Yay! Finally a Subaru hybrid!
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Too bad they only made them for 2 years. They are hard to find now...just about as rare as a Subaru SVX...if you don't know what those are! Look them up. They were quite advanced for their day...
Andrew
Sad indeed...but as mentioned earlier in the thread, it seems lots of companies are fudging their stats relating to fuel economy of their hybrids (according to some...)I guess we now know why they haven't come out with a hybrid before. Sad mpgs
Too bad. I'd be interested if it was mid 40's mpg.
Andrew
No matter what they do a Subaru hybrid will never have the mileage of a Prius. The AWD system adds a significant amount of drive train drag and extra weight, just getting it into the 30s makes it one of the most efficient full time awd vehicles out there I suspect.
In making this statement I don't count cars like the CRV and RAV4, as those are part time 4wd that only get 30+ mpg when driving in 2wd mode.
I've been changing the oil in my other vehicles from day one, but always just bought the Subaru in for service because it difficult for me to fit under it without jacking it up. So at autozone to get oil change stuff for my Expedition, I figured I'd change the Subaru's also. First, I didn't have the correct size oil wench that would fit into the tight quarters of the filter, then I ended up butchering it up until I got it loose. Literally 1.5 hours to change the oil... Takes me 38 minutes to change front And back brake pads.... Lol.. It was embarrassing, cause I usually have my wife time me to show how easy most of this stuff is and show why it's sometimes better to do the work yourself and save some money. When I finished, my wife goes " an hour and a half... I've never seen an oil change take that long" so I made up an excuse and told her the capacitance valve was misaligned and needed to be adjusted... I think she bought it, and my manhood is still intact!
I'm watching the next generation Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. It won't be here for another year but is getting good marks for fuel efficiency in Japan. It's 4wd, with a hybrid twist. Front wheel drive is gas or elect, with the rear wheel drive electric. It is kind of like a Chevy Volt, but AWD and with the battery hidden under the floors. There's no battery tbone in the middle of the interior and no battery hump in the back.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
I work closely with a guy who's the polar opposite of me, a left-wing bleeding heart liberal who spends his weekends hugging trees, and drives a Prius. We poke at each other all week long, but never seriously, and are actually great friends. I tease him that my lawn mower uses 3x the gas his car does per year, and I'm almost sure that's true. Then I sit back and think... my lawn mower uses almost as much gas as my PICKUP TRUCK, during mowing season!
I can consider a million reasons why a battery-powered car (Chevy Volt) is not so practical for many, but it seems I can come up with fewer reasons why a battery-powered riding mower is not practical. It only runs maybe 2 - 3 hours at a time, which should be easily achievable with a modestly-sized storage bank. Engine maintenance would be almost eliminated (did I mention I have to re-adjust my valve lash this week)? The noise complaints from neighbors would be greatly reduced (I always feel bad starting mine early in the morning, when I know my late-nighter neighbors are still in bed). Yet... I don't recall seeing many battery-powered or hybrid mowers on the market.
For reference... I'm not talking about push mowers, but something like a 25 hp Zero turn with a 50" - 70" deck. Mine eats gas at a rate of 2 gallons per hour when the grass is growing well in spring, and maybe 1.5 gallons per hour later in the summer, when the grass is less thick. It has no emissions equipment.
I can consider a million reasons why a battery-powered car (Chevy Volt) is not so practical for many, but it seems I can come up with fewer reasons why a battery-powered riding mower is not practical. It only runs maybe 2 - 3 hours at a time, which should be easily achievable with a modestly-sized storage bank. Engine maintenance would be almost eliminated (did I mention I have to re-adjust my valve lash this week)? The noise complaints from neighbors would be greatly reduced (I always feel bad starting mine early in the morning, when I know my late-nighter neighbors are still in bed). Yet... I don't recall seeing many battery-powered or hybrid mowers on the market.
For reference... I'm not talking about push mowers, but something like a 25 hp Zero turn with a 50" - 70" deck. Mine eats gas at a rate of 2 gallons per hour when the grass is growing well in spring, and maybe 1.5 gallons per hour later in the summer, when the grass is less thick. It has no emissions equipment.
How big is your lawn??? That's sounds like landscape contractor size gear 
Meaning... You might be an outlier case, and electrifying push mowers and small riding mowers for the majority would be better bang for the buck.
Meaning... You might be an outlier case, and electrifying push mowers and small riding mowers for the majority would be better bang for the buck.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
My lawn is just under 4 acres, so not exactly huge, but the big gear helps get it done without blowing an entire Saturday on mowing. I can mow in 2.5 hours, and have all trim work, etc., done in under 3 hours.
I think it would be hard to justify the cost of a hybrid or all-electric push or small riding mower, and besides... where's the benefit? They don't use much gas to begin with. I suspect a hybrid or battery powered mower is going to have a certain base price, regardless of size, commensurate with more expensive equipment.
Sorry to hijack the Subaru thread... but I guess it had already run its course.
I think it would be hard to justify the cost of a hybrid or all-electric push or small riding mower, and besides... where's the benefit? They don't use much gas to begin with. I suspect a hybrid or battery powered mower is going to have a certain base price, regardless of size, commensurate with more expensive equipment.
Sorry to hijack the Subaru thread... but I guess it had already run its course.
A 4 acre lawn is not big? That is a huge manor lawn. It must take forever to mow. I wouldn't think of electric for that size lawn unless it is with the hybrid Raven which so far is not getting rave reviews as a mower. For a cleaner burn, convert your mower to propane.
Sorry for the hijack. This is better discussed in the gear or DIY forums.
Sorry for the hijack. This is better discussed in the gear or DIY forums.
When I was a kid we had 2.5 acres of lot with about 1.5 of grass.... It was one of the biggest in town, a rich Connecticut town. As an adult I have 1/2 and that is pretty big for the Boston burbs. Statistically the average American household has only 1/3 acre! Joful you just might not realize that your house and lawn are larger than what 90% of Americans have. Hence my thinking electrifying such large equipment might not make a lot of difference in the big picture.
Maybe if you can get lawn services that service condo developments to buy such hybrid mowers it might be worth the development cost. Maybe...
Maybe if you can get lawn services that service condo developments to buy such hybrid mowers it might be worth the development cost. Maybe...
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Statistics are fun, in that you can twist them to prove almost any point. Perhaps most Americans are living on 1/3 acre, due to the high population densities on both crowded coasts, but then again... most of America (averaged by land mass) is living on MUCH larger lots. Tell a guy from Oklahoma or Arkansas that 4 acres is a "big" lawn.
The fact that there are quite a few companies out there competing in the 50" - 72" mower space, tells me my situation is not very unique, and there likely is a good market for such a mower. Your suggested 90% still leaves 30 million Americans on lots larger than mine!
scooby074
Feeling the Heat
Long time subaru owner here (Thats where my nick "Scooby" comes from).
Loyale, Chaser, Legacy.. Yep Ive had a few. And now I got 3 friends into the brand (2 Imprezas and a Legacy) although Im currently driving a Ford (garbage) and a Toyota (excellent).
In my opinion Subie is really dropping the ball here. They need to bring over the diesels and skip this hybrid stuff. Ive had great conversations with various Subaru manufacturer reps and they said the diesels "were going to happen soon". This has been the general consensus for the last 5 years!! How soon is soon???
Anyways, if they did bring it over in either the Legacy or the Forrester in diesel, they'd sell every one, assuming they didn't only offer the diesel as an option on a full load $$$, like Jeep is doing on the Cherokee. That's a sure way to NOT get broad acceptance of diesels. I know Id strongly consider either the Legacy or Forrester IF they offered diesel, with good mileage and on something other that a top of the range model.
To illustrate just how much Subie has dropped the ball and let the market catch them and move buy, one of their direct competitors in the Mazda6 is launching a diesel this year. Oh and dont get me started on the BRZ and its lack of AWD!!
Loyale, Chaser, Legacy.. Yep Ive had a few. And now I got 3 friends into the brand (2 Imprezas and a Legacy) although Im currently driving a Ford (garbage) and a Toyota (excellent).
In my opinion Subie is really dropping the ball here. They need to bring over the diesels and skip this hybrid stuff. Ive had great conversations with various Subaru manufacturer reps and they said the diesels "were going to happen soon". This has been the general consensus for the last 5 years!! How soon is soon???
Anyways, if they did bring it over in either the Legacy or the Forrester in diesel, they'd sell every one, assuming they didn't only offer the diesel as an option on a full load $$$, like Jeep is doing on the Cherokee. That's a sure way to NOT get broad acceptance of diesels. I know Id strongly consider either the Legacy or Forrester IF they offered diesel, with good mileage and on something other that a top of the range model.
To illustrate just how much Subie has dropped the ball and let the market catch them and move buy, one of their direct competitors in the Mazda6 is launching a diesel this year. Oh and dont get me started on the BRZ and its lack of AWD!!
... most of America (averaged by land mass) is living on MUCH larger lots. Tell a guy from Oklahoma or Arkansas that 4 acres is a "big" lawn.
Much of that land area is farmland, not lawns.
Go look it up in the census bureau data. Average lot size nationwide is
(broken link removed to http://www.census.gov/const/C25Ann/malotsizesold.pdf)
(broken link removed to http://www.census.gov/housing/ahs/files/ahs11/National2011.xls)
- as I read the data tables in the second sheet, single family homes on 5 acres or more are only 7% of all households. So I think its fair to say the vast majority of people in this country would consider that big.
I know I'm risking a trip to the can with this (sincere apologies to swedishchef for taking us so far off track). This is absolutely not meant as a criticism, just to point out that we are often predisposed to think our own situation is typical or average when its actually far from it (same psychological reason that everyone from the local burger flipper to Bill Gates will claim to be "middle class" when surveyed). For example I look around my town and I see that over half the homes (mine included!) are over 150 years old, 2 story, wood sided, with a full basement and heated with gas or oil fired hot water radiators. From that limited sample I might think this is a typical US house - but nationwide that probably describes something like 3% of all houses (with the vast majority probably being vinyl sided ranches on a crawlspace with gas forced air heat built after 1960).
So . . . to get this thread back on track . . . my wife loves her Subaru. We're thinking about going with an Outback with the CVT either this December or next . . . maybe used, maybe new.
Me . . . I'm still holding out hope that the next generation of the BRZ (love that styling -- reminds me a bit of Nissan's super car) will either be AWD . . . or have a turbo . . . or have both.
Me . . . I'm still holding out hope that the next generation of the BRZ (love that styling -- reminds me a bit of Nissan's super car) will either be AWD . . . or have a turbo . . . or have both.
I am glad the BRZ is RWD. Its meant to be an inexpensive traditional sports car. Awd would just add weight and complexity and hurt the handling. The turbo wouldn't hurt tho.
When the roadster version comes out this will be serious competition to the Miata and the dearly departed S2000.
When the roadster version comes out this will be serious competition to the Miata and the dearly departed S2000.
scooby074
Feeling the Heat
What should have happened with the BRZ IMHO was the Subie version should have been AWD, and turboed. Both turbo and especially AWD are Subie hallmarks. Having it 2wd goes against the brand.
The Toyota version should be the 2wd version. It fits with the brand, in the history of the Celica. And it should have had a Toyota motor.
Selling 2, mostly identical cars like this doesn't make much sense. Plus there was something else I read where there are some stupid import restrictions put on Subaru by the contract with Toyota, that restricts Subaru from selling more cars then Toyota. Im likely wrong on the exact numbers but it was something like for every 3 Toyota (Scion) FR-S Toyota imports, Subaru can import 1. This is going to drive customers to the Toyota dealership because Subie doesn't have or cant get what they want. Pretty dumb move on Subaru's part.
I am not certain i would like an wad sportscar...kinda defeats the purpose, no? Lol
I agree they need to bring diesels into the market. Perhaps with the arrival of the Mazda 6 diesel they will get moving. It is not like they need to design the damn thing, just bring it here!Long time subaru owner here (Thats where my nick "Scooby" comes from).
Loyale, Chaser, Legacy.. Yep Ive had a few. And now I got 3 friends into the brand (2 Imprezas and a Legacy) although Im currently driving a Ford (garbage) and a Toyota (excellent).
In my opinion Subie is really dropping the ball here. They need to bring over the diesels and skip this hybrid stuff. Ive had great conversations with various Subaru manufacturer reps and they said the diesels "were going to happen soon". This has been the general consensus for the last 5 years!! How soon is soon???
Anyways, if they did bring it over in either the Legacy or the Forrester in diesel, they'd sell every one, assuming they didn't only offer the diesel as an option on a full load $$$, like Jeep is doing on the Cherokee. That's a sure way to NOT get broad acceptance of diesels. I know Id strongly consider either the Legacy or Forrester IF they offered diesel, with good mileage and on something other that a top of the range model.
To illustrate just how much Subie has dropped the ball and let the market catch them and move buy, one of their direct competitors in the Mazda6 is launching a diesel this year. Oh and dont get me started on the BRZ and its lack of AWD!!
In Canada they don't sell many cars. Last month was their all time record sales and they sold just over 3000. Therefore they would not be able to sell that many BRZs. I agree, they went 2wd and it is counterintuitive. However, they are selling like hotcakes up here. I have had the chance to drive one and they are 10 times more fun than an RX8 or a miata. The S2000 is a damn fun car to drive as well though....
I wish Canada had US prices...I could get the 3.6r....here i can get the entrance level one for the same price. Lol
Not that simple. We have different emissions standards and different fuel. What works well in Japan or Germany won't necessarily work as well here. Google VW HPFP failures.
(broken link removed to http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2012/uh-oh-vw-tdis-might-not-be-just-rosy-mpg-numbers/)
scooby074
Feeling the Heat
I haven't driven one myself, but all that Ive read says that it is a heck of a fun car. Not too fast, but a whole lot of fun. Partly due to "undersize" tires.
AWD and the 2.5 Turbo out of the WRX would completely change that car, for the better!
Part of Subies past problems in Canada have been high prices.My buddy bought a WRX 3 years ago. He saved $5000? by driving to the US to get it. Subaru would get the numbers up, if they get the cost down.
agreed.
I bought a 2010 forester touring model a few years ago. It was a demo so I saved $4000. I still paid $30500 for it with a few bells and whistles... There is only one or two Subaru dealers in ns right?
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