply is fine - I've harvested, cut, split and seasoned my own, here and elsewhere, for many years. And, yes, I'm referring to the catalyst. I'm familiar with all of the steps you list, and incorporated them when using it. The stove was getting too hot then, as well.

The creosote is more of an annoyance; the overheating is my problem. Any other suggestions?

Seal off your secondary air inlet.

 

[Diabel]

Seal off your secondary air inlet.

Try it. It will not hurt.

 

[husky345 vermont resolute]

Here in Michigan...have a 15 year old Defiant that was overfired last year and needs rebuilt. Considering either new Defiant or Drolet stove from Farm store ......Any suggestions?

Mich I suggest the drolet. All I can say is I'm totally satisfied with my drolet classic with blower

 

[jharkin]

Well I didn't follow my own advice to change only one thing. I set the timing to 3 o'clock, removed the stop from the secondary shutter and plugged the right side EPA hole.

Lit up this morning with an outside temp of 3F.
Stove came up to temp very quick, closed the damper when the stove top was 450 (flue surface 500) and the cat ver quickly came up to temp.... but then started to slow down as it approached 1000 and not rocket into the 4 figures.

Now its settled, I still have the air a full 1/4 open because its COOOOLD, surface temp is 550, cat is about 1300. I can see the secondary is completely closed and there is nothing but steam wisps outside.


We shall see later once the hose stabilizes and I can lower the air down how the cat reacts. So far, so good.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Reloaded at 6:30 this morning. Currently cruising at 1345 cat and 450 gt. Relaxing drinking a cup of coffee and watching the show.

 

[jharkin]

WOW.... Stove seems so much more controllable with these mods. Changing the timing and cutting off the tab on the seconday means that it is basically fully closed as soon as the cat chamber is past 500. You get some extra air on that first lightoff and then nothing.

But hte result speaks for itself. Cranking on high output with outside temps below 10 I never saw a cat temp past 1350.

Now I did a full reload, and have it shut down to cruise and its sitting around 1050. edit - just dropped to 975.


Ive never seen it cruise so low.

I might need to undo the EPA hole block, give it some more air.



So far, so good.

 

[Diabel]

WOW.... Stove seems so much more controllable with these mods. Changing the timing and cutting off the tab on the seconday means that it is basically fully closed as soon as the cat chamber is past 500. You get some extra air on that first lightoff and then nothing.

But hte result speaks for itself. Cranking on high output with outside temps below 10 I never saw a cat temp past 1350.

Now I did a full reload, and have it shut down to cruise and its sitting around 1050. edit - just dropped to 950.


Ive never seen it cruise so low.

I might need to undo the EPA hole block, give it some more air.



So far, so good.

Yeah, when I ran my old 0028, at one point I blocked one of the EPA holes and did not like the performance. The start ups were harder and I would have few unburnt pieces of wood at the end of the cycle.

The Reckless mod seems to work very well. Since the mod my 2550 has been running 24/7 (3 loads per day) and the cat always stays below 1550*
Very controllable.

 

[Diabel]

I have not seen this once last winter!!

 

[jharkin]

Stupid me, blocked off the EPA hole from the inside (since the foil kept falling out). I will have to wait for the next reload to open the ashpan and reach in there with heavy gloves and pliers to undo it.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

View attachment 190511 I have not seen this once last winter!!

Looks like my cap I don't know if the smoke is the result of a cooler running cat or I need to regasket the whole stove.

 

[Diabel]

Stupid me, blocked off the EPA hole from the inside (since the foil kept falling out). I will have to wait for the next reload to open the ashpan and reach in there with heavy gloves and pliers to undo it.

That is funny. On the 0028 the holes were in the same spot but horizontal, I just stuck a bolt in there from the outside with a bit of gasket cement

 

[Diabel]

Looks like my cap I don't know if the smoke is the result of a cooler running cat or I need to regasket the whole stove.

I believe this is steam. I hope!!

It is cold out there!

 

[jharkin]

That is funny. On the 0028 the holes were in the same spot but horizontal, I just stuck a bolt in there from the outside with a bit of gasket cement

Haha...Ingenuity wins. I got a piece of stiff wire and bent a hook into it, and managed to shove the foil out of position from the outside.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Stupid me, blocked off the EPA hole from the inside (since the foil kept falling out). I will have to wait for the next reload to open the ashpan and reach in there with heavy gloves and pliers to undo it.

When I tried blocking the EPA holes last I just put a little refractory cement on my finger and pushed it up into the holes. It was easy enough to remove when I realized it was not a good mod for me.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

I believe this is steam. I hope!!

It is cold out there!

I feel it is mostly steam. However a couple times this year I have had smoke just pouring out of my cap. Not sure why or how but it has happened. Since this stove was bought used I plan on doing a partial rebuild after the burn season. I will thank jharkin now for the detailed rebuild he did! It will come in handy.

 

[Diabel]

One thing VC did well is rate this stove for its space heating capabilities. It is rated to heat 1500sf.
My main level of the house is 1500sf. The stove keeps this level perfectly cozy in this brutal cold.
My basement (fully finished) is 1500sf I do not expect the encore to contribute anything there. A fireplace (NG) does the job.
The second level 1500sf., that is another story. With mild weather 30s enough heat will migrate upstairs to keep it comfortable. But last night I found myself digging out two space heaters and placing them upstairs. So, running the encore, NG fireplace and two electric heaters....hmmm

My 13 year old son comes up to me and says.."is the central heating system busted or something?"

I paused....(I must be going crazy). Walked over to the thermostat (which is only set to run 1hr in the morning), flipped the switch. One hr later the whole house was toasty, stove room was boiling!!

 

[Diabel]

I feel it is mostly steam. However a couple times this year I have had smoke just pouring out of my cap. Not sure why or how but it has happened. Since this stove was bought used I plan on doing a partial rebuild after the burn season. I will thank jharkin now for the detailed rebuild he did! It will come in handy.

Very easy rebuild, especially a partial.
I did a full tear down on my 2550, right down to the base. It was fun.

 

[Dobish]

so this may be a silly question, but i was thinking about it this morning when i checked out the stove. I reloaded it, and it was all nice and toasty, temps around 650 griddle, 450 flue. I closed the bypass and cat temp started rising in about 3 minutes. got up to around 900, but there was just coals, no flames. No smoke coming out of the chimney, stove temps still around 500. It got me thinking, I can't see the flames above the cat, so should I just assume that if it is up to temp and is not pouring smoke out of the chimney that it is burning?

Temp shouldn't keep rising if it hasn't "lighted off" yet right?

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Hey guys, maybe we should bring up the operation process reminder again. Ive made a few more tweaks from your suggestions, based off the original procedure I posted during my rebuild.



Vermont Castings Catalytic Stove Guide

Setup:

• Thermometers are your friend. Griddle thermometer is a must, a cat probe is almost a must and a stack temp gauge is nice to have.
• If you don't have an existing cat probe a great setup is the Auber AT100 using a k-type thermocouple. This setup shows the temp in 1 degree increments and responds faster than the Condar monitor. Also allows you to setup audible alarms.
• (add a link to the setup discussion on the AT100 from last year)

Startup Procedure:

• Start up a fire and let it burn wide open to warm up the stove
• On a new load you close the damper (bypass) when the griddle temp reads 450F (we used to say 500, but that causes overfire for some. you need to learn what works for you)
  • Alternate method - if you have a stack thermometer use this is a guide rather than the griddle. I find that reliable light offs happen when my stack surface temp is 400-500 regardless of griddle temp.
• If the cat lights off properly you should see probe temp pass 500 and start rising rapidly toward 1000+ in 5 min or less, if it climbs slowly and stops around 800 that is a catalyst stall and you need to reopen the damper and heat it up some more then try again. Once the cat temp is climbing rapidly start closing down the primary air in stages. the goal is to get the primary air fully closed before the cat temp reaches 1000F.

Cruising:

• Once you are cruising over 1000 and the temp rise has settled down, you can open up the primary again and adjust for the heat output you need.
  
• Any time you see the cat probe temp over 1600 you should be careful (1700+ is the danger zone) - either close the primary air completely to slow things down, or open up the primary air to get more fire in the box, which reduces the amount of smoke the cat has to burn, but burns the load up faster and throws a lot more heat.
  
• In cruising mode the probe temp will normally be in the 1100-1600 range (griddle might be 400-700 depending on how the primary air is set). During this part of the burn the air control will typically be almost closed but the stove is pumping out massive heat from the back casting due to the cat. Probe temp usually will slowly climb through the burn then peak and drop off fast. This part of the burn might be 1-2 hours for a couple splits or as much as 4-6 hours on a full packed load of Oak.

End phase of the burn:

• Once the probe temp peaks and starts falling s you know the major out gassing phase of the burn is done. You still have hours of usable heat in the coals and at this point you can safely open up the air control to maintain griddle temp without fear of overheating the catalyst.
• Once the cat temp falls below 800 with the air control open the load is pretty much burned out and its time to reload.

How much wood to load?

• If you want long slow burns you can pack it full. When you pack it full use fewer but larger splits.
  
• If you need high heat run a smaller load and keep the air control more open. You have to re-load more frequently but there is less chance of over firing the cat with smaller loads of wood
• Factors that contribute to over firing risk: large loads, using lots of small splits that off gas aggressively, strong draft due to very cold temps or an air leak. You need to learn with experience what combinations of split size, load size and air setting work for different weather.

What to do if you get into an over fire situation?

• 1700F cat probe temp is Condar's recommended limit. 1800 is the point that we have all seen glowing iron. I once hit 2000 for about a half hour. It didn't cause permanent damage or instant cat death but I don't recommend it.
• Ceramic cat's seem to work better for us than the diesel foil steelcats made by Condar.
  
• If the cat goes beyond 1700, first thing to do is open the bypass. Let it drop back to 1200 or so then re-engage
• Doing this once or twice usually bring it back in control. If it doesn't or if the firebox temps get out of control check to make sure you don't have something preventing the primary from closing completely (mine got jammed open once).
• If everything else is good and its still out of control you can try stuffing tin foil into the EPA air holes in the ashpan (behind the front legs)
  
• If even that does work, open up the front door to cool it off with fresh air, or dump a pail of ash on the fire to smother it.

Please suggest additions or modifications to this. Maybe we can sticky it for VC guys.

it is good to note the AT100 is also much cheaper than the condar. so Avoid the condar, it is a joke. Also for the people using the rear heat shield, the 6" k type probe from Auber Instruments will not fit. You will have to drill a hole in your heat shield or purchase just the 4" probe from condar.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Very easy rebuild, especially a partial.
I did a full tear down on my 2550, right down to the base. It was fun.

I am hoping to not have to break down the castings and re-cement them. I will re-gasket the whole stove. Maybe even get the whole fireback kit and refreactory box.

 

[Diabel]

I am hoping to not have to break down the castings and re-cement them. I will re-gasket the whole stove. Maybe even get the whole fireback kit and refreactory box.

The inner castings are very easy to regasket. Bypass essambly not so much!!

 

[RandyBoBandy]

The inner castings are very easy to regasket. Bypass essambly not so much!!

so I have read, Im kind of dreading pulling out the upper fireback but it will be good to go into next winter knowing everything is in tip top.