Not sure what you mean. Bks are not that much more efficient than the other stoves being considered that fuel savings would be much of an issue at all. Yes if you turn a bk way down you will get really long burn times but you also wont get that much heat out of it.
Wood stove purchase help
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Squisher
Minister of Fire
There's plenty of threads debating cat vs non-cat. This doesn't need to be yet another one. I could list the things I dislike about your cat stove but I don't need to. When I bought my stove cost wasn't a consideration in the slightest.
I heated a 2600sqft home for years with my old smokey Lakewood. A huge stove. Capable heater. Hungry. Now I heat that same home entirely if I choose to with my PE summit. No issues, no 'lacking comparable output' to my old stove.
I've heated 24/7 for a 42 year life so far. I also heat a shop most of the winter too with that Lakewood stove still.
To me, you sound lazy.
To each their own.
The OP has stated what he's looking for I wouldn't have probably even commented if it was a cat stove he showed up and desired.
I heated a 2600sqft home for years with my old smokey Lakewood. A huge stove. Capable heater. Hungry. Now I heat that same home entirely if I choose to with my PE summit. No issues, no 'lacking comparable output' to my old stove.
I've heated 24/7 for a 42 year life so far. I also heat a shop most of the winter too with that Lakewood stove still.
To me, you sound lazy.
To each their own.
The OP has stated what he's looking for I wouldn't have probably even commented if it was a cat stove he showed up and desired.
Niko
Minister of Fire
I never mentoined a cat stove at all i just mentoined blaze king. I had no idea what a cat stove was when i was reading but my research kept me curious when i saw the 30-40 hr burn times. I never seen a cat stove, touched, burned or know anybody that has one. Im just saying how long my stove keeps my house warm before i have refil it again. Im not lazy at all. I have wood stove like the rest of you, i split, stack, burn, repeat. i just do a lot less of it.
Op thread says wood stove purchase help, that is what im trying to do.
Ive only been buring for 3-4 years now. Others that have been for decades i applause you. So OP goodluck with your purchase.
Op thread says wood stove purchase help, that is what im trying to do.
Ive only been buring for 3-4 years now. Others that have been for decades i applause you. So OP goodluck with your purchase.
Again, I totally agree with what you Blaze King guys are saying, I was absolutely blown away by what I see at the dealer but I notice you are in NY. Could it be possible that you missed the area where I said I was in Canada? Our dollar sucks! I have a quote here for a Sirocco 20 with pedistal and plain black door for $3274.05 Canadian. If I can get a King for $3200 then surely the Sirocco 20 would be only about $2400 because a King here in Newfoundland is almost $4500. I would be all over a $2400 Sirocco 20 or even step up to a 30 for a little more. However, if you could point me towards a Canadian dealer or retailer that will sell me a Blaze King for those prices, I would be in your debt for sure.
You do realize blaze kings are cat stoves right. And they are fantastic stoves with the ability to burn extremely long and pretty clean at the same time. But they do not save you that much fuel really.
Squisher
Minister of Fire
I have no doubts that I run my stove very efficiently(fantastic wood, multiple thermometers, good chimney) and my heat demand is high to heat my whole home. Slow and low is not what I was looking for or need. If I was to take a load of wood and stretch the btus out over 12 or 24hrs that wouldn't cut it for heating my home.
Another option I weighed was that I plan to have this stove for the rest of my life or until it wears out somehow. In that 30+ year time frame I will buy zero combustors for it, zero gaskets for said cumbostors, zero gaskets for bypass dampers too.
I don't mean to sound pretentious when I said cost was no factor but at the time it wasn't. I had sold a business I had built from the ground up and my reward that I allowed myself was to buy my first new stove and to buy whatever I wanted. I'm happy with my choice and as I said, plan to burn this stove for the rest of mylife. I'll see I suppose if it's up to the task. So far so good.
Everyone (hopefully) is happy with their own stoves for their own reasons. I don't think my stove is the best stove for everyone. Sure I'll recommend it glowingly if asked or it seems appropriate. But if it's not what someone else wants or needs that's fine with me. I'm happy for others who have their stove that they feel is the best for them.
To sort of come back full circle to the OP. I think you are wanting a more inexpensive stove regardless and have been given some good options to look into.
Another option I weighed was that I plan to have this stove for the rest of my life or until it wears out somehow. In that 30+ year time frame I will buy zero combustors for it, zero gaskets for said cumbostors, zero gaskets for bypass dampers too.
I don't mean to sound pretentious when I said cost was no factor but at the time it wasn't. I had sold a business I had built from the ground up and my reward that I allowed myself was to buy my first new stove and to buy whatever I wanted. I'm happy with my choice and as I said, plan to burn this stove for the rest of mylife. I'll see I suppose if it's up to the task. So far so good.
Everyone (hopefully) is happy with their own stoves for their own reasons. I don't think my stove is the best stove for everyone. Sure I'll recommend it glowingly if asked or it seems appropriate. But if it's not what someone else wants or needs that's fine with me. I'm happy for others who have their stove that they feel is the best for them.
To sort of come back full circle to the OP. I think you are wanting a more inexpensive stove regardless and have been given some good options to look into.
Blaze Kings are all catylatic stoves to my knowledge and they are far more expensive than they need to be. They are an amazing stove but near as I can tell, they are only capable of extremely low emissions and low & slow burns but not much gain in BTUs or efficiency. Several non-catylatic wood stoves are more efficient. I've gotten a lot of input and suggestion. I hope no one has gotten hot under the collar and I value ALL your opinions. A piece of wood only contains a certain amount of heat energy and it doesn't matter how slow or fast you burn it. Whether it's 75,000 BTU/hour for 10 hours or 25,000 BTU/hour for 30 hours. I have set a budget in Canadian dollars and I could certainly spend more but can't justify it. I'm going to revisit some home centres and wood stove dealers this week and see if I can get some better prices on some premium brand stoves but ultimately, if they don't fall at or below my budget, it won't be going in the back if the truck.
Unfortunately, I won't know if I made the right choice until this time next year. Why purchase now you might ask? I want to take advantage of the sales, install the whole thing in the summer when I'm not allowed to cut wood, test fire it and then concentrate on the following years wood supply. I also have some reno work to do before I install the stove and chimney.
Unfortunately, I won't know if I made the right choice until this time next year. Why purchase now you might ask? I want to take advantage of the sales, install the whole thing in the summer when I'm not allowed to cut wood, test fire it and then concentrate on the following years wood supply. I also have some reno work to do before I install the stove and chimney.
I've been given some great options! Some I haven't heard of and some that are available to me at several location which gives me some negotiating power. It's testimonials like yours that sell stoves, not specs. As suggested, I've almost given up on the numbers through shear confusion.
If I may bother you for more information, how long of a burn do you get? The Summit is supposed to have the extended burn technology and has a 10 hour rating. How long do you typically get out of it and do you burn soft or hard wood?
BKVP
Minister of Fire
I'm obligated to point out the efficiency numbers you are referencing for the "more efficient" are LHV numbers. Do yourself a favor and ask to have the HHV efficiency numbers. You will find that typically the LHV efficiency is up to 9% greater than HHV numbers. I do not believe there is a non catalyst equipped stove that is more efficient than 90% or more of the catalytic models on the market.
Thank you
BKVP
Squisher
Minister of Fire
I burn softwoods. Fir mostly, as in 80% plus. Some spruce and pine, birch, and larch make up the rest.
I get consistent overnight burns that are down to coals, about eight hrs out of the time the heat varies greatly from intensely hot (600-700stovetop)while settling in a new load to very little heat (under 300) towards the end. 4-6hrs of quite intense heat if I'm wanting it to keep the house toasty. I burn in full load cycles so I load the firebox full heat things right up and then damp it down with the air control to settle in for a decent burn time. I push my stove hard during the day and heat my house up to the point of overheated and then I settle in my nighttime load for a good long burn and coal up time and by morning I have lots of coals and the house has cooled down to reasonable and we're off to the races again. So my heating as a whole is a big daily cycle too.
People will define burn time in all sorts of ways. Some as only the time the stove really puts out useable heat, to those who define it as how long the fire will go while still having enough coals and heat to throw on full size splits and take off again still. So it varies a lot 'burn time'. A lot to do with how long of a burn time you can get besides the design of the unit is your wood obviously, then your setup(chimney), and finally your technique.
I've achieved longer burns over 12hrs with my summit with Norway maple last winter. Coaled up,forever. Useable heat was not much for the last 1/3 of that time though probably.
I get consistent overnight burns that are down to coals, about eight hrs out of the time the heat varies greatly from intensely hot (600-700stovetop)while settling in a new load to very little heat (under 300) towards the end. 4-6hrs of quite intense heat if I'm wanting it to keep the house toasty. I burn in full load cycles so I load the firebox full heat things right up and then damp it down with the air control to settle in for a decent burn time. I push my stove hard during the day and heat my house up to the point of overheated and then I settle in my nighttime load for a good long burn and coal up time and by morning I have lots of coals and the house has cooled down to reasonable and we're off to the races again. So my heating as a whole is a big daily cycle too.
People will define burn time in all sorts of ways. Some as only the time the stove really puts out useable heat, to those who define it as how long the fire will go while still having enough coals and heat to throw on full size splits and take off again still. So it varies a lot 'burn time'. A lot to do with how long of a burn time you can get besides the design of the unit is your wood obviously, then your setup(chimney), and finally your technique.
I've achieved longer burns over 12hrs with my summit with Norway maple last winter. Coaled up,forever. Useable heat was not much for the last 1/3 of that time though probably.
Squisher
Minister of Fire
Well seeing as how you jumped in with that at what sort of btu output is that efficiency you're referencing being measured at?
Squisher
Minister of Fire
To the OP it's easy to get caught up in the hype of it here, as you can see. Lol
Fwiw I think the century you were looking at or drolet recommended earlier by Begreen would be capable heaters.
Fwiw I think the century you were looking at or drolet recommended earlier by Begreen would be capable heaters.
That's why I'm finding the specs so confusing.
So if we are going to have another kick at the cat, the Blaze King Sirocco 20, to which I have a written quote, has a HHV of 77%, a heat output of 28,780 BTU/hour on high and costs $3274 Canadian. A Century FW3000 also has a HHV of 77%, a heat output of 34,400 btu/hour on high and only costs $1000 Canadian (on sale now for $840). Now the Century has a 0.5 cu.ft. larger fire box at 2.4 which accounts for the slightly higher btu output but check out the HHV efficiency numbers, both 77%! Thank you for bringing this to my attention. As far as I'm concerned now, Blaze Kings are selling for approximately 200% - 250% more then what they are worth and require more maintenance to boot.
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Squisher
Minister of Fire
Full disclosure seeing how I've been ranting and rumbling a bit it may seem like I dislike cat stoves or BK's but I don't at all. My decision had come down to not being able to fit a king king on my basement flue as it seemed at the time to be the only unit capable of the output I was looking for. If I could've accomadated a 8" flue on my interior masonry chimney somehow I may well have gone with a king. Could a princess have worked out well for me instead? Probably? Possibly? I was worried I wasn't going to have the oomph I would need.
Kiss simplicity of a stove like my summit vs a cat was something I was weighing back and forth on before that. I get both sides of it.
The decision I made has worked out well for me given my scenario.
Kiss simplicity of a stove like my summit vs a cat was something I was weighing back and forth on before that. I get both sides of it.
The decision I made has worked out well for me given my scenario.
I think you are correct. Providing it's not spewing smoke like a boosted diesel truck, $1000 - $1500 is more than enough cash to secure a good wood stove.
Squisher
Minister of Fire
Heh man. You've come onboard here for a day and while I don't barely know you that's some pretty bold statements about a very well respected maker of high end products. I never meant to imply in my stating a cat wasn't for me that I don't think highly of them and respect the technology greatly. Different people want/need different things out of their stoves.
Squisher
Minister of Fire
Just so you know how stand up a company they are. BKVP isn't just some guys clever username. It's BK's VP. That's how involved they are with their customers and their stoves in general it would seem. That's why I asked him that question on btu output, because he will know.
You can't fairly compare their pricing with a budget type stove.
You can't fairly compare their pricing with a budget type stove.
I meant no disrespect, really. Squisher, I may have only been here for a day or two but I've been walking for 40 years and I don't pay the ice cream guy $10 dollars more to add and extra soup of ice cream to a $5 icecream cone. I'm trying to make a purchase decision based on a budget of no more than $2500 Canadian. I found the LHV and HHV listings to be confusing and inconsistent but BKVP pointed out that HHV is the number I should be using to compare apples to apples. I appreciated that information and upon looking into it further, I noticed that at least the BK Sirocco 20 was no more efficient than the simalarly sized Nepoleon, Drolet or Century models I was considering. I'm sure BK is a very good company, the local dealer praised them for their customer support but why would I spend $2200 more on a stove just because I can turn it down so low the fire lasts twice as long but gives out half the heat while doing so?
As mentioned earlier, I have a newer home and I only want to offset my heating costs on the coldest days & nights but I also want to see the fire. Last I checked, a BK turned way down low for max burn time, was not that appealing to stare at.
I'm really sorry I've struck a cord with some of you here but I believe I have made my decision in regards to BK wood stoves. They are simply out of my budget and not on my radar, there are too many great alternatives out there for significantly less money. When I opted not to purchase a Honda snowblower last year, it was not because I didn't have any respect for Honda as a brand. It was simply because I believed that a Yamaha snowblower could do just as good a job for significantly less investment. The same rules apply to all purchases, even wood stoves.
JA600L
Minister of Fire
I was at home depot today and checked out the Englander NC30. For the most part I was impressed. It is definitely no frills next to my Ideal Steel or Quadra Fire. Both of my stoves are made out of thicker steel. It sits really low and the door latch seems kind of cheap. However, it sure appears like a solid heater.
I would buy one in a heartbeat if I only had a $1000 budget. For a little more than twice that money I got a lot better engineered and built stove with better efficiency.
It's like anything else in life. People don't buy the basic car they need. They spend more and get the one they want. If you are happy with a basic reliable woodstove then get one. If you want more options and higher efficiency spend more money. I'm pretty sure you won't be disappointed either way.
I would buy one in a heartbeat if I only had a $1000 budget. For a little more than twice that money I got a lot better engineered and built stove with better efficiency.
It's like anything else in life. People don't buy the basic car they need. They spend more and get the one they want. If you are happy with a basic reliable woodstove then get one. If you want more options and higher efficiency spend more money. I'm pretty sure you won't be disappointed either way.
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Good thread & discussion. It has been interesting.
Now-----------keep in the forefront of your mind the hearth you need (that Englander requires some kind of "R" value hearth) & the clearances to combustibles on the units you are looking at.
Happy hunting & let us know what you end up with!
As an aside: I will say this about the BK's -- They are one of the few stove builders that use a dealer supply system, yet maintain a very healthy Customer Service relationship at the factory level. If I were currently in the market for a stove, I would have to take a serious look at them. Only the "cultist" mentality of a lot of the owners bothers me -- sometimes, almost, to the point of not even looking at them (the stoves, not the owners).
Now-----------keep in the forefront of your mind the hearth you need (that Englander requires some kind of "R" value hearth) & the clearances to combustibles on the units you are looking at.
Happy hunting & let us know what you end up with!
As an aside: I will say this about the BK's -- They are one of the few stove builders that use a dealer supply system, yet maintain a very healthy Customer Service relationship at the factory level. If I were currently in the market for a stove, I would have to take a serious look at them. Only the "cultist" mentality of a lot of the owners bothers me -- sometimes, almost, to the point of not even looking at them (the stoves, not the owners).
You VILL drink ze koolaid und follow ze lemmings over ze cliff....und you vill LIKE it!
Bear in mind that this is a long-term purchase. What may seem like a lot more money up front will be spread over many years of ownership. Remember the old saw..."The bitter taste of low quality remains, long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten."
BKVP
Minister of Fire
Please reference this Federal EPA list for HHV values.
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2013-08/documents/certifiedwood.pdf
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2013-08/documents/certifiedwood.pdf
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
no we all eat rice pudding and leave packed log cradles at the foot of our beds
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
My best friend had a NC30 in his old house, he listened to me for 3 years brag about my BK (cult bragging) when he bought his new place he didn't even stove shop, he went strait to home depot and got another NC30, he said clearly the stove proved it self to him and that's all he needed, I kinda of agree to his method of thinking, its really a great work horse, heats his 2400 sqft center hall colonial from the living room / kitchen (attached open floor plan) perfectly , actually sometimes to good. As for the door latch on them, no issues with either of his nc30's. Its really a great stove even if your not on a budget. When I got to my next place I'm bringing the princess, but I also need to figure on a second stove, the Englander is on the top 5 stoves to consider.
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