XXV Fair market value

[Roospike]

If the buyer is a little too far away for warranty service ......... How did they get the stove in the first place ? when the big moneys were paid for the new stove it wasnt an issue then.

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Giv-n ya chit Harryback . not a heated debate. ;-)

 

[HarryBack]

If the buyer is a little too far away for warranty service ......... How did they get the stove in the first place ? when the big moneys were paid for the new stove it wasnt an issue then.

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Giv-n ya chit Harryback . not a heated debate. ;-)

GREAT POINT, Roo! Sometimes folks buy one somewhere and move....sometimes folks "find a deal" and pick it up god-knows-where, sometimes it was already in the house, and sometimes it gets sold by dealers who dont care where its going (and yea, thats not uncommon either!). Had a person want to buy a stove from us once....where was the end user? Nice, France! (yeah, I know, different circuitry, etc) We didnt sell it, but thats what you see.

 

[Roospike]

Dont dealers have some kinda wording on odd issues like your statement ?

With all the samples i gave on in-home service warranty work where i lived or how far away wasnt ever an issue just as long as i'm in the USA where i bought it. BUt again most of the warranty coverage is per the product and sounds like stoves are in left feild when it comes to warranty coverage.

 

[HarryBack]

you know, Roo, Im not sure about that. I do know that warrantee work doesnt make money....break-even AT BEST, almost always loses money. Harman figures that the cost of warrantee work should be built into the basic price of the stove, so the issues a dealer gets is taken care of in part by the profit of selling the unit. So therein lies the rub: If I didnt sell it, can I be expected to "eat it", warrantee-wise? Do I have to do service for my competition, who offers absolutely lousy service, but is in a much larger market than my own?

As for other products which require on-site service.....I wonder if maybe folks do that work because it makes money? Do they pay better? Maybe any of you guys who have done warrantee work on unrelated products can fill us in here on this?

Some dealers just offer absolute crap service as well.....of course when you buy the unit they are all smiles, expounding on their virtues, but when you call for service, they are "so backlogged" that they cant get out there for "a couple months" (true story, BTW).....that kinda sux as well, for the end-user....oh, yeah, the dealer will service it....in good time, when they have the time.

 

[Roospike]

Harry. we have to pardon Roo he bought a home crapo chop saw call Dewalt not a bad saw but certaintly not a Makita or Bosch

Dewalt a was one of the best names in woodworking power tool at one time. The quality of old Dewalt radial saws was famous, but Black and Decker bought the name and bastardized it, to sell their products at Home Crapo

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Woodworking power tools !?

Cutting thick steel baby ! Multi-cutter steel DeWalt saws ......... Woodworking is what i do when it gets cold in the metal work-n shops , add another log and maybe even 2x4 . :lol:

 

[Roospike]

you know, Roo, Im not sure about that. I do know that warrantee work doesnt make money....break-even AT BEST, almost always loses money. Harman figures that the cost of warrantee work should be built into the basic price of the stove, so the issues a dealer gets is taken care of in part by the profit of selling the unit. So therein lies the rub: If I didnt sell it, can I be expected to "eat it", warrantee-wise? Do I have to do service for my competition, who offers absolutely lousy service, but is in a much larger market than my own?

As for other products which require on-site service.....I wonder if maybe folks do that work because it makes money? Do they pay better? Maybe any of you guys who have done warrantee work on unrelated products can fill us in here on this?

Some dealers just offer absolute crap service as well.....of course when you buy the unit they are all smiles, expounding on their virtues, but when you call for service, they are "so backlogged" that they cant get out there for "a couple months" (true story, BTW).....that kinda sux as well, for the end-user....oh, yeah, the dealer will service it....in good time, when they have the time.

Sounds like a Harman issue with warranty payouts if thats the case. I'm just yapp-n from the other side of the fence but i totally see your point and where your coming from HB.

 

[HarryBack]

maybe, Roo....or maybe we are just doing something wrong...I dunno.

 

[Gooserider]

I agree that the warrantee cost should be built into the price of the product, TANSTAAFL and all that, but the cost should be part of the WHOLESALE cost built into what the dealer is paying (and passing on to the customer), not expected to come out of the dealers profit margin. My understanding is that's what other businesses do at any rate. If Harman is expecting the dealerto eat the warrantee costs, then it sounds like they are not treating their dealers fairly.

There is a balancing act involved, obviously it should be in everyone's interest to keep the amount of warrantee work to a minimum, so it shouldn't be a profit center for the dealerto be doing warrantee work as that would cause a conflict of interest. There are also obvious problems if warrantee work is to much of a money looser for the dealer, so it is probably best if it's a break-even or close to it. However this is also hard, as labor costs and other expenses vary in different areas.

I don't know what the answer is totally, other than to better define what is expected of each dealer, and having a FACTORY RUN method of ensuring customer satisfaction - If I was in charge of designing a program I'd probably put something in the owners manual to the effect that the company expected the original dealerto be the primary contact for warrantee service, and supplying a factory contact number to call if not happy with the original dealer, or needing to get service from another dealer for whatever reason.

In the dealer agreement, spell out the levels of service (such as maximum acceptable response time) expected, service areas to be covered, etc. as a condition of being a dealer. Also include a provision for penalties or loss of franchise if to many complaints are received.

If a customer calls the "service complaint" line, then depending on the reason for the complaint the factory might either contact the original dealer and tell him to make things right, or refer the customer to a second dealer, and possibly impose some penalty on the problem dealer... The dealer getting the referral might get an extra compensation on the resulting warrantee work.

Obviously I'm not the one in charge of such a program though, and this is just a rough idea, but it would seem like one way that would solve some of Harry's legitimate gripes, while also giving an incentive to provide services more in line with what customers get from other purchases.

Gooserider

 

[HarryBack]

All good ideas, Goose, in a perfect world, of course, but thats not the way it is in reality. Also, a dealership really isnt a franchise, as you dont have to buy into the franchise, just buy inventory. You can lose the right to buy from Harman, supposedly with too many complaints or, more obviously, by not paying the bills. Of course, if Harman nixed a dealership, they'd be in the position of having to find someone to do the warrantee work from the old units......possibly an agreement with a new local dealer?

 

[Gooserider]

All good ideas, Goose, in a perfect world, of course, but thats not the way it is in reality. Also, a dealership really isnt a franchise, as you dont have to buy into the franchise, just buy inventory. You can lose the right to buy from Harman, supposedly with too many complaints or, more obviously, by not paying the bills. Of course, if Harman nixed a dealership, they'd be in the position of having to find someone to do the warrantee work from the old units......possibly an agreement with a new local dealer?

Well I was calling it a franchise for lack of a better term - I think it's what my father used to call it back in his Mfgr Rep days, but I was in High School then so I don't recall exactly. To get in with him there had to be a reasonable territory available (he didn't want dealers so close they were needing to cut-throat each other) and then purchase a certain amount of inventory... He had tremendous dealer loyalty, but it was to him, not to the company as such - The companies he was originally working for got bought out by a conglomerate, the conglomerate eventually fired all the old management, my father was the last to go... His territory was pretty much built up to the point where he had more sales volume than all their other reps put together. However they fired him because "his "rate of growth" wasn't up to their expectations" as defined by the other reps. They did so in a rather rude way, just before the biggest trade show of the year. It cost the company though, as they lost over 90% of their dealer network in his territory within the next two years. As word got around about how my father had been treated, the dealers would sell of their existing inventory and drop the line - often with a message to the company that they didn't want to do business with an outfit that treated people that way.

To get back to the subject, yes if Harman wanted to drop a dealerthey would presumably have to make some sort of arrangement to cover his previous sales - This isn't all bad though, as it provides an incentive for them to work with the existing dealer if that was possible....

Gooserider