2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK) Part 2

[tarzan]

View attachment 192883 View attachment 192884

Well, I've finally got my Ashford 30 installed in my new home after months of reading this forum dreaming about the day when I'm finally up and running! New construction, 2000 sq ft, approximately 17' flue.

Been easily running on 12 hour cycles. I've been gradually testing lower and lower t-stat settings. Any other way to know how low you can run these things other than trial and error? I have tested for the spot where the t-stat clicks when turning it down, but what does that really actually tell me.

Anyways, I'm very pleased with this stove. Thanks to everyone who taught me so much about it before ever even running one.

Your method of finding your "low" setting is fine although if your on true 12 hour burn cycles (little to no wood left at the 12 hour mark) I suspect you've got a ways to go before you find it.

 

[Highbeam]

View attachment 192883 View attachment 192884

Well, I've finally got my Ashford 30 installed in my new home after months of reading this forum dreaming about the day when I'm finally up and running! New construction, 2000 sq ft, approximately 17' flue.

Been easily running on 12 hour cycles. I've been gradually testing lower and lower t-stat settings. Any other way to know how low you can run these things other than trial and error? I have tested for the spot where the t-stat clicks when turning it down, but what does that really actually tell me.

Anyways, I'm very pleased with this stove. Thanks to everyone who taught me so much about it before ever even running one.

I see you're not monitoring flue temperatures but if you go by the manual, the lowest possible setting is that setting which burns all the wood without the cat falling below the active line. I find that running the stove that low produces such low flue temps that condensation in the flue becomes a problem so my lowest setticatng is quite a bit above that low cat stall setting. Still easily get active cat times over 24 hours though.

 

[volunbeer]

My wife has not had to do a full load yet, but running the stove on higher settings she has added a few splits to get a bit more burn out of it until I could come home and fill it. I moved some ugly stuff - pine splits, short chunks, and twisted knotted pieces into garage for "hot loads". It works well as I have been turning up the stove with the blower as needed. The wood definitely goes faster when it is not packed into the stove, but it is putting out the heat and that is why I got it!

 

[Tar12]

Highbeam...The Condar cat probe arrived today..the shaft is slightly smaller in diameter but the length is spot on at 2 inches. It appears to be working correctly.

 

[Highbeam]

Highbeam...The Condar cat probe arrived today..the shaft is slightly smaller in diameter but the length is spot on at 2 inches. It appears to be working correctly.

Mine is supposedly on its way. Weird that the shaft is smaller. I often tell the ladies, "it may be short but it sure is skinny".

 

[Swamp Fox]

This is related to later posts in Part I regarding life of cats. We installed our BK King in Feb. 2006. Didn't burn much that season, but have averaged burning two and one half cords of oak/hickory/maple every season since. In Oct. 2015 I did my first cat cleaning using the white vinegar bath. It has been a mild season here and we may have burned one cord so far. The cat is a ceramic Sud Cherie Protech and appears to be functioning well. A year after buying the stove I bought another combustor as a backup and it is still in the original box. I've thought about buying a back up BK but I think this one will outlive me. (Double wall connector pipe and 21 ft. insulated double wall chimney liner.)
BTW: I'm impressed with how popular BK stoves have become on this site since we purchased ours...back then, if I remember correctly, there was much skepticism regarding burn times.

 

[Marshy]

Mild weather is ahead of us. I framed in my garage door the night before last and inserted some 2" ridgid foam board (R10) between the studs. I plan on covering it all with a sheet of heavy plastic then T1-11 sheathing.
Overnight lows were 36-37F. I packed the stove at 7pm and let it burn on high for 20 mins then turned it down between 4-5 o'clock. I checked the house temp this morning at 7am and it was 71F. The stove had about the same amount of coals as compared to running the stove on high for 8 hrs and the cat probe was just hanging on the edge of being active still. The overnight load was a mix of beech, red/white oak and hard maple. I also split everything in half again so the thickest wedge of the splits wernt over 3-4".
Raked the coals then packed it again and asked the wife to turn it down to the same spot after 20 mins. This load had the same mix but included some red maple in it. I'm hoping she doesn't need to do anything with it until 4-5pm or later.

 

[moresnow]

I packed the stove at 7pm and let it burn on high for 20 mins then turned it down between 4-5 o'clock.

Good to hear you are beginning to take advantage of the lower settings.

 

[Marshy]

Good to hear you are beginning to take advantage of the lower settings.

As long as my heating demand allows it. Outside conditions are going to be a big contributor. It will happen eventually, I'm not going to burn more fuel that I need to for the sake of it. After all, I process my own firewood so part of the reason to get more efficient was to be able to spend less time processing wood.

 

[tarzan]

40's and 50's here for the last few days. Trending toward even higher temps for the next few days. Running on one arm load of wood a day is nice but I'm considering letting the furnace get a little exercise at this point.

Shoulder season weather in mid January!

 

[Highbeam]

Here too! We are up to mid 40s so I let the stove go cold and cleaned the insides. For the first time I had a pretty decent amount of stuff on the cat face. We were burning 100% doug fir at a much higher burn rate than normal. Little paint brush and vacuum over the face and it all looks new again.

I know I've heard others have the same experience but I had to push the cat back in about 1/8" to seat the tabs. It seems to walk out. Also, the steelcat is not tight in the can when cold it seems to have some wiggle room but not so much that I can see around the edge of the actual element. I'm not testing tightness when it's 1200 degrees!

 

[Highbeam]

Highbeam...The Condar cat probe arrived today..the shaft is slightly smaller in diameter but the length is spot on at 2 inches. It appears to be working correctly.

Okay so I also got my new condar meter last night. Mine is the model 3-12 which is supposed to have a 1.750" probe and 2" dial. Well, the actual cut sheet says 1.625" probe and I can see that it is about 0.250" shorter than the BK OEM probe. I talked to BKVP and he says that this is fine, still accurate. For me, the condar probe is thicker than the BK probe. The hole in the stove top is oversized for the probe but a near perfect fit for the first nut which means it is held snugly in the stove. Bueno. What's not bueno is that I still have to rotate the meter upside down due to the manufacturing defect on my BK that puts the probe hole too far aft.

This meter's needle is firmly set at room temp. I hope to never have to adjust it, the condar flue probe has been solid. I don't think the scale is the same. The low reading on the condar is lower than the BK meter and the active line is higher so perhaps the scale is more stretched out so I will use more of the dial. I don't know, it doesn't matter much.

The meter ran nicely up to 1200 and sat there until I went to bed. I could smell the paint burning off.

Boy that surface temperature meter I used to have on the stove sure scratched the paint.

I love having numbers. 1200 is hot. Like melting aluminum hot. My diesel truck has an exhaust gas temperature probe and when screaming up a mountain pass towing 8000# and burning diesel like a crazy man my max exhaust gas temperature is only 1200.

 

[black smoke signals]

Not far from the red zone

 

[kennyp2339]

For those that have had or have BK smells, read this, it might help out.

Ok, I guess I'm far enough down the road to finally share my story and my embarrassment about this subject. As you can probably see in my sig, I don't have a PH anymore. I wish I did. And let me start out by saying that Woodstock is an amazing company. I wish every company I dealt with operated like them.

I fought and fought and fought the smoke smell. Did all the modifications sent to me by WS. And finally was sent a replacement stove from WS. All at no cost to me. Nothing worked. So I finally asked that they take the stove back and they did.

So, I went out to my local stove shop and got an F600. Nice stove and it heats well. But it's just not the PH. But guess what..... I got the same kind of smoke smell from it.

Now, in trying to find a solution when I had the PH, I bought a manometer to measure air pressure differentials. Basically it will tell you the pressure different between the outside of you house as compared to the inside. To put it rather crudely, it will tell if you house "sucks" or "blows."

Quick lesson on house air pressure. A house usually has negative pressure (sucks) on the lower levels, then a neutral pressure plan in the middle, and then positive house pressure (blows) on the upper areas. So air is sucked into the lower levels of the house and escapes the upper levels of then house by positive pressure (blows). The more technical explanation is air moves from areas of high pressure to areas of low pressure. The warm air at the top of your house is higher pressure than the colder air outside, so air moves to it.

So, what I learned is I had negative pressure throughout about 75% of my house. Basically, my neutral pressure plane was on the second floor. So by house truly "sucked" a lot of air. The PH..... and the F600, didn't like this negative pressure and would leak air at times. Neither did it all time, but when conditions were right it did. I had great draft... measured once again with the manometer and confirmed by WS, but still smell.

So, what did I do? I added two foot of insulated pipe to the top of my insulated liner, making it about 24'. And topped that with a vacustack cap. I do have trees around and thought maybe they played into it. Still smelled.

So, I really started to examine air flow in the house. About my house....... I have cathedral ceilings and very open with a loft bedroom. And I "thought" I did a good job air sealing when I built in 2005. Spray foam on the walls, well sealed windows, etc. But I started caulking everything I could, to no avail.

Then one day I thought about the ductwork. Think about it. If you have ductwork in running from your basement to your attic, that duct acts like an internal chimney. And if the duct work isn't sealed in the attic, warm air is escaping due to the stack effect through those gaps in the ducts. So, I temporarily blocked air flow inside a couple of ducts and I also put that Press and Seal kitchen wrap over the air returns. TA DA!! No smell.

So, here's where I'll share one of my wildest attempts to stop this permanently. I bought a fog machine.... the kind you use on halloween. And I filled my house with it to find the leaks. Yep, filled it. And I saw fog escaping out of my upper attic space through the soffit vents. I was also able to visualize the fog moving through the ductwork.

Here's the fun part. The ductwork in that attic space is not easily accessible. I couldn't crawl to it. I'm 6'7", 255. No way my body would fit in there. So, on a nice spring day, on my second story roof, I pulled the shingles gently, cut the roof deck about the duct work, and sealed it that way. Then put it all back together. I also worked on sealing all other ductwork in the basement. And it made a big difference, but I still couldn't remove the "temporary" seals on the air returns.

So, I kept going. I am lucky that I built this house and have a ton of pictures taken during construction. So I can see where the duct work runs and where the joints are. So I could cut holes in the wall to access the ducts and seal the joints.

But, I finally had the big AH HA moment. I have a mechanical chase that has a couple duct runs. I cut an access and actually got in that chase to seal those ducts. Two story, probably 3x3, so doable but tight. Luckily I have a ladder that goes from about 2' and extends to 12.5', so I could get it in there and get to the top of the chase. And I found a huge air leak. That leak was pulling air out of the ducts in the chase and contributing to the negative pressure. After I foamed that air leak I was able to take the temporary Press and Seal kitchen wrap off the ductwork and burn smell free.

Ok, I won't say that I don't get a little smell once in a while. While I lowered my neutral pressure plane, it's not where I wish it was and where it's supposed to be, that is on the main floor right where the stove is. But I only get smell on start up when the door is cracked to get the stove going. And only on a very rare once in a while when conditions are right for it. There is still some more sealing of ductwork I can do and I'm slowly working on it.

So, moral of my story is that your setup may be great..... insulated liner, plenty of height, block off plate, good windows, OAK, dry wood, etc..... and still get smell. I did. And I'm not saying that this is what is going on with everyone with the smell. But I would strongly suggest that you look inside you building system before getting rid of the stove. An easy way to look for air pressure differentials is to crack a window and hold a burning piece if incense to the crack. If it is blown back into the house, you are in the negative pressure area. If it is sucked outside through the crack, you are in the positive pressure area. And if it doesn't do either you are in the neutral pressure plane. If your stove is in the basement this will be a harder fight because basements are almost always negative. But I'm sure there are a lot of stoves in basements that don't smell. I can only share my story.

I wish I had had my epiphany about the ducts while I still had the PH here, but it wasn't until also getting the smell from the F600 that I started to look deeper into the house. I like the F600 but truly wish i had the PH back. And maybe I will some day, but I bought some land and have to pay that off first. Heck, WS may not want to sell me another one!! And I apologize for not sharing my story sooner. A bit embarrassed by it I guess, and I didn't "fix" it until just a month ago. I've been working at this for two years I think. I'm glad that I can finally have the HVAC system in the house unobstructed again and set to 60 as a backup to the stove. Just wish I had known what I know now when I built 12 years ago. But that is the way with life.

Hope this helps someone. Josh

 

[moresnow]

That is a good read.

 

[Squisher]

I thought I'd ask here if someone can point me in the right direction if this has been covered. But I'm curious of any changes in the king king since the 1102 model came out? I believe the 1102 was the first model with a rectangular combustor and if I've researched correctly 1107 is the latest king model? I'm curious what the model changes have incorporated.

 

[Highbeam]

Not far from the red zone View attachment 193016

I tow over passes with one eye on that EGT gauge. 7.3 PSD. I back off of the fuel to keep temps at or under 1200 as that is the commonly recommended redline. Oil cooled, aluminum, pistons are the first thing to melt. My autometer gauges don't have the color zones. Odd to see a woodstove in my living room quietly holding 1200 on low.

 

[Squisher]

I run to that exact same temp with my 7.3. Same gauge too, autometer, no colors.

I have a 99 f550 that I fight winter off with. It has a plow and a sander so runs heavy.

 

[Highbeam]

I thought I'd ask here if someone can point me in the right direction if this has been covered. But I'm curious of any changes in the king king since the 1102 model came out? I believe the 1102 was the first model with a rectangular combustor and if I've researched correctly 1107 is the latest king model? I'm curious what the model changes have incorporated.

Recently the door latch changed from a round bent rod with the inside nut welded in to a flattish latch with both nuts loose to allow more adjustment. Different parts for latch and catch from the old style.

Recently, BK started requiring 15' of flue vs. 12' previously for the king.

The thermostat sticker is now a numberless, markless, referenceless, blob vs. the nicely labeled thermostat with actual numbers.

 

[Squisher]

So nothing too drastic it would seem? My big question would be whether the efficiency would be the same or similar?

I've found one secondhand for quite inexpensive but I believe it's sold and it was kind of further than I'd probably travel. It would've been a perfect candidate for the shop. I'm a classified junky so I watch steady and would really like to pick up a king secondhand. So figured I should bone up on the models and relevant changes. As one thing I know from classified shopping, to get the deal you have to be ready to pounce!

 

[Highbeam]

So nothing too drastic it would seem? My big question would be whether the efficiency would be the same or similar?

I've found one secondhand for quite inexpensive but I believe it's sold and it was kind of further than I'd probably travel. It would've been a perfect candidate for the shop. I'm a classified junky so I watch steady and would really like to pick up a king secondhand. So figured I should bone up on the models and relevant changes. As one thing I know from classified shopping, to get the deal you have to be ready to pounce!

There could be more changes that I'm unaware of. If it had a rectangle cat, door glass, a bypass lever, a thermostat, and the 8" flue then I would assume it's the good one. BK will know for sure.

 

[rdust]

Hard to not love these stoves. 12 hours ago or so the stove was loaded by my wife.(so not full or packed great ). It's in the 30's today so we set it on 1.5 with no fans. When I got home the stove room was 75, hallway with the tstat was 67(67 is a little chilly for the wife) Stove is full of fuel so I turned it up. How many non cats can have full flames after 12 hours?

Maybe not magic but nice to have the control that allows me to decide how I want the heat delivered.

 

[Ashful]

Loaded the stove in the new wing of our house at 6pm yesterday, and it's still 74F at 8:30pm tonight. That's 1800 sq.ft. of mixed construction from 1890's and 1990's.

The old wing is 72F, and the stove was loaded at 6am today. That's 4000 sq.ft. of un-insulated stone construction from 1730's and 1770's, with original windows and doors.

Temps were mild today, 32'ish overnight and mid-40F's during the day, but I'm still impressed.

 

[Niko]

Question how do you know when your cat needs replacement? My cat keeps on stalling. I have posted about this before and keep getting negative results even from doing what i habe been told. Im gonna let this load of wood burn out and inspect it tomorrow . I was getting awesome burn times, but seems that its speratic now.

This last load i let the stove get nice and hot(600 and the cat halfway on the meter)before i turned it down, just to come back like 2 hrs later and that cat completely stalled.

 

[kf6hap]

Use a flashlight to see if the cat is plugged/ blocked with fly ash. If the flue cap has a screen check it too. I use binoculars. I am assuming the wood MC is good. Dollar bill the bypass door. The Condar website has a washing procedure that will do the job and do no harm.