Wood stoves - true cost saving

[RustyShackleford]

As far as the intangible benefits of heating with wood, I can't believe no one has mentioned this (or maybe I missed it): the radiant nature of wood heat is vastly more comfortable and satisfying than blowing hot air through the house. Not to say that all wood heat is radiant (e.g. if you're not in the same room as the stove) or that wood is the only way to achieve radiant heat (e.g. steam radiators).

 

[firecracker_77]

I know the true intent in this exercise is for the purposes of financial analysis. However, I thing TA makes a good point. A return on investment is important but so is minimizing risk. The current condition of our government spending and the devaluation of our currency motivates me to keep piece of mind. If I lose power or our economy collapses, I have a back up plan.

I know this bypasses the point, but it played in heavily in my decision to by a wood stove.

Oh, and don't forget, a gas furnace or boiler had an initial investment as well. That should really play into this equation as well.

I hate to be a Debbie downer but there was an executive order pushed through allowing for nationalization of retirement plans. If the money is not in your possession, there is always a risk of whether it is really yours. I think money on paper is just that until you pull it out someday.

 

[KaptJaq]

I have two heating choices, oil or wood. With oil at 3.75 to 4.00/gallon I chose wood. The prior owners of the house used between 800 and 1,000 gallons a year. I put about 2,500 dollars into a new insert and repairs on an older stove downstair. I reduced oil use to about 200 gallons per year for DHW. Even with the toys, gas, oil, bar oil, and whatever else I spend to support my wood burning habit I know I am ahead, I just don,t know how much ahead...

KaptJaq

ps: the wood is all scrounged, none is paid for. I know I spend some time to gather it but it is time I would have spent in the gym...

KJ

 

[firecracker_77]

As far as the intangible benefits of heating with wood, I can't believe no one has mentioned this (or maybe I missed it): the radiant nature of wood heat is vastly more comfortable and satisfying than blowing hot air through the house. Not to say that all wood heat is radiant (e.g. if you're not in the same room as the stove) or that wood is the only way to achieve radiant heat (e.g. steam radiators).

Agree 100%. I am very warm in the winter. To the point of being overly warm at times. I would never have that with a furnace. Also, when you walk into the room with the stove, you hit the wall of heat.

 

[Coog]

I hate to be a Debbie downer but there was an executive order pushed through allowing for nationalization of retirement plans. If the money is not in your possession, there is always a risk of whether it is really yours. I think money on paper is just that until you pull it out someday.

I don't disagree. Not quite following your point though.

 

[teutonicking]

I got into heating with wood primarily because of big winter storms and weeklong power failures in the dead of winter. At first, I justified the investment in part because I thought I would save money with wood. But in reality, I like the hobby far too much to save very much. I have bought a lot of things that are not really necessary, but fun for me. We also have gas in our area (which has been very cheap, at least in the past few years). I spent a lot on my stove, SS liner and install, hearth install modifications, splitter, chainsaw, and lots of wood racks. I do get free wood for the most part, although there is a tremendous amount of effort cutting, splitting and stacking everything. I bet if you factored in my time spent as an opportunity cost, it would be much cheaper to just use gas. If you don't include the "labor" (which I don't really consider "labor" because I enjoy it and consider it a hobby/exercise, like so many others), then I figure I am recovering my investment at a rate of about $1000 a year. But it will take a long time to pay off what I have spent. If I end up buying a pickup truck, forget about it!--I will never be able to pay that off with my savings from free wood. The bottom line is that I love scrounging wood, moving wood, stacking it, admiring the hard work I have put into my stacks, and most of all, burning wood. I plan to do this for the rest of my life, as long as I am able to. I also love having my house close to 75 degrees all winter, instead of 68 or 69. Winter is a different experience as a result, which to me is priceless.

 

[firecracker_77]

I don't disagree. Not quite following your point though.

My point was that all the talk of IRAs and 401k returns could be somewhat meaningless. If I looked at a 10 year return, I'm way up maybe. If I looked at that same acct in Dec. 08, my returns would have been horrible or very negative. The stock market being high can turn on a dime and suck all the wealth right out. Numbers on paper are just that. And, I would not put all my eggs in one basket. Some hard assets are always a good thing. People on here with land are probably in some ways better off. Land is tangible....not that funny money...can't float more land or create it on a digital printing press

 

[pen]

Let's leave the stock market, 401k's, and general economic talk out of this room.

If I hear someone mention what they have in the bank in the hearth room, the assumption should be it's in reference to savings that are covered with a tarp or old metal roofing.

pen

 

[Jack Straw]

I think that my stove, 2 woodsheds and my large wood lot increase the value of my home quite a bit, not sure how to calculate that though.

 

[Chopernator]

Yeah I had 500 to 600 dollar electric bills for 3 months I put an end to that I paid 200 for my wood stove that I have now even though I need a larger one still it beats paying out of your you know what!
so the initial investment was around 600 dollars thats pipe and caulking the only thing I did not pay for was the tile for the hearth it was just sitting there unused. this will be my 3rd year with wood, in return my investment paid off.
Yes everything is electric heat and stove. Now every year all I need to get is the rope for the door and glass.

 

[Swedishchef]

Personally I don't save a penny.

I won't get into reasons why I burn with wood but money has nothing to do with it.

$2000 for my stove, $1400 for chimney, stove pipe and installation fees. I have to buy hardwood at $225/cord (I buy 2 per year but I can cut my own softwood). A sweep around here costs $150 (so I bought a sooteater for $140). I had to buy a chainsaw (had none), safety pants, helment with shield, axes, etc.

Considering I pay an average of 6-7 cents/kWh for electricity, saving money has nothing to do with why I burn wood. My house is 4 years old, I have R25 walls, R45 in the attic, R24 full basement walls. Electricity would be cheaper if you take everything into consideration...

Andrew

 

[firecracker_77]

Let's leave the stock market, 401k's, and general economic talk out of this room.

If I hear someone mention what they have in the bank in the hearth room, the assumption should be it's in reference to savings that are covered with a tarp or old metal roofing.

pen

Sorry Pen...point noted. I'm smarter than to mention anything to do with money...just got off topic a bit.

 

[firecracker_77]

Personally I don't save a penny.

I won't get into reasons why I burn with wood but money has nothing to do with it.

$2000 for my stove, $1400 for chimney, stove pipe and installation fees. I have to buy hardwood at $225/cord (I buy 2 per year but I can cut my own softwood). A sweep around here costs $150 (so I bought a sooteater for $140). I had to buy a chainsaw (had none), safety pants, helment with shield, axes, etc.

Considering I pay an average of 6-7 cents/kWh for electricity, saving money has nothing to do with why I burn wood. My house is 4 years old, I have R25 walls, R45 in the attic, R24 full basement walls. Electricity would be cheaper if you take everything into consideration...

Andrew

Yeah...same here, but you can be a lot warmer than you'd be if you were controlling a thermostat. Most people on thermostats don't crank the temps as you do on a nice full stove.

 

[Swedishchef]

I agree the heat seems to be different! The nice advantage is having the combination of both. I normally leave the basement thermostats at 15C (my basement is 1325 sq feet) but when I get a fire going and the stove is cold, I crank the thermostats to 21 to avoid the lag of the stove warming up....

Andrew

 

[colin.p]

Even though the start-up cost of wood is usually high, the upkeep is fairly low. Factor in the cost of wood (I buy mine) and I only save a pittance over oil, even though I also heat with oil. However there is the cost of oil burning equipment as well.

A furnace can last longer than 20 years, however, insurance companies have declared outright war on oil heat (at least up here in Canada) and will make you change it out on a whim. They make you replace the tank every 10 years, even if there is no sign of rust on it, just to make you buy a new one. Plus they keep changing the codes and let the oil supplier do the policing to make you update before they sell you the oil. Since 2001, I have replaced the tank twice, (the latest was replaced last year to the tune of $2000), the furnace was replaced in 2001 ($3600) and the chimney was relined in 2005 for $1000. The tank is supposed to be warranted for 30 years (Roth tank), but I was told by the installer that the insurance companies (all of the bas&^%$) will still want a new tank in 10 years.

So the outlay for the stove install ($5000) should be good for a lot longer than that, and so far (knock on wood) at least I have a ready supply of heat whether the hydro is going or not.

 

[pen]

Sorry Pen...point noted. I'm smarter than to mention anything to do with money...just got off topic a bit.

poo happens

 

[Huntindog1]

With the weird weather patterns these days its good to have a stove plus more downed trees to burn also.

 

[firefighterjake]

I sometimes walk outside in my boxers and my wife calls me hillbilly.

I just tell my wife that the neighbors will think they are shorts . . . she says they will know the difference.

 

[HDRock]

I don't disagree. Not quite following your point though.

If it is a contract , it is binding, and don't renege on me

 

[Coog]

My point was that all the talk of IRAs and 401k returns could be somewhat meaningless. If I looked at a 10 year return, I'm way up maybe. If I looked at that same acct in Dec. 08, my returns would have been horrible or very negative. The stock market being high can turn on a dime and suck all the wealth right out. Numbers on paper are just that. And, I would not put all my eggs in one basket. Some hard assets are always a good thing. People on here with land are probably in some ways better off. Land is tangible....not that funny money...can't float more land or create it on a digital printing press

I couldn't agree more....and even land is worthless during anarchy. Brazil's currency went devalued almost completely over night many years ago.

 

[jharkin]

Oh boy, I smell the can coming ....

To respond to Joful's original points... I haven't done an analysis quite like that because I inherited the stove with the house, but I did build a simple spreadsheet a couple years ago to compare the cost per BTU between wood and my natgas boiler (accounting for efficiencies and all). I use it to figure out the max Im willing to spend if I have to buy wood so at least the fuel isnt more expensive than gas. Right now that breakeven point for me is about $225/cord (gas is record cheap right now, but OTOH my gas fired steam boiler is not terribly efficient) - over the last 4 years Ive paid for about half my wood and cut/processed about half, my running average cost to date is around $150 a cord.

Now, if I do an honest analysis and include saw, gear, maintenance and parts for the stove, chimney cleanings, and try to value the cost of my time processing... wood is costing me more than gas. But I love the heat and the piece of mind so I don't care.

 

[PapaDave]

Does anybody ever take into account the time , energy, and effort required to pay for the gas, oil, or electricity?
Not just what shows up on the bill. I know the return on time invested is probably better, but it just doesn't seem to be calc'd in most of the time.
Am I missing something?

 

[adrpga498]

Money saved burning, not sure. Friends and time spent here learning about wood burning . PRICELESS. Especially during recent hurricanes.