2013 VC Burning Thread

[jharkin]

Yes, when they work right they are amazing. I think that the load Ive got in there now has got to be one of the most intence loads Ive ever run. 3 hours in and Ive been averaging 650-700 griddle the entire time and have the livin room hotter than ever.. hotter than I can stand.

I hope its just running hot because of the fact I had started a fresh fire from a cold stove with a lot of little pieces and hen threw a couple of big ones on top before engaging... too much small wood and very strong draft.

 

[jharkin]

So second load of the day.... the coal bed from earlier had really burned down by the time the house cooled, loaded 4 really big heavy splits this time and it took a long time to come up to temp again (griddle had dropped to 250ish). I engaged early at 450 griddle after 40 min, it took a while then lit off and very slowly climbed to temp. At 30 min in the cat temp is up around 900 and its cooking along, though griddle dropped back down to 400.

Now its starting to settle into a groove and heat up again. Just took a while with the denser load. So I guess this mornings blast furnace was all due to lots of little splits.

The ceramic is definitely slower to react than the old steel, but I am seeing relatively clear exhaust even with lower cat temps under 1000. The steel would have been belching smoke still at this point.

 

[jharkin]

Well 3 hours from reloading now and again it has climbed to 650F griddle and 1600 cat. This ceramic definately reacts differently than the steel. I think I need to work on a new routine for leading so I get a good solid initial lightoff without getting the endire load blazing, because even though it does it slower it just keeps climbing off and then burns tooooooo fast.

 

[jharkin]

Talking to myself a bit, but I want to keep this documented for later...

Around 5 I put in 3 small splits to carry the heat till I was ready for hte night load. It got going and I engaged at 450F griddle.. After a few minutes the cat lit and hten very slowly climbed to 1000 over about 30 minutes. Then once it got going goot it kept climbing to a peak of 1550 then dropped back to 1300 and held htat for another hour. All total over 2 hours of strong active cat on just 3 splits. Once it gets to 1500 the secondarys go nuts and the griddle temp climbed to 650 again. Again I didnt see any major smoke even at the low cat temps.

So I'm seeing a pattern, the ceramic is more sluggish to light and climbs temp a LOT slower than steel, but it hits and holds higher cruising temps, and puts out MUCH more heat. What I cant rule out is how the dry locust, very cold temp draft and just a hypersensitive brand new cat are impacting this behavior.


For the night load I made two changes to the routine... #1 I mixed in about 1/3 ash and maple to the load, and #2 (a first for me) I blocked off one of the 2 epa holes with foil. I hope that slows the beast down a little. Report in the morning.

 

[jharkin]

Well, frankly I don't know what to think now. Again it did the very slow climb to 1000, then kept going all the way to 1700+ I ended up plugging both epa holes, and did the open bypass dump heat trick, but it still wants to climb and secondaries like mad in the firebox.

I'm afraid to go to sleep with it at 1750 so I resorted to dumping a big load of ashes all over the load. That slowed it down and now the flames are low and the cat is at 1550.

What do you guys think? Just a combination of brand new cat dry wood and really cold night.... Or do I open it up to check for a newly developed leak?

 

[Diabel]

These stoves tend to burn each load differently. I experience it a lot. You just can't replicate your good previous burn/load. Leak... highly unlikely.

 

[Charles1981]

I like to put two small splits on the coal bed when reloading. They light off almost immediately. Then I try to put a monster split on top of the two smaller ones. Then I finally place two small rounds on the very top near the height of the griddle. I find this gives me the longest consistent burn, but not always the most heat.

If I want lots of heat now or need to build up the coal bed quickly if we slept in too long I just throw in all small stuff and watch the stove very carefully.

 

[31 bertram]

After changing the griddle gast and replacing the secondary damper probe last night I loaded it up about 3/4 full with good bed of coals and once the cat was engaged and dampered back it stayed around 650 for maybe 3 or 4 hrs. and slowly dropped. Alot better with the new damper probe..

 

[jharkin]

Thanks for the inputs, but Ive had this stove for 5 years, I know its habits, and this just doesnt feel right. It was just burning WAAY to hot, new cat or no.

This morning the stove was cold. It had burned completely out overnight with very little coals left by 6am. Its never done that before.


So trusting my instincts I cleaned things up and began checking everything over. Did the dollar bill test, everything seems ok except for the bottom of the left door which was marginal, but its always been that way. Then I looked at the back

And thats when I found the problem.

The primary air door was stuck half open! there was some coals or soot stuck in there, maybe junk fallen down from the summer rebuild I didnt fully clean out that migrated down. Took me a while sweeping it out with a small paintbrush but I eventually got it to seat.


WOW. I'm lucky the thing didn't go nuclear and warp on me. Also might explain why the cat temps would rise slow, it was running wide open and burning most of hte smoke in the firebox the entire time.

I have some work meetings now but will fire up again at lunch and report.



Sometimes you just have to trust your instincts... I'll have to remember to go back there and look at the primary if it ever acts up again...

 

[jharkin]

All is right in the world now, cat came up to temp much faster and I have control again. Closing the air kills the flame in the box as it should and probe temp is staying under 1500. Yay!

 

[31 bertram]

Sounds good, maybe you will do well tonight. Keep us posted.

 

[wood-engineer]

Just read thru this entire thread. Great stuff! I've been running a 2550 for the last 10 years & have had many of the same issues discussed here. Tried the steel cat for a while, was very happy to get back to the ceramic. Started running cat probes 5 years back or so & I agree that it is a must have for this stove. I did notice some talk about the primary not closing, and it just being brought up with Jeremy's recent issue. I want to share some knowledge on this subject, because it was a problem that plagued me for years. I think it could be a problem for a lot of you that have fire control issues.

As you slowly move your primary air control from open to shut, you should hear the primary flap shut. You shouldn't have to move it rapidly to hear the flap shut. If you don't hear it, do the following. 1. Move the primary air control fully closed. 2. Lay on your back with a flashlight and observe the flapper. You should be able to push the valve open with your finger and slowly let it close, and it should rest on its seat. It it very critical that it go completely closed & stay there, because if it does not go completely closed - there will be times when you will not be able to shut your stove down when it is loaded with dry wood! Just like Jeremy was experiencing recently.

On my stove, it came from the factory with the valve not able to fully close. It was very difficult to control, and there were times when loaded with dry wood when I could not bring the cat temp below 1500F. As many of you know, the primary air bi-metalic coil (located behind the primary control handle) has a steel cable attached to it. This cable runs down the side of the stove & is connected to the primary air valve. The air valve has a wire, about the thickness of a clothes hanger, that runs behind the inside of the stove to pick up the movement of this cable. The cable is threaded thru a loop in this wire & terminates in the air valve. On my stove, this wire was bent incorrectly from the factory. When the cable would go slack (hot stove) and try to shut the air valve, the wire loop would come in contact with stove casting and would not let the valve close! You could close the valve with your fingers, but the wire would act as a spring and open the valve about 5 degrees off the seat when you let go. When I finally figured out this problem, I had to bend the wire about 15 degrees to correct the problem. Then, the valve could shut completely and it was like having a brand new stove. With the EPA holes plugged, you could just about put the fire out (even with bone dry wood) if you shut the primary's down.

Another issue is broken off cement can fall under this "valve wire loop" and prevent it from closing. I have had this problem as well. I take out the primary air valve (by removing the 2 phillips screws) and tape a 1/2" flexible tube to my vacuum cleaner hose. You fish this tube in the back of your stove and suck out this debris.

Hope this helps some of you! It's 0F here in northern Michigan & I'm lovin' the fire.

 

[jharkin]

Sounds good, maybe you will do well tonight. Keep us posted.

It ran great. It was burning well all afternoon so at 8pm with a good 3in coal bed I loaded it full, 2 medium ash splits at the bottom then packed to the gills with locust. It only took 15 min to char good, shut down and it litoff and straight away climbed over 1k as I lowered the air in stages. By 8:45 I was cruising at minimum air with 450 griddle/1200 cat. Outside temp was 8F.

When I went to bed before 11 the griddle was 400 and the cat was up to 1300. Nothing but a glowing coal bed ans some small wispy blue flame in the bottom of the box.

Overnight the central heat kicked on a few times to supplement, and the stove just kept cooking. When I got up for work at 6am, the griddle temp was still 375, cat at 700 and the fire had burned down to a large pile of hot coals. I didn't bother loading up and just opened the air to let it burn down as Ill be out all day and the natgas will maintain the house. So I got 10 hours of decent heat there, and probably could have managed to rekindle a new load at 12 hours.

I realize that having the primary stuck the other day was just compounding problems. It was overfiring, but then also the house overheat so bad that I would let it practically go cold between loads and then have no coals and have to push it harder to light off a new cycle, just making the odds of another meltdown worse. SOOOO glad to have it back to normal. OTOH, it showed me this thing has the power to heat the house to 80 on an windy 10F day if I want too

Just read thru this entire thread. Great stuff! I've been running a 2550 for the last 10 years & have had many of the same issues discussed here. Tried the steel cat for a while, was very happy to get back to the ceramic. Started running cat probes 5 years back or so & I agree that it is a must have for this stove. I did notice some talk about the primary not closing, and it just being brought up with Jeremy's recent issue. I want to share some knowledge on this subject, because it was a problem that plagued me for years. I think it could be a problem for a lot of you that have fire control issues.

As you slowly move your primary air control from open to shut, you should hear the primary flap shut. .......

Welcome wood engineer. Thats great info thanks for sharing. When I rebuilt mine in spite of rags I did get some debris falling back there but I thought I had it all vacuumed out. Looks like I missed some which stuck mine open.


I know a few other posters here have reported their primary never closes all the way and they have to resort to things like plugging the EPA holes for control. Worth a check of that linkage guys.

 

[grobinson2]

The new Defiant 1975 arrived during the snow storm on the 21st without any issues and although the wife was not too happy I was able to get it in the house and set up with out too much snow coming in the door. Of course the exterior of the unit looks about the same as my previous 1945 but as soon as I opened the doors it was a completely different animal. First of all I would have to say that VC has diffidently stepped up there game when it comes to there quality control as everything from there castings to the refectory was spot on. All bolts are stainless and appear to have been coated with anti-seize grease. They have done away with the non-reversible glass for the doors and the front door latching mechanism is completely different with a roller bearing that engages the door jam. This is very smooth and locks up tighter then what was possible with my 1945. The stove does not run away on you like my 1945 would do but it also does not take off as fast as my 1945 and so takes a while to come up to temp. I have burned it with and with out the cat and while I like the burns better with the cat the doors will coke up with in a day or two if I am running the stove at 500 or less. So over all I am very pleased with the unit except for two things: The heat shield is a royal pain in the ass as it hides everything. I would normally just remove it but unlike on the 1945 the back of the 1975 is really ugly and they did not paint it (something I could easily fix of course) but the wife will not allow the stove to sit in our living room with out the heat shield. The second is the griddle handle. It is like the 2550 Encore in that it goes up and out where the 1945 was strait out. This is not as handy and hits the pipe if you have the stove setup in a top vent. I have attached pictures as I have seen very few shots of these stoves on the forums.

Thanks,
Glenn

 

[grobinson2]

More pics...

 

[jharkin]

Nice looking Defiant there Glenn, welcome to the discussion!

What do you think about the durability of the hard cast refractory so far ? The one concern Ive heard about these models is getting cracks if you hamfirst the wood in there...

 

[Diabel]

Yes, very nice stove.
It is interesting what you say about the griddle handle hitting the pipe in open position.... It just does not make sense.

 

[31 bertram]

Congrats on the stove, is this a new unit, are they (VC) still making stoves?

 

[grobinson2]

The cast refractory is light years a head of the soft refractory from the 1945. It is so thick and heavy that I would have to really smash a piece of wood or a poker into the front of it to get it to brake.

What do you think about the durability of the hard cast refractory so far ? The one concern Ive heard about these models is getting cracks if you hamfirst the wood in there...

I will attach a picture below that shows what I am talking about in reference to the griddle handle hitting the top discharge pipe.

It is interesting what you say about the griddle handle hitting the pipe in open position.... It just does not make sense.

This is a new unit and they are pumping out stoves faster then ever before. Mine was made in KY though not VC, or at least that is where it was shipped from and what is engraved into the back of the stove.

Congrats on the stove, is this a new unit, are they (VC) still making stoves?

Thanks for the comps guys, I really do like it.

Glenn

 

[BrowningBAR]

If I had the handle extender on my Defiant, it would also touch the pipe. Mine is an older cat model.

 

[jharkin]

This is a new unit and they are pumping out stoves faster then ever before. Mine was made in KY though not VC, or at least that is where it was shipped from and what is engraved into the back of the stove.

Well we know the most recent buyer MHSC is based in KY right? I know the foundry in Vermont is still operational - I wonder if they cast the panels in VT then ship to KY for final assembly or have a warehouse in KY where they ship from?

 

[grobinson2]

Not sure on site of or organ but as far as the handle is concerned I am really starting not to like it at it's current location.

Glenn

 

[Diabel]

Hm,
Minor but I am sure annoying design flaw.
The encore has a good 2" space between.

 

[Charles1981]

There are previous posts about the 2n1's removable refractory cover being very easy to break, however there have also been reports that when replaced the new replacement seemed to be more hardy than the original OEM cover.

So far my 2n1's (encore) has been holding up. It is the sea-shell design which may still be the original OEM "light-duty" cover...but it hasn't broke on me yet (finger's crossed). The replacement's all seem to come with your oval design.

 

[grobinson2]

Yep unit came with the thicker oval.