2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

[mellow]

HHV is not one of the strong points on a cat stove, as mentioned a tube stove even with its wild heating curves is better at it throwing the heat out if that is what you are looking for. But the king is up there in HHV efficiency, just not as much as LHV, still you should see a drop in wood usage.

 

[Marshy]

Is the peak BTU/hr for the King known? I know its not advertised on their site.

 

[Smoky Stoker]

Hi guys, new to the forum and fairly new the BK. I installed a King in my house this fall and have been burning it nonstop as my main heat source. Its given me a little learning curve compared to me old stove but I'm learning. One thing I have learned is these stove require the fan kit. I bought the stove without the fan kit and am now in to process of getting one on it. I thought the stove would be able to radiate the heat like my old Shenandoah but boy was I wrong. Any ways, looks like I have some reading to do in this thread. One thing I wanted to ask is, does anyone have any Infrared images of their stove in operation? I would like to compare mine if anyone has any... I'll get one or two posted for you folks to drool over. I'll also have some more questions for you guys as Im trying to heat ~3600 sq ft with it and its been a little challenging (hence I have more learning probably). I think the fan kit will help that out once I get it.

Sweet thermal Images! The King is rated to heat 1,500-3,000 sqft with a constant output of 51,582 btu/hr for 12 hrs. There's a lot of factors to the btu generation of the stove, such as how dry your wood is, or what variety you are burning. I burn oak and maple and I can generally tell the difference in heat output even though the btu content is fairly high for both. That said, a fan kit would help pull heat off your stove.

There are a lot of factors in the layout and efficiency of your home. It is difficult to evenly distribute heat from a single point source (ie. one stove) through a 3600 sqft house. However, certain home layout are better setup than others. Also, a home that is well insulated will require less BTUs to heat. A home with 2x6 exterior walls, double windows and >24" of insulation in the attic, is going to require a lot less heat than a drafty home with 2x4 exterior walls, single-glass windows and a foot or less of insulation in the attic. I'm sure you've already explored this area some, but your thermal imager is an excellent tool to find where heat may be leaving a home and help reduce your btu demand.

 

[lsucet]

I run two tubes stoves before and when is true that I was getting a lot of heat out of them in my application was too much heat for my stove room where we spend lots of time. Regardless if I dial it down or not. Including trying to move the heat with ceilings fan, stove fan etc, still too hot.
By the time it was comfortable the other rooms were cold and the stove was ready for reload anyway. With the Princess is different from day one but I can say is true that it doesn't feel the same amount of heat compared to the tubes Stoves but the difference in degrees between rooms is not that big as before using the fans of the ceiling fan.

Then I started working on finding the down sides in this house and finding lots of them. I still working on it and anything I do feels like a big improvement.
That is a nice thermal imaging camera. I have the FLIR ONE for Android and for my work here around the house but the temperature in this one doesn't go as high as yours to read real stove temperature but it's being good help making this house a little more tight. It is for sure that same stove in different floor plans, works different.
Regards

 

[Marshy]

I was in my attic last night looking lol. Theres not a lot of low hanging fruit up there. I have 2x4 truss construction 24"OC and where the 2x4 truss come together its hard to get that insulated. I might go by a bag of blow-in insulation to dump on top of each intersection of the trusses. The house was built in ~1996 with 2x6 walls. I don't know the R value of the attic insulation but more probably wouldn't hurt. The house has double pane windows but are 21-22 years old now. Some of the larges heat loss to the living space comes from having a large French door in the living room and another one in the dinning room. The one in the living room is about due to be replace but it will be very costly as it has a 10" window on the outsides of each door and a 12-16" window above the entire door/window setup. Anyways, I digress some. Low hanging fruit from an insulation point would be to get the garage door in the basement sealed up. It's probably the largest culprit. for loss.

 

[Marshy]

If this stove doesn't work out for me I will likely cut my losses and get a gasification boiler. I have a hydronic system in the house but its hooked to a oil boiler. Oil prices a couple of years ago got crazy stupid. Last year was mild and oil was cheap so I burn a good deal of it. I know I could make improvements to the house and maybe it will work fine with the BK but if I try some reasonable things and its not working then I'm half way to the cost of an OWB. The only reason I would consider one if because it get the wood out of the house and my daughter has allergies so that would be a big benefit. Plus I could heat my garage with it.

 

[Niko]

I averaged 6 cord per year with the old stove. Some years as much as 7. If I cant burn less than that with the King then it will be a shame and I will go back to my old stove.

If you where burning you old stove so hot then i doubt you even got 6 hrs of burn time on it and where constantly feeding it wood. I can fill my king full and turn it up and my downstairs will reach 98 degrees plus and i will still get 12 hr+ burn time. I have the fan kit and don't use it cause it produces way to much heat. My house is 3000 sqaure feet and my stove is downstairs. Not really air tight but i working on it lil by lil.

The king also radiates from the front as you can see on your thermal images. I have the ultra and it has the sheilds and fan kit, all my heat come from the front of the stove and some from the top deck.

Take some time and read this forum and you will learn a lot. If u wanna run the king on high all the time then thats your choice i am sure it will produce the heat you need.

As far as a fan kit and cant afford it, buy a cheap box fan and use it. Many people on this forum have used fans other then the stove fans.

Where in ny are you?

 

[Niko]

Here's my old stove. It has a 24" deep firebox.
View attachment 191554 View attachment 191555 View attachment 191556
You can see how much larger the surface area is that's 5-670F vs the surface area on the BK. I typically didn't have any fans on it either. That's what I've come to realize fans are necessary on the BK to get that heat transfer out of it. Just need the $300 to buy it lol.

Did you also notice that all of your heat is going up the chimney? Your highest reading are on your exhaust. Total opposite then the king.

 

[Marshy]

If you where burning you old stove so hot then i doubt you even got 6 hrs of burn time on it and where constantly feeding it wood. I can fill my king full and turn it up and my downstairs will reach 98 degrees plus and i will still get 12 hr+ burn time. I have the fan kit and don't use it cause it produces way to much heat. My house is 3000 sqaure feet and my stove is downstairs. Not really air tight but i working on it lil by lil.

The king also radiates from the front as you can see on your thermal images. I have the ultra and it has the sheilds and fan kit, all my heat come from the front of the stove and some from the top deck.

Take some time and read this forum and you will learn a lot. If u wanna run the king on high all the time then thats your choice i am sure it will produce the heat you need.

As far as a fan kit and cant afford it, buy a cheap box fan and use it. Many people on this forum have used fans other then the stove fans.

Where in ny are you?

Yes, I was putting wood in the old stove every 4 hours in the worst parts of the winter. With a coal bed in it I could still fit twice the wood the King can hold. I was burning a face cord per week two seasons ago.

I have a small 12" high velocity fan across the top of the King now. My wife didn't want me running the big 20" high velocity fan I have, its like a small barn fan lol. Just the small fan alone made a significant difference so I think the real fan kit will extract a lot more heat. I'm currently running it on high, practically non stop. Without the small fan it would keep my house warm enough. Last night was warmer and I was able to turn the air control down to about 75-80%. Right now I can load it and sleep 8 hrs without waking up to a cold house so its doing its part but its bound to get colder soon. Want to sell your fans? I'm north of Syracuse in the lake effect zone.

 

[Marshy]

Did you also notice that all of your heat is going up the chimney? Your highest reading are on your exhaust. Total opposite then the king.

Trust me, I noticed!

That stove had 6' of single wall 6" pipe and a 90* before it went into the thimble. Here are some more images of that stoves flue pipe. I thought about adding a magic heat. I could have gotten a lot of usable heat out of the flue gas without making creosote but I was always afraid that if I was wrong it might make creosote and burnt the house down lol.


Date is incorrect on those.

 

[Niko]

Yes, I was putting wood in the old stove every 4 hours in the worst parts of the winter. With a coal bed in it I could still fit twice the wood the King can hold. I was burning a face cord per week two seasons ago.

I have a small 12" high velocity fan across the top of the King now. My wife didn't want me running the big 20" high velocity fan I have, its like a small barn fan lol. Just the small fan alone made a significant difference so I think the real fan kit will extract a lot more heat. I'm currently running it on high, practically non stop. Without the small fan it would keep my house warm enough. Last night was warmer and I was able to turn the air control down to about 75-80%. Right now I can load it and sleep 8 hrs without waking up to a cold house so its doing its part but its bound to get colder soon. Want to sell your fans? I'm north of Syracuse in the lake effect zone.

No man the fan is mine
if you could fit more wood in your old stove then thats the reason its produced more heat! You have more fuel to burn.

insulate your basement, frame it out and insulate. You should use your thermo gun to see where the heat is leaking out amd where the cold is coming in instead of using it on your stove.

 

[Niko]

Trust me, I noticed!

That stove had 6' of single wall 6" pipe and a 90* before it went into the thimble. Here are some more images of that stoves flue pipe. I thought about adding a magic heat. I could have gotten a lot of usable heat out of the flue gas without making creosote but I was always afraid that if I was wrong it might make creosote and burnt the house down lol.
View attachment 191569
View attachment 191568
View attachment 191570

Date is incorrect on those.

Dude you really are lucky you didnt burn your house and hurt anyone. I think you need to make sure your current setup is good and safe. As their is now way you should of been running your old setup like that.

 

[kf6hap]

Some of the larges heat loss to the living space comes from having a large French door in the living room and another one in the dinning room. The one in the living room is about due to be replace but it will be very costly as it has a 10" window on the outsides of each door and a 12-16" window above the entire door/window setup.

Rather than replacing the french doors and windows in my main room, I placed honeycomb curtains. Either draw string or pull down units are available. Neat trick: On the bottom of the bottom rail, where you can't see it, place a cabinet door magnet. Screw the pole piece (the little square piece of steel the magnet sticks to) on the door. Purchase the magnet assembly in a color to match the door. Now the curtain won't flop about when the door is opened. Several "pole pieces" can be placed to allow different curtain heights. Flopping around is the major reason these curtains are not placed on doors. Most places will fabricate custom fit units. Translucent units let in light.

 

[claybe]

The house is a 1800sqft ranch but on a full basement (1800 sqft). I have heated the home with way with an old Shenandoah for 4 years and was able to maintain 70-75F throughout. There is no reasonable comparison between the two stoves because even if I knew its rating its fair to say it was probably ran hotter than it was ever intended. Regardless, I emailed BKVP and provided him with my IR images of the stove and the conclusion is its operating at expected temperatures. I will share them with the group once I get them all to him, they are fun to look at.

Regarding the baffles, I have detailed pics of the inside of the stove that might answer your questions... I'll post those. There are shields inside the firebox and on the outside of the stove. It was explained to me that they serve to keep the combustion temperature up to incinerate the combustibles and aid in the efficiency. Pics to follow.

If your basement is not finished you obviously don't spend a lot of time down there. My house is similar in set up and I tried my princess insert in the basement and it didn't work. Move the king upstairs and it will work just fine. I moved my princess upstairs and it works great! Put a fan at the top of the stairs pointing down if you need heat downstairs. Or put in a cheap pellet stove in the basement like I did. I only turn it on if the temps get in the single digits so that pipes don't freeze. My basement stays around 50 without heat. It is 70 upstairs. Good luck.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Marshy]

No man the fan is mine
if you could fit more wood in your old stove then thats the reason its produced more heat! You have more fuel to burn.

insulate your basement, frame it out and insulate. You should use your thermo gun to see where the heat is leaking out amd where the cold is coming in instead of using it on your stove.

That's why I got rid of it. The new setup is safe and up to snuff.

 

[drz1050]

For the garage door, would probably be worth it to even just hang plastic sheeting in front of it for now.. Tape it off to the walls and ceiling. This won't insulate any, but will stop any air leaks. It also happens to be much cheaper and easier than installing a new door.

 

[drz1050]

As far as the BTU output.. it's not really known what the peak is, but you can measure it yourself if you really want to. There's a BTU value for each species of wood. If say, you have an entire load of red oak, weigh it before loading up the stove, then keep the stove at WOT and let it burn down all the way.

Red oak has 6190 btus/ lb
50 lbs load of it? 309,500 btus in that stove.
Let's say the king takes 8 hours to chew through this- 38,687 btu/ hr. Multiplied by the efficiency of the stove, 82%, we get 31,723 btu/ hr.

None of those #s are right, but if you punch in your own numbers it should get you close.

 

[lsucet]

As far as the BTU output.. it's not really known what the peak is, but you can measure it yourself if you really want to. There's a BTU value for each species of wood. If say, you have an entire load of red oak, weigh it before loading up the stove, then keep the stove at WOT and let it burn down all the way.

Red oak has 6190 btus/ lb
50 lbs load of it? 309,500 btus in that stove.
Let's say the king takes 8 hours to chew through this- 38,687 btu/ hr. Multiplied by the efficiency of the stove, 82%, we get 31,723 btu/ hr.

None of those #s are right, but if you punch in your own numbers it should get you close.[/QUOTE

When you said, all the way down. Do you mean to ashes or some coal still?

 

[lsucet]

Sorry I don't know what happened there.
When you said all the way down, do you mean to ashes or some coal still?

 

[drz1050]

I'd say until the heat drops significantly, to where you'd normally reload it. At this point, you've used up all the BTUs that you normally would during operation, which are the numbers we're trying to find, not perfect world numbers from a lab.

This test would not be too accurate, but would give you real world, useable numbers. The accurate way to test this would be to put the entire stove on a scale, then monitor the rate of weight loss during the burn. I don't think any of us has a scale like that, or the charting tools at our houses.

 

[lsucet]

Oh OK, got it. Thanks

 

[Smoky Stoker]

The accurate way to test this would be to put the entire stove on a scale, then monitor the rate of weight loss during the burn. I don't think any of us has a scale like that, or the charting tools at our houses.

Hmmm, a data acquisition system connected to a digital scale that would track the stove's "weight loss" during burn and monitor system temperature data.... that sounds like my kind of test!

 

[Marshy]

You are basically describing the HHV and LHV testing method. That's how they do it and they also weigh the particulate that it capture from the flue gas. I found and read the exact procedure at one point.

 

[Marshy]

I tried to draw an illustration to represent a burn cycle in the stove. You guys might find it interesting. I drew time on the x axis and BTU on the Y axis. I also put output in % on the Y as well. I assumed a peak output and what the output might look like over time. I thought to myself it would be nice to know what the exact profile looks like on any particular stove so that you could calculate the area under the curve and determine how many BTUs you are using by the time you reload. The idea is the stove on high probably only puts out its peak output for a few hours before it tapers off. If you are reloading at the 8th hour and have the graph from the manufacture for the specific air control setting then you would know how many avered BTU/hr your heating demand is. I doubt something like that is available.

I would expect the curve to be flatter with less peak output with the control at say 75% and could be expanded to show 50, 25 and low settings.

 

[kf6hap]

I bring the wood in in canvas bags my wife made. I weighed them several time to get a handle on just how much wood was being expended every day. Shoulder season 20#, 20s-40F 45# and 18F-28F 55#. Weighing the wood is more accurate a fuel gage than how many bags/day. I don't sort wood anymore. Whatever I grab from the wood pile just gets loaded in and the magic bimetal proportional thermo-governor controller makes the stove hit the dialed in setpoint. Manual set dampers- no thanks. Boring is great.