2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK) Part 2

[Ashful]

Well, at the risk of getting Woody Stover all riled up again, I have just experienced the Ashford 30 "plugged cat syndrom" others have reported here.

I ran the stove on high for a good long run on Saturday, although it was not loaded full, and it was performing beautifully. Cat probe was holding right around 12 o'clock, right in the middle of the active range. In fact, I thought it odd that it was not higher into the active range, and the fire was not raging, just nice and lively. It was the first time I had ever run that stove on a high setting for any period longer than 30 minutes.

On Sunday, I noticed that when I engaged the cat, the fire died down to look like I was running the stove on a medium setting. But the t'stat was set to high, as it always is for the first 20 - 30 minutes of cat engagement. I decided to let the stove go out on Monday, and pulled the flame shield to check the cat. It was caked with a brown mossy looking substance (is this what others call "fly ash"?). I put a dusting brush on the vacuum wand, and very gently vacuumed it off. It came off very easily (I will post pics in a subsequent post) without even so much as touching the brush to the combustor.

Last night I fired the stove back up, and the cat is still sluggish. Stove rips like normal in bypass, but upon closing the the bypass damper the fire is definitely a little less lively (not dramatically, but noticeable) than normal.

I am not sure if the burning on high on Saturday was entirely to blame for the plugged cat. In fact, I had been noticing my burn times getting inexplicably longer from this stove, during the course of the season. I think that a large fraction of the plugging probably occurred gradually, over the course of the 3 cords I've put thru this stove since October, and the high burn on Saturday just sealed the deal.

I am now wondering if the vacuum could have pulled latent ash sitting in the chamber behind the combustor into the combustor, such that it is now clogged on the back side. It is burning okay right now, but cat temp is a little below normal, and it is slower coming up to temp with lazier flames at wide-open throttle.

 

[webby3650]

I have a spark screen on my chimney. Mine does not clog up even with the screen on it. I get very very little build up in the chimney. Each setup is different, each environment will produce different results.

 

[Ashful]

Pic before vacuuming:



Tested vacuum on just a small area on right side:



All cleaned:



Subtracting the time I stopped to take these photos, the entire process took 30 seconds.

 

[webby3650]

Well, at the risk of getting Woody Stover all riled up again, I have just experienced the Ashford 30 "plugged cat syndrom" others have reported here.

I ran the stove on high for a good long run on Saturday, although it was not loaded full, and it was performing beautifully. Cat probe was holding right around 12 o'clock, right in the middle of the active range. In fact, I thought it odd that it was not higher into the active range, and the fire was not raging, just nice and lively. It was the first time I had ever run that stove on a high setting for any period longer than 30 minutes.

On Sunday, I noticed that when I engaged the cat, the fire died down to look like I was running the stove on a medium setting. But the t'stat was set to high, as it always is for the first 20 - 30 minutes of cat engagement. I decided to let the stove go out on Monday, and pulled the flame shield to check the cat. It was caked with a brown mossy looking substance (is this what others call "fly ash"?). I put a dusting brush on the vacuum wand, and very gently vacuumed it off. It came off very easily (I will post pics in a subsequent post) without even so much as touching the brush to the combustor.

Last night I fired the stove back up, and the cat is still sluggish. Stove rips like normal in bypass, but upon closing the the bypass damper the fire is definitely a little less lively (not dramatically, but noticeable) than normal.

I am not sure if the burning on high on Saturday was entirely to blame for the plugged cat. In fact, I had been noticing my burn times getting inexplicably longer from this stove, during the course of the season. I think that a large fraction of the plugging probably occurred gradually, over the course of the 3 cords I've put thru this stove since October, and the high burn on Saturday just sealed the deal.

I am now wondering if the vacuum could have pulled latent ash sitting in the chamber behind the combustor into the combustor, such that it is now clogged on the back side. It is burning okay right now, but cat temp is a little below normal, and it is slower coming up to temp with lazier flames at wide-open throttle.

I couldn't get mine clean with a brush and vac. The ash was way in the back, I had to remove it then shoot air through it with my compressor. I didn't need to pull it, but I wasn't sure what the problem was until it was out...

 

[black smoke signals]

Pic before vacuuming:

View attachment 194286

Tested vacuum on just a small area on right side:

View attachment 194287

All cleaned:

View attachment 194288

Subtracting the time I stopped to take these photos, the entire process took 30 seconds.

Looks like an Ashfull! Compressed air according to this video is wrong thing to do.Even though 30 second fix that you did I would of pulled the cat (5 min fix)then run a cotton tip to clean combustor.

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[webby3650]

Looks like an Ashfull! Compressed air according to this video is wrong thing to do.Even though 30 second fix that you did I would of pulled the cat (5 min fix)then run a cotton tip to clean combustor.

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If you don't have the gasket in hand, then pulling the cat would be the wrong thing to do. Low pressure compressed air will not hurt anything at all.

 

[jetsam]

There's a few of you on here waiting like vultures to pick apart any pro BK post that shows up in a thread.

I wouldn't complain about your posts.

Mostly because I'm afraid that you'll barehand me across the river with one arm!

 

[webby3650]

Not to mention a you won't be gettin a cotton swab through the cells of a steel cat. That's the issue here, the cells are much smaller on a steel cat, otherwise ash wouldn't really accumulate in the first place. A different cleaning method is necessary.

 

[lsucet]

Please i have questions. is related to my second installed regardless which stove i will install at the end.

I measured the masonry chimney diameter of the fireplace where planning the install and it is 11 x 6 1/2". Can a 6" liner be installed? What are the possible options? What can be done?

 

[edyit]

I measured the masonry chimney diameter of the fireplace where planning the install and it is 11 x 6 1/2". Can a 6" liner be installed? What are the possible options? What can be done?

Does your existing chimney meet required clearances? 1" if external 2" if interior. If the answer is yes then you might be able to squeeze a 6" liner into it but it will be tight. If it doesn't meet clearances then you would need an insulated liner and that would more than likely require hiring a pro to knock out the tile to make room.

 

[lsucet]

Chimney is built sticking out running completely outside of that back outer wall and it runs up two storey. for what i saw from the top the square/rectangle tile is centered and looks well away from the wall but i will have to look into it more to be sure.

 

[lsucet]

Does your existing chimney meet required clearances? 1" if external 2" if interior. If the answer is yes then you might be able to squeeze a 6" liner into it but it will be tight. If it doesn't meet clearances then you would need an insulated liner and that would more than likely require hiring a pro to knock out the tile to make room.

Sorry, thanks for the reply. i appreciate your help

 

[webby3650]

Chimney is built sticking out running completely outside of that back outer wall and it runs up two storey. for what i saw from the top the square/rectangle tile is centered and looks well away from the wall but i will have to look into it more to be sure.

Tall exterior chimney, I would remove the clay to make way for an insulated liner.

 

[bholler]

Tall exterior chimney, I would remove the clay to make way for an insulated liner.

I agree an ovalized 7" liner would be an option as well

 

[lsucet]

Tall exterior chimney, I would remove the clay to make way for an insulated liner.

I have to see what to do. I really will like to be able to use that existing chimney.

 

[lsucet]

I agree an ovalized 7" liner would be an option as well

I will have to contact a pro ana see what can be done plus inspect everything real good. Worse case scenario, i will cross over and run an external class A all the way up and brace it to the chimney

 

[bholler]

I will have to contact a pro ana see what can be done plus inspect everything real good. Worse case scenario, i will cross over and run an external class A all the way up and brace it to the chimney

We would just break out the old liners as long as they are not mortared in but some guys don't like to do that. The only time we wouldn't break them out is if they were in good condition and servicing a fireplace. In that case we would ovalize the liner . Also many times even a bare 6" liner wont fit down a 8x8 or 8 x 12 clay chimney it does not take much of an offset in a joint to cause a big problem.

 

[lsucet]

We would just break out the old liners as long as they are not mortared in but some guys don't like to do that. The only time we wouldn't break them out is if they were in good condition and servicing a fireplace. In that case we would ovalize the liner . Also many times even a bare 6" liner wont fit down a 8x8 or 8 x 12 clay chimney it does not take much of an offset in a joint to cause a big problem.

Yeah, when i look down i noticed looks like they are mortared. I have three days off this weekend i will look better into that and maybe take some pictures and give you better idea what is going on there cause sincerely, i don't know s....... about it.

 

[bholler]

Yeah, when i look down i noticed looks like they are mortared. I have three days off this weekend i will look better into that and maybe take some pictures and give you better idea what is going on there cause sincerely, i don't know s....... about it.

there should be mortar between the tiles what causes issues is if there is mortar tight around them that makes it next to impossible to remove the old liners

 

[Squisher]

Is there any telltale way to determine if they are mortared tight from just looking?

 

[lsucet]

Is there any telltale way to determine if they are mortared tight from just looking?

I will have to look more into it this weekend, now that i know for what to look for more in details.

 

[bholler]

Is there any telltale way to determine if they are mortared tight from just looking?

Cracks in the exterior masonry is usually a good indicator because the liner expands and doesnt have anywhere to go so it cracks the exterior.

You can also usually tell by how the liners sound when hit with a metal object. If they are installed correctly they will sound hollow. If they are mortared in there will be a dull thud.

But sometimes you just cant tell till you start trying to break out. It is a very unpleasant surprise.

 

[Woody Stover]

I just have a problem with a guy that insinuates your being more honest

Before you criticize me, you should walk a mile in my shoes. That way, when you criticize me, you're a mile away and you have my shoes.
Alright, I admit it, I stole that from Jack Handey.

at the risk of getting Woody Stover all riled up again, I have just experienced the Ashford 30 "plugged cat syndrom" others have reported here. I ran the stove on high for a good long run on Saturday, although it was not loaded full, and it was performing beautifully. Cat probe was holding right around 12 o'clock, right in the middle of the active range. In fact, I thought it odd that it was not higher into the active range, and the fire was not raging, just nice and lively. It was the first time I had ever run that stove on a high setting for any period longer than 30 minutes.
On Sunday, I noticed that when I engaged the cat, the fire died down to look like I was running the stove on a medium setting. But the t'stat was set to high, as it always is for the first 20 - 30 minutes of cat engagement. I decided to let the stove go out on Monday, and pulled the flame shield to check the cat. It was caked with a brown mossy looking substance (is this what others call "fly ash"?). I put a dusting brush on the vacuum wand, and very gently vacuumed it off. It came off very easily (I will post pics in a subsequent post) without even so much as touching the brush to the combustor.
Last night I fired the stove back up, and the cat is still sluggish. Stove rips like normal in bypass, but upon closing the the bypass damper the fire is definitely a little less lively (not dramatically, but noticeable) than normal.
I am not sure if the burning on high on Saturday was entirely to blame for the plugged cat. In fact, I had been noticing my burn times getting inexplicably longer from this stove, during the course of the season. I think that a large fraction of the plugging probably occurred gradually, over the course of the 3 cords I've put thru this stove since October, and the high burn on Saturday just sealed the deal.
I am now wondering if the vacuum could have pulled latent ash sitting in the chamber behind the combustor into the combustor, such that it is now clogged on the back side. It is burning okay right now, but cat temp is a little below normal, and it is slower coming up to temp with lazier flames at wide-open throttle.

Maybe I come off to some as irascible, but it really takes quite a bit to rile me up.
The cat on any stove, ceramic or steel, is going to get some fly-ash buildup. If I'm running a steelie, I usually have to pull it and blow it out at least once during the course of the season. With the ceramic in there, i might wait until the end of the season. I've got that one in there, and it still looks OK so maybe I'll make it...especially if the weather stays this warm. I don't have to replace the interam gasket, so it's quick and easy; remove 4 screws from the top-vent block-off plate, remove the cat/cat frame assy, blow it out, and replace. I would have to take out two hold-down bolts with the DuraFoil cat, if I had one. I still have a diesel-foil as my backup, and it uses the cat frame.
Obviously if one runs a vigorous fire more often, more dust is gonna be stirred up and the cat will plug faster. When starting a cold stove, I have the air about 3/4 open for maybe 5-10 min, then down to 1/2 open for the rest of the ramp-up to temp. I want to build heat in the box, not send it up the flue. When I close the bypass, I might have the air around 30% open for another 5-10 min, then I close it to cruise setting, maybe 15-25% open. If you go by your manual, you're gonna have a more vigorous fire than I usually do, and more often. But IIRC @webby3650, for one, doesn't leave the air open that long at the start of every burn.
At any rate, it sounds like the air flow through your cat is still a bit slow, so I'd blow it out. Not sure if you could do that with the cat in place to avoid replacing the interam gasket...might blow a little dust into the room, but shouldn't be too bad. webby seems to be suggesting it could be left in place. I don't think there's any way you could have pulled fly ash onto the back side with the vacuum, but there may be some inside the cat that a simple surface brushing wouldn't remove.

I have a spark screen on my chimney. Mine does not clog up even with the screen on it. I get very very little build up in the chimney. Each setup is different, each environment will produce different results.

What, I thought we were talking about cats!

Compressed air according to this video is wrong thing to do.

It's OK if you feather the air, don't blast it! I always mention that, so nobody gets the wrong idea. A compressor is the first thing everyone thinks of when you say they need to "blow out the cat."

 

[Marshy]

We would just break out the old liners as long as they are not mortared in but some guys don't like to do that. The only time we wouldn't break them out is if they were in good condition and servicing a fireplace. In that case we would ovalize the liner . Also many times even a bare 6" liner wont fit down a 8x8 or 8 x 12 clay chimney it does not take much of an offset in a joint to cause a big problem.

Can you post a picture of the tool you use to break the liner?

 

[Ashful]

Anyone have a photo of the cat from the chimney collar? Wondering if I can vacuum the back side of the cat if I pop the stovepipe off. I don't want to do it, but it may beat pulling the combustor.

Access from the front is at a steep angle to the face of the cat, not straight-on. So, blowing with air gun is going to be less effective with the combustor installed.