2015-2016 Blaze King Performance thread (Everything BK)

[blueguy]

Think you misunderstood me i turned the t stat to one on purpose to make the stove go out. So both tests would have flames in them when starting from the same startup.

I know my sweet spot between 1.75-2 but its been acting off this season so far. Thats why i stated about the flames taking much much lomger to go out.

I just went to check wood after sleeping and the cat is inactive plenty of charred wood on both side and middle is gone. Its like the t stat is not opening sometimes and not closing.

Your test method is faulty. The stat works on firebox temps, not on draft. In your first test, you waited until the firebox temp was up before turning it down, so of course the flames will go out quickly because you turned it to a setting down below the temp the firebox was at, causing the stat to close quickly. In your second test, you let the firebox temp get below the temp that would keep the stat open at 1.75, which required the firebox temp to come back up before closing, resulting in more time needed.

As far as the charred remains, sounds to me like your wood may be a bit wetter or your outside temps are a little too high for that setting. If the wood's moisture is a little higher than last year or the draft is a little less due to outside temps, the firebox will not heat up in the same manner as with drier wood or better draft causing the stat to stay open longer to get the temps up.

I have found that some of my wood is not as dry as last year and the outdoor temps are staying a little higher than last year at this time, requiring me to keep the stat setting a little higher to get useable heat. Keeping the stat slightly higher has also resulted in needing to use an extra split to get me my 24 hour burn. What I also do on my reloads is to get the cat temp up and let it burn on high for about 10 - 15 mins before turning it down to the required setting. I find this gets the flames out very quick and the wood completely consumed by the end of the burn. I have tried turning the stat down earlier after closing the bypass, which resulted in flames for a long time and some charred and unconsumed bits left.

What I would suggest is to try letting the load burn with the bypass closed for a longer time bringing up the firebox temp, and then setting the stat slightly higher than 1.75 (try O or R) at a given outdoor temp to see if that changes the left overs and has less flame over the duration of the load.

It may or may not work for you, but over the course of the last 2 seasons with my Sirocco, I have had to slightly adjust my settings and procedures to compensate for the cat and bimetallic spring being broke in.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ashful]

For me to get through the depths of winter running a BK on "low low" I would need the "Second Coming of Angry Jesus" sized BK stove, probably about a 15 cubic foot firebox with dual 16" pipe coming off it.

I can burn a face cord in four days in really cold weather... can't imagine stuffing that much wood into a stove all at once.

I have run thru a full cord per week, and still need oil on top of that, and we're usually hitting highs above freezing most days! I still run one of the BKs on low and slow, though... it's what suits my schedule.

 

[blueguy]

If this is true, then folks with the swoosh sticker are going to be in for some real trouble.

Agreed. It's very hard to have repeatable performance without a firm reference point. It's too bad BK won't consider the option of an aftermarket numbered sticker.

 

[rdust]

Agreed. It's very hard to have repeatable performance without a firm reference point. It's too bad BK won't consider the option of an aftermarket numbered sticker.

Doesn't take much to create some reference points. A sharpe with a few dots along the swoosh is all one needs.

 

[blueguy]

True. But it's also as equally easy for them to continue providing a tried and true method for those who want it. Even though part of the reasoning was apparently due to people complaining about stove performance at a given setting compared to others', it also allows for accurate troubleshooting suggestions or comparisons with those of us with the numbers, even with different setups. That being said, I have a numbered sticker and really have no dog in the sticker fight, but I'm happy with my numbered sticker and I'll be "sticking" with it [emoji38]

 

[Highbeam]

Think you misunderstood me i turned the t stat to one on purpose to make the stove go out. So both tests would have flames in them when starting from the same startup.

I know my sweet spot between 1.75-2 but its been acting off this season so far. Thats why i stated about the flames taking much much lomger to go out.

I just went to check wood after sleeping and the cat is inactive plenty of charred wood on both side and middle is gone. Its like the t stat is not opening sometimes and not closing.

You're either confused or confusing. Not sure what you're doing but maybe someone else can understand? Bottom line, is regardless of flames, this stove works by adjusting the stat knob for more or less heat. The low end is limited by the cat going inactive. More flames does not necessarily equal more heat.

 

[rdust]

True. But it's also as equally easy for them to continue providing a tried and true method for those who want it. Even though part of the reasoning was apparently due to people complaining about stove performance at a given setting compared to others', it also allows for accurate troubleshooting suggestions or comparisons with those of us with the numbers, even with different setups. That being said, I have a numbered sticker and really have no dog in the sticker fight, but I'm happy with my numbered sticker and I'll be "sticking" with it [emoji38]

People have already worked past it for comparison. 1, 2, 3 o'clock etc. I also have a numbered sticker so I'm good!

 

[Highbeam]

People have already worked past it for comparison. 1, 2, 3 o'clock etc. I also have a numbered sticker so I'm good!

People's estimations of the o'clock position will never be accurate or precise enough. Those of us with the classic label know how even the very smallest of adjustments to the knob can have big impacts on burn rate.

 

[RustyShackleford]

People's estimations of the o'clock position will never be accurate or precise enough.

Even more significantly, how do we know there's all that much consistency in the mounting position of the knob on the shaft coming from the thermostat assembly ?!? From the factory, I mean; never mind my case, when removing the side panels, I removed the knob without noting its position.

 

[Niko]

You're either confused or confusing. Not sure what you're doing but maybe someone else can understand? Bottom line, is regardless of flames, this stove works by adjusting the stat knob for more or less heat. The low end is limited by the cat going inactive. More flames does not necessarily equal more heat.

Im not explaining it right lol. I have a good idea of how the stove works. All im saying is the same scenarios i did all last year are totally oposite now. Either my wood is gone to fast or the stove is stalling really fast and the T stat is staying im my sweet spot.

I did some tests before to see and tried to mimic the same scenario everytime to see if I wouldget same results. i just did not explain it well. In the last 2 weeks i habe noticed either super fast burns or cat stalling. Im gonna get my moisture meter and read my next load to see what is going on. Unless the supply i got 2 seasons ago parts were dry and other were super green. But i did not test the wood this year as i assume it was seasoned.

For example i left around 4pm to go out with the family wood was nice and charcoal and the cat was 3/4 into active. I got home at 7pm and the cat was all the way in inactive. Let me put my moisture meter on my next load and ill get back.

 

[Ashful]

Even more significantly, how do we know there's all that much consistency in the mounting position of the knob on the shaft coming from the thermostat assembly ?!?

That doesn't really matter. The gripe is being able to learn what settings work best for your stove in your installation, and have some repeatable visual reference for those settings. I don't think anyone expects any level of consistency of knob position from factory, or between stoves in differing installations.

 

[rdust]

Im not explaining it right lol. I have a good idea of how the stove works. All im saying is the same scenarios i did all last year are totally oposite now. Either my wood is gone to fast or the stove is stalling really fast and the T stat is staying im my sweet spot.

I did some tests before to see and tried to mimic the same scenario everytime to see if I wouldget same results. i just did not explain it well. In the last 2 weeks i habe noticed either super fast burns or cat stalling. Im gonna get my moisture meter and read my next load to see what is going on. Unless the supply i got 2 seasons ago parts were dry and other were super green. But i did not test the wood this year as i assume it was seasoned.

For example i left around 4pm to go out with the family wood was nice and charcoal and the cat was 3/4 into active. I got home at 7pm and the cat was all the way in inactive. Let me put my moisture meter on my next load and ill get back.

If the wood and everything else is good I'd guess the cat is the issue before the stat. With a good chimney and wood the stat shouldn't have to open to keep the cat active. Pull the shield down and post a pic of the cat.

Where does the stat close on a cold stove?

When was the chimney last checked/cleaned?

 

[Highbeam]

That doesn't really matter. The gripe is being able to learn what settings work best for your stove in your installation, and have some repeatable visual reference for those settings. I don't think anyone expects any level of consistency of knob position from factory, or between stoves in differing installations.

Exactly. I use exact knob positions to operate my stove depending on conditions, fuel, and desired output. Real exact, like not the n but the o in the "normal" label. Between 1 and 2 o'clock is 30 freaking degrees.

Your exact settings will be different but not so different that we can't guide you in to a nice landing.

 

[Highbeam]

Even more significantly, how do we know there's all that much consistency in the mounting position of the knob on the shaft coming from the thermostat assembly ?!? From the factory, I mean; never mind my case, when removing the side panels, I removed the knob without noting its position.

You can reset that knob to factory spec. Max throttle stop puts the pointer at 6o'clock. That's all they do at the factory.

 

[dh1989]

If you haven't noticed yet, I'm a numbers guy. I've been told I should have been an engineer. I used last winter to calculate my oil K-factor and oil use per heating degree day correcting for hot water use. I did some rough calculations to output/net BTUs and in turn have been weighing my wood with a hand scale and bucket at 1.5 lbs per degree day as I load the stove.

I usually start the stove around 6pm and let it burn out unless the degree days are high enough to have extra wood allotted for a morning reload. Yesterday I had 24 expected degree days for the next 24-hr period so I loaded the stove with 36 lbs of wood. This packed the firebox full to the point where I even stuck the final piece sideways E-W almost touching the glass. Here is a burn data log for a mild weather day with almost a 24-hr burn:

________________________________________
11/28/2015:

Heated Space: 1000 sqft (upstairs)
Typical Annual Heating (Net) BTUs on Oil: 50,000,000

Fire Lit: 11/28/2015 1810 (TSTAT=6 / OAT=45F / IAT=65F)
Cat Active: 11/28/2015 1835 (TSTAT=5 / OAT=44F / IAT=66F)
Thermostat Reduced: 11/28/2015 1900 (TSTAT=3 / OAT=44F / IAT=67F)
Before Work: 11/28/2015 2300 (TSTAT=3 / OAT=43F / IAT=68F)
After Work: 11/29/2015 0830 (TSTAT=4 / OAT=37F / IAT=68F)
24-hr Low OAT: 11/29/2015 1000 (TSTAT=4 / OAT=36F / IAT=72F)
Cat Inactive: 11/29/2015 1620 (TSTAT=4 / OAT=43F / IAT=71F)

Wood load: 36 lbs mixed hardwoods
Total cat active time: 21 hrs 45 min

Burn period OAT High: 46F
Burn period OAT Low: 36F
Burn period degree days: 24

Notes:
The firebox was filled to capacity with 36 lbs of mixed hardwoods. The daytime solar gain from the south windows on 11/29 was good (clear skies). The stove thermostat was set to 3 o'clock between 11/28 1900 - 11/29 0830. The thermostat was set to 4 o'clock from 11/29 0830 to the end of the burn.

TSTAT=Thermostat setting in O'CLOCK
OAT=Outside air temp. (weather station 1 mi away)
IAT=Indoor air temp. as measured in house middle hallway (far bedrooms ~4-6F cooler)

________________________________________

This burn reduced all of the wood (12-15% MC mixed hardwood) to fine white ash and small pieces of glowing coals mixed in. The house temperature stayed regulated in the upper 60s/low 70s which is how I prefer it. I will be reloading in another 1-2 hrs and will most likely have enough coals left to restart without a fire starter. I will repeat my log on a much colder (and cloudy) day and see how things look. So far I'm quite pleased with the performance of this stove.

 

[sadpanda]

ok 45 pages later and I still have questions... BK Princess insert

Can someone first confirm what 'safe operating' temperature is on this stove? Can someone confirm that the bimetallic spring in the thermostat has enough travel to prevent an overfire no matter its position and even if the fan is not running?

If I reload and leave the fan off and thermostat turned fully down, the cat probe will march right to its maximum active range which which is 625F surface temp. At this point I've been hitting the fans because if I don't, it will keep going.

Thanks

 

[rdust]

I

ok 45 pages later and I still have questions... BK Princess insert

Can someone first confirm what 'safe operating' temperature is on this stove? Can someone confirm that the bimetallic spring in the thermostat has enough travel to prevent an overfire no matter its position and even if the fan is not running?

If I reload and leave the fan off and thermostat turned fully down, the cat probe will march right to its maximum active range which which is 625F surface temp. At this point I've been hitting the fans because if I don't, it will keep going.

Thanks

Steel stove is probably good to 800 for a short time without worry. The cat temp is going to do what it wants, if the cat is new it will settle in after a while.

 

[Lanningjw]

ok 45 pages later and I still have questions... BK Princess insert

Can someone first confirm what 'safe operating' temperature is on this stove? Can someone confirm that the bimetallic spring in the thermostat has enough travel to prevent an overfire no matter its position and even if the fan is not running?

If I reload and leave the fan off and thermostat turned fully down, the cat probe will march right to its maximum active range which which is 625F surface temp. At this point I've been hitting the fans because if I don't, it will keep going.

Thanks

I have the blaze King insert also. Yes it will reach those kind of cat temperatures if the fan is not on. The stove is contained within a fireplace and this is the cause of the increase in temperature. This was also a concern that I had regarding stove temperatures on the Insert. I just pulled my cat and put a new one after 5 seasons of burning. The cat did not show to be over fired by falling apart or anything it looked to be in really good shape. I was very concerned about this but it doesn't seem to be a problem.

 

[Ashful]

BK claims these stoves can run on their highest setting for the full burn cycle, without damage, provided the bypass door is closed and all gaskets are in good condition. I haven't tested this, and am personally a little skeptical when run on a high BTU wood like oak, but this is their claim.

Personally, I've seen the guard that shields the cat warp and sag after just 20 minutes running on high with a new stove. I can't imagine running on high the full 30 minutes they've recommended as daily practice, but I suspect 99.9% of their testing was done on lower BTU western woods.

 

[blueguy]

I've run my stove on high for a couple hours on hardwoods, flue temps never got over 900, stove top never over 600 (this is on the far right side of the stove top, not over the cat). No damage at all. Cat's nice and clean and no sagging or other alleged damages that others have claimed.

FWIW, the stove top temp right over the cat is not an accurate indicator of stove temps, which is why I measure mine way off to the right.

 

[Highbeam]

ok 45 pages later and I still have questions... BK Princess insert

Can someone first confirm what 'safe operating' temperature is on this stove? Can someone confirm that the bimetallic spring in the thermostat has enough travel to prevent an overfire no matter its position and even if the fan is not running?

If I reload and leave the fan off and thermostat turned fully down, the cat probe will march right to its maximum active range which which is 625F surface temp. At this point I've been hitting the fans because if I don't, it will keep going.

Thanks

Quit using the cat meter for anything other than an on/off switch indicating whether the cat is active or it is not. That's all it's for.

Also, quit trying to measure surface temp. This isn't a non-cat. In general, the stove top is heated by the cat in one little spot. The temperature of that one little spot is not as important as how big that one little spot is. So rather than worrying that your stove top is 625, you would want to know if the entire top is at 625 or if it's just that one place. It matters not, if you're cold then turn up the stat.

 

[Highbeam]

I can't imagine running on high the full 30 minutes they've recommended as daily practice, but I suspect 99.9% of their testing was done on lower BTU western woods.

I've done it for kicks (Actually setting #3 which is nearly full throttle), but it did not accomplish much cleaning action and the glass was still dirty. I no longer play with fire this way.

 

[blueguy]

I've done it for kicks (Actually setting #3 which is nearly full throttle), but it did not accomplish much cleaning action and the glass was still dirty. I no longer play with fire this way.

Interesting. I've run mine wide open, and it cleaned the glass very well, although the lower corners were still a little black. The firebox didn't really clean up though, but the stove seemed to run better afterwards.

I wonder if it has to do with the front slope on the princess vs the vertical front on the 30 series stoves?

 

[Highbeam]

Interesting. I've run mine wide open, and it cleaned the glass very well, although the lower corners were still a little black. The firebox didn't really clean up though, but the stove seemed to run better afterwards.

I wonder if it has to do with the front slope on the princess vs the vertical front on the 30 series stoves?

BKVP seems to think that the shallow belly of the 30 series box leads to cleaner glass. Heart of the fire is closer to the glass. In general, you 30 guys seem to have an easier time keeping glass clean.

 

[jeff_t]

FWIW, the stove top temp right over the cat is not an accurate indicator of stove temps, which is why I measure mine way off to the right.

Totally agree. IR thermo shows more interesting things.

I've seen in excess of 750 on the front of the stove, but barely over 600 on top of the cat, when burning WFO.