Wood Stove in Basement ???

[Hokerer]

"To answer one of your very first questions, the poly fill foam expanding spray is an excellent choice to fill the foundation sill drafts.

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT!

I had used the "Great Stuff" expanding foam with good success with the only annoyance being the fact that the stuff is hard as you-know-what to clean up. One day in the Big Box, I saw that Dap had a latex foam that cleans up with water so I bought a can.

Well, I never got around to using that latex stuff and 3 or 4 years later I walk into my workshop and see a little dot of foam on the floor. I kinda wonder where it came from until I look over toward the workbench. Evidently being latex based must mean there's water in there because it had rusted out the seam on the can from the inside. Once the rust weakened the can enough - BOOM!! Imagine an entire can of that foam sealant stuff coming out all at once. What a freakin' mess! Six months later, I'm still cleaning that crap up.

Moral is, if you're gonna use the latex foam, use it right away!

D'oh, what a mess :bug:

 

[Homefire]

My plan of action is would be the following:
- get a salamander and test the heat transfer to the living area.
- insulate the perimeter of the house and crawlspace to prevent airleaks, make a moisture barrier and prevent the cold from entering the basement, which should keep the upstairs warmer.
- insulate the basement ceiling (actually the living area subfloor). Should I use fiberglass matts or is there something better/more efficient out there?
- sell 2 stoves I do not use and add some cash and buy an efficient, as-large-as-will-fit-my-masonry-fireplace wood insert.
- kick back and enjoy my improvements.

Think twice about running a salamander in a basement.
You will need to have fresh air and lots of it. The damn thing will stink up your whole neighborhood, well at least your house for weeks.
careful of the CO gas from the salamander.

why not build a masonary heater (broken link removed to http://www.hollowtop.com/cls_html/do-it-yourself/masonry_stoves.htm)

 

[carpniels]

Hi Elk,

Good to see you are back. Good response too. I had my doubts about the insulation guy's response to my efforts of insulating my heating ducts. I have to agree with you. I will continue taping and insulation until all are done.

homefire, I am trying to find out if a stove in the basement works. I am not trying to replace my entire chimney. It looks cool, but is way to expensive and involved. For a future new house, maybe, but not now.

I am definitely getting the sills insulated. Any air infiltration that can be prevented is good.
I will not be able to get away with another vehicle. I am using wood heat to save money, get exercise and not send money to the middle east. A pickup will not help me save money. It will cost me more than I could ever save on wood heat. Moreover, if I had any leftover money, I would buy an ATV to pull my woodcart through the woods. And used those cost easily $2,000 for a used one. The boss would not allow that so I pull the cart by hand.
I am considering getting a hitch on the large wagon so I can pull my boattrailer. That way I can haul wood easily, once I add a platform and stakes to it.
I will probably not get a wood furnace because of the cost and high wood usage. I can however get enough wood for one or two stoves.

ELK, I have a jotul castine. It is a really good stove. My wife wants the Intrepid II back, because she really likes the top loading. to heat the whole house properly, I think I need a bigger capacity stove.

The question is then: Should I A) sell the castine, the Hearthstone II, B)rebuild the Intrepid II and put it in the sunroom as backup and C) use the cash to buy an insert?
OR should I A) sell the castine, hearthstone II and the Intrepid II, B) replace them all with a Quadrafire Isle Royale in the sunroom (the only large size stove that has the clearances to fit my sunroom and has top loading for the wife)??

ELK, I had a hard time understanding your explanation about the R values for the fiberglass. Shouldn't I just get the fiberglass that fits the size of my floor joists (i.e. 2by10s). or is that overkill? I understand that I need to install it with the paper up (towards the living area). Are there any other materials to insulate the basement floor with that work better than fiberglass and cost the same/less? Moreover, the recommendation for my area is R25 for the floor (DOE, energy efficiency recommendations).

<<<<R-Value Recommendations for Existing Buildings
Heating System: Oil Furnace
Cooling System: Electric Air Conditioning
First 3 digits of ZIP code: 134
Location: Utica, NY
Insulation Location R-Value* Notes
Attic 49 -
Wood frame wall cavity 11 Blow insulation into any uninsulated exterior wall cavity.
Floor 25 Over unheated, uninsulated space.
Crawl space wall 19 Crawl space walls are only insulated if the crawl space is unvented and the floor above the crawl space is uninsulated. See the Builder's Foundation Handbook.
Basement wall interior 11 -
Insulative sheathing on empty wall 7 Recommendation assumes that the exterior siding was removed for other purpose, i.e., does not include any consideration of the cost of removing and replacing the exterior siding.
Add insulative sheathing to R11 wall 5

Thanks for all your input.

Carpniels

 

[elkimmeg]

Option d. Defiant with the optional 6" flue collar cat stove Since you stove drafts well an encore or defiant would work, Top loaders
Less mess Almost twice the BTU's of that Intrepid

Consider R values in your basement floor like adding ram memory to your computer
256 to 512 huge boost, 512 to gig preformance gains but One not on the same par as 256 to 512

R11 a huge improvement better that nothing
R 13 tha same huge improvement minium one should consider more gains

R15 even better

R19 probably what you should target

R 25 to 30 Improvements but with dimisihing returns Extra money and not all that much better than R19. ( Iam only making
this statement concerning cellar applications not attics) R30 in the attic is a huge gain over R19

AT this point I think money should be diverted to your attic insulation or ducts and pipes.

You do not have to fill the joist cavity. There is aviation wire with sharp ends that push into place and should hold the insulation in place.

 

[Sandor]

I thought a lot about this thread today.

And my conclusion, based on burning wood in 4 different kinds of stoves, in 6 different houses is this:

The hot air needs somewhere to go, and the cold air needs to find the stove, in a circular fashion. It really boils down to this.

Case in point, today.

I get home, after being gone for several days.

Its 56 in the house. 22 outside. I fire up the stove. Four hours later, the stove room is 80, and the far side of the house is 60.

10 hours later, the far side is 70, stove room is 82.

Thermometer placed at the bottom of the doorway, exiting the stove room is 66, top of the door is 84.

Cold air is RUSHING along the floor toward the stove. The convergent point, is about door-knob height.

My synopsys is: you cannot isolate the stove from the heating envelope without mechanical means, and I'm not talking about fans. Large cathedral ceilings, living areas seperated from the heat source will not work without forced, central ventilation.

 

[Eric Johnson]

I agree with that.^^^^^

 

[Sundeep Arole]

I thought a lot about this thread today.

And my conclusion, based on burning wood in 4 different kinds of stoves, in 6 different houses is this:

The hot air needs somewhere to go, and the cold air needs to find the stove, in a circular fashion. It really boils down to this.

Case in point, today.

I get home, after being gone for several days.

Its 56 in the house. 22 outside. I fire up the stove. Four hours later, the stove room is 80, and the far side of the house is 60.

10 hours later, the far side is 70, stove room is 82.

Thermometer placed at the bottom of the doorway, exiting the stove room is 66, top of the door is 84.

Cold air is RUSHING along the floor toward the stove. The convergent point, is about door-knob height.

My synopsys is: you cannot isolate the stove from the heating envelope without mechanical means, and I'm not talking about fans. Large cathedral ceilings, living areas seperated from the heat source will not work without forced, central ventilation.

I think this is right on the money.
Very recently a friend of mine invited me to join him and a couple of his friends at a cabin he has in NH. The weekend I went up, it was quite cold. The whole place is two rooms, heated with a woodburning stove, a big one, for that.

The night we slept in sleeping bags on the floor. I was right in front of the stove, a few feet from the front of it, but was cold as heck. Woke up and kept reloading the beast all night, to keep it hot, but nothing doing. The stove was hot, but I still was pretty cold. It was the cold draft of air coming right along the floor going to the stove. When I figured out what was going on, I decided instead to turn the stove down, hoping the draft would be cut down. And that then worked.

So I agree with this observation.

 

[Sandor]

Flame, now you know why the old-timers had beds that were like, 4 feet off of the floor.

 

[roac]

I thought a lot about this thread today.

And my conclusion, based on burning wood in 4 different kinds of stoves, in 6 different houses is this:

The hot air needs somewhere to go, and the cold air needs to find the stove, in a circular fashion. It really boils down to this.

Case in point, today.

I get home, after being gone for several days.

Its 56 in the house. 22 outside. I fire up the stove. Four hours later, the stove room is 80, and the far side of the house is 60.

10 hours later, the far side is 70, stove room is 82.

Thermometer placed at the bottom of the doorway, exiting the stove room is 66, top of the door is 84.

Cold air is RUSHING along the floor toward the stove. The convergent point, is about door-knob height.

My synopsys is: you cannot isolate the stove from the heating envelope without mechanical means, and I'm not talking about fans. Large cathedral ceilings, living areas seperated from the heat source will not work without forced, central ventilation.

I think you could get around this though. Most new stoves come outside air capable. Instead of running it outside though you could run it to the 1st floor as a cold air return. Then you would need to cut some vents into the floor and boost it with a duct fan to blow air up through the vent.

 

[Sundeep Arole]

Flame, now you know why the old-timers had beds that were like, 4 feet off of the floor.

Yep, I now know. Likely not in a ice fishing shack, though. There, yu probably slept on the floor, regardless.

 

[Sandor]

I thought a lot about this thread today.

And my conclusion, based on burning wood in 4 different kinds of stoves, in 6 different houses is this:

The hot air needs somewhere to go, and the cold air needs to find the stove, in a circular fashion. It really boils down to this.

Case in point, today.

I get home, after being gone for several days.

Its 56 in the house. 22 outside. I fire up the stove. Four hours later, the stove room is 80, and the far side of the house is 60.

10 hours later, the far side is 70, stove room is 82.

Thermometer placed at the bottom of the doorway, exiting the stove room is 66, top of the door is 84.

Cold air is RUSHING along the floor toward the stove. The convergent point, is about door-knob height.

My synopsys is: you cannot isolate the stove from the heating envelope without mechanical means, and I'm not talking about fans. Large cathedral ceilings, living areas seperated from the heat source will not work without forced, central ventilation.

I think you could get around this though. Most new stoves come outside air capable. Instead of running it outside though you could run it to the 1st floor as a cold air return. Then you would need to cut some vents into the floor and boost it with a duct fan to blow air up through the vent.

The volume of air that the stove consumes is far smaller than the circular airflow in the heating envelope. And where does the fresh air come from?

 

[roac]

Where does your fresh air come from? Most people don't use the outside air capability so air fresh or not is pulled from the room. I think you would be suprised how much air a fire needs.