1970's Darth Vadar mask sheet metal stove

[coaly]

Again, a picture of the current install (inside the house) and the chimney (outside), will speak volumes.

Get yourself a free photo account at Photobucket, post your photo there and then put a link here in your thread.

Shari, there is no current install. He sits it in front of a window and sticks a piece of stove pipe out the window for emergency heat.

Here's my new TV.

 

[RNLA]

I am thoroughly disgusted with this. I am trying to understand why this person does not put in natural gas or propane for the unexpected outage. If you could get by with a small heater then hook up a small propane fueled furnace. It seems like everything is a temporary install and patch job. I do understand thinking it should work now if it worked before but I think from the sounds of things he/she does not have any intention of keeping their home heated with wood. Therefore they don't want to spend any money and just get by with what they have. I'm sorry but this is neither safe nor sane, penny wise - pound foolish! :blank:

 

[Fsappo]

If a woodstove thread thoroughly disgusts you.....

 

[Jaceymae]

To the disgusted one, my apologies. I am merely trying to use what I consider an esthetically pleasing alternative. If I can wrap my mind around why this stove is not drawing as it did before, it will also satisfy my interest in how things work. I appreciate any replies along those lines. My stove is every bit as beautiful a TV as the previous commenters, albeit a little less Jetsonian.

 

[begreen]

Still waiting for pictures so that we can see what you are seeing.

 

[Meneillys]

Sorry to most on here I am the Macgyver type. But sadly I do not have much experience with wood stoves besides splitting and stacking fire wood for my grandfather. I would say if you have the stove and it did work why not repair it and use it the maybe one time a year. Just make sure to have meters to pick up dangerous gases if there are any. I would not want to go buy a new stove or plumb a new gas stove for something used maybe once a year. If there is an air leak you could pressurizer the stove while its cold via the stove pipe and feel for air leaks or if its easy to clean use soapy water and look to bubbles.

 

[begreen]

I'm much the opposite. I wouldn't have a stove with serious holes as a backup any more than I would have a truck needing a brake job as my emergency vehicle. This may only be for a few days a year, but as with most emergency systems, when you need them, you really need them. And you need them to work well because you will be pushing them hard and depending on them, possibly for your life and safety. But with single wall pipe on a holey stove, we are just guessing what changed without seeing how it was installed and the visual condition of the stove. I still don't even know what a Darth Vadar mask stove is supposed to be.

 

[remkel]

BeGreen:

As OBWon would say " Use the force- trust your feelings".

Using the force, I tend to think this stove is a bit roughed up. Trusting my feelings, I think I would hesistate to light her up.

I must now must go out and destroy a death star.....

 

[Meneillys]

One thing I thought about after posting. I would not use the stove cement for the reason posted after heating up and cooling down it is going to crack and leak. I would have them welded. I think working seven years fixing machines that had no replacement made me into the type that thinks anything can be fix but at the same time if I knew it was working but was going to harm the user it wouldn't go back to the production floor.

 

[coaly]

Or a rivited patch...... from an old juice can. There's your Mcgyver stove.

 

[Jaceymae]

I'm much the opposite. I wouldn't have a stove with serious holes as a backup any more than I would have a truck needing a brake job as my emergency vehicle. This may only be for a few days a year, but as with most emergency systems, when you need them, you really need them. And you need them to work well because you will be pushing them hard and depending on them, possibly for your life and safety. But with single wall pipe on a holey stove, we are just guessing what changed without seeing how it was installed and the visual condition of the stove. I still don't even know what a Darth Vadar mask stove is supposed to be.

I wouldn't have a stove with serious holes either. As I said a mile back there, NO HOLES! JUST DOESN"T DRAW WELL when fire is low...sheeeeeeesh! Just pull the plug you guys with the horrible handicap of NO IMAGINATION..and deep need to deep six my project. I appreciate all others, including the poor guy who has to sheepishly admit MyGyverism. I'll figure it out, it will be safe and if not, I will pull it. But not until a rational mind has me convinced, and so far those arguments have more holes than my stove USED TO HAVE.

 

[begreen]

Sorry, Zelda, the resident psychic is off duty this month. Perhaps I didn't read this, or my imagination is running wild:

The insert is in less that perfect condition with rust holes in the middle and is this the reason for the smoke?

 

[Jaceymae]

The insert has been repaired. NO holes. NONE..ZIP..NADA.

 

[Mt Ski Bum]

perhaps we could give you some better/more accurate advise if you could PLEASE post some pictures of your stove/set-up. We have requested pics. numerous times, & you so far seem to be ignoring us.

 

[Mt Ski Bum]

The insert has been repaired. NO holes. NONE..ZIP..NADA.

until that stove cement cracks from expansion/contraction...
as mentioned earlier, if you want to seriously fix that stove, forget the stove cement & weld those holes closed.
Again, pictures would help a TON.

 

[RNLA]

As I said before, most stoves have a recommended flue height, this is also the same as a chimney or pipe. If you do not have the correct amount of pipe it will not draft properly. The rule of thumb is usually about 15ft. minimum, all the way out to about 28-30ft. as in a two story install. The outlet of the pipe must be at least 2ft. above the tallest object within 10ft. in any direction. So if you do not fit these general parameters you will not draft correctly. The other factor is the pipe diameter, a 6" pipe of say 15ft. will have a different draft than an 8" pipe of the same length. Then the other factor is weather you use insulated pipe. The insulated pipe is for safety as much as it is to keep the heat in the pipe. In fact it is required for manufactured home installs in many states. So if you will read this and verify what I'm saying with a reputable professional who knows what they are talking about you'll see what you need to do. I do not believe I am to far off in my information and have done many installs for other people. The others here do know what they are talking about too. Being curious is OK but do it in a way that is verified by actual science look at some other installs and talk to other people. We still can not help without pictures, all we can do is imagine your set up and at this point we are having some wild imaginations! :gulp:

 

[agartner]

Jace, its the chimney that drives the stove. If the chimney gets cold , the stove wont draft. Elbows in the chimney also dont help either. My guess is that as your fire dies out, the chimney gets cold, the draft stops, and you get smoke and CO into the house. Figure out a way to keep the chimney warm. Ill leave that to you to mcguyver it as you see fit. As pointed out before, the chimney also has to be higher than your house. Otherwise, your stove will want to use your house as the chimney instead.

The rest is my opinion, if you dont want it, then accept the info above and stop reading here.

Based on what ive read in the thread above, this sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. A woodstove can and will either burn your house down or asphixiate you with carbon monoxide if not installed properly and safely. Either of these can and will kill you. Dead. No wakey and a sad little story on your local news. Try not to let this happen.

Good luck

 

[Jaceymae]

As I said before, most stoves have a recommended flue height, this is also the same as a chimney or pipe. If you do not have the correct amount of pipe it will not draft properly. The rule of thumb is usually about 15ft. minimum, all the way out to about 28-30ft. as in a two story install. The outlet of the pipe must be at least 2ft. above the tallest object within 10ft. in any direction. So if you do not fit these general parameters you will not draft correctly. The other factor is the pipe diameter, a 6" pipe of say 15ft. will have a different draft than an 8" pipe of the same length. Then the other factor is weather you use insulated pipe. The insulated pipe is for safety as much as it is to keep the heat in the pipe. In fact it is required for manufactured home installs in many states. So if you will read this and verify what I'm saying with a reputable professional who knows what they are talking about you'll see what you need to do. I do not believe I am to far off in my information and have done many installs for other people. The others here do know what they are talking about too. Being curious is OK but do it in a way that is verified by actual science look at some other installs and talk to other people. We still can not help without pictures, all we can do is imagine your set up and at this point we are having some wild imaginations! :gulp:

The picture I sent in the original post liquified in the ethers apparently. I have an extremely slow dial-up connection due to my remote location. Let me try to better paint you a picture with words. Darth Vadar's mask was rounded on the top, and he talked thru a grate...so maybe that was not the best description. The stove has a gaping opening 10" wide in the center and 3' wide from corner to corner. It has a 6" single pipe leading 42" from the top of the stove out the window via a 45degree coupling. There is more than 18" clearance to the sheetmetal opening. BTW, the house had this stove in it when I moved here in 1984. It drew fine and went up above the ceiling height outside, but not above the roof. This is why I am attempting to find out why the higher new extension is not drawing. Seems it would stay hotter without having the height you all say is a requirement to draw properly. It is 6" pipe to more than 2' above the eves, and above but not 2' above the peak of the roof which is within 10'. To do that would require another joint. There is a rain cap on top of that.

I appreciate all the detailed explainations, have lit only two small brief fires, and am not racing to kill myself or others.

Yesterday temps hit 90.

 

[pen]

If you downsize the pics you should have no problem, or click on my username and email them to me and I'll adjust them for the site for you. An email may take a while to send but may not time out like your web browser may be doing.

pen

 

[RNLA]

Ok, so another factor is the "offset" in the pipe when it transitions out through the window. There is a negative affect when you use a 90,45 or what ever angle it happens to be. On the size of the pipe being 6" the minimum height sholud total at least 1. I am not sure of the scientific calculations and reasons but it is the bare minimum of a straight pipe, more like 15ft. for a pipe with an offset and more if the pipe travels horizontally weather you use 45 or 90 degree transitions. The flue temperature that some others have hit on is important but a pipe of the proper size and length or height will draft naturally, also keeping in mind the clearance above the highest obstacle within 10ft. If you do not have 2ft. above the roof or are not at least 10ft. away you will lose draft. The other factors are going to include barometric pressure and weather conditions. The temperature of 50 or above probably is too warm to get good draft anyway.

 

[Jaceymae]

RNALA-You said, " On the size of the pipe being 6†the minimum height sholud total at least 1." Do you mean 10? as in 10 feet?

 

[begreen]

The description helps. Does it look something like this? If so, it's more a fireplace than stove. Is the top connection 6" pipe or is it a larger size that has been reduced down?

 

[Jaceymae]

The description helps. Does it look something like this? If so, it's more a fireplace than stove. Is the top connection 6" pipe or is it a larger size that has been reduced down?

THAT's IT! Do you know a name for it? Or manufacturer info? Mine had been reduced down to 6", and not quite as shiny. BUT THAT's IT!! Good Work!

 

[Jaceymae]

AND....mine is not on legs...has a sheet metal surround beneath it that lifts it 7" or so off the granite platform.

 

[begreen]

The unit may be a Malm Lancer, but that is just a guess. You can find more info here: http://www.malmfireplaces.com/lancer.html

A fireplace needs more air volume. It absolutely should not be choked down. The poor draft is being caused by the pipe size reduction and elbows in the pipe. Why or if it really worked well before I can not tell you.

Download the Lancer installation instruction for understanding how to safely install this stove. Please pay close attention to the hearth requirements as well as the flue piping.

http://www.malmfireplaces.com/pdf/lancer.pdf