Wood Insert Burns Unevenly

[SculptureOfSound]

I had the professionals suggest a similar install, hooking a short length of 6" liner to my previously relined chimney (it was relined with a larger rectangular liner for open fireplace use).

The rectangular liner was too big and the draft would have been poor as a consequence. I ended up doing the job myself with a much better full length liner and saved a lot of money compared to what they wanted to charge for a half ass install with inferior components.

Point being is that,like said by others, you cant always trust the "professionals". A lot of them will suggest whatever is cheapest and easiest for themselves both to save on work and get the bid (and increase profit margin) with little or no regard for what is truly best for your situation or heaven forbid being up to code.

Regarding the black glass on one side, that is probably where all the air feeds into an airwash channel and then comes out multiple holes along that channel. That is how it works on my insert at least. If your draft is weak most of the air is likely only coming out the holes nearest the beginning of the air channel, hence why one side stays much more clear.

If this is the case, fixing the chimney setup and increasing your draft should greatly help the issue.

 

[MAD MARK]

If your as rural as you say, you're probably not the only one with a wood burner.

Drive down the road, see smoke out of a roof, stop and talk about install, make a new friend. Or get shot.

"Professionals" worst enemy is the internet. Start asking these questions and based on their reply, or lack there of, you will know if you can trust them or not. They start stammering and asking questions back send on their way.

 

[FPX Dude]

Not to derail the thread, but like me I'm a little bit off the grid, how's your internet connectivity and speed?

 

[MAD MARK]

 

[TBaumunk]

T

I had the professionals suggest a similar install, hooking a short length of 6" liner to my previously relined chimney (it was relined with a larger rectangular liner for open fireplace use).

The rectangular liner was too big and the draft would have been poor as a consequence. I ended up doing the job myself with a much better full length liner and saved a lot of money compared to what they wanted to charge for a half ass install with inferior components.

Point being is that,like said by others, you cant always trust the "professionals". A lot of them will suggest whatever is cheapest and easiest for themselves both to save on work and get the bid (and increase profit margin) with little or no regard for what is truly best for your situation or heaven forbid being up to code.

Regarding the black glass on one side, that is probably where all the air feeds into an airwash channel and then comes out multiple holes along that channel. That is how it works on my insert at least. If your draft is weak most of the air is likely only coming out the holes nearest the beginning of the air channel, hence why one side stays much more clear.

If this is the case, fixing the chimney setup and increasing your draft should greatly help the issue.

That certainly sounds like my problem. I know that my draft is poor and if it's designed the same way that would certainly explain it. I'm not a do it yourself type of guy, but I can insist that someone does it right. I feel like if I simply get the liner to the top it will make a pretty decent difference. If I have to have my chimney extended as well I could do that. Short of demolishing the dang thing and starting over, I'm not sure there's much else that I can do. Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

[TBaumunk]

Ha

Not to derail the thread, but like me I'm a little bit off the grid, how's your internet connectivity and speed?

Haha, not good. I've been forced to use satellite internet through HughesNet. Speed isn't great but it is better than Frontier which is the only other provider in my area.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

T


That certainly sounds like my problem. I know that my draft is poor and if it's designed the same way that would certainly explain it. I'm not a do it yourself type of guy, but I can insist that someone does it right. I feel like if I simply get the liner to the top it will make a pretty decent difference. If I have to have my chimney extended as well I could do that. Short of demolishing the dang thing and starting over, I'm not sure there's much else that I can do. Thank you for sharing your experience.

I think just getting the liner to the top should fix your problems. If insurance company was good with current install I can't see them having a problem with an improvement.

Let us know how things go. Hopefully you can find someone competent (I wouldn't want to do a tall chimney like yours myself either...my low pitch roof ranch was enough work as is!)

 

[TBaumunk]

I

If your as rural as you say, you're probably not the only one with a wood burner.

Drive down the road, see smoke out of a roof, stop and talk about install, make a new friend. Or get shot.

"Professionals" worst enemy is the internet. Start asking these questions and based on their reply, or lack there of, you will know if you can trust them or not. They start stammering and asking questions back send on their way.

I can try that, but I could actually get shot. I think the one neighbor about 1/4 mile away cooks meth.lol But realistically I'm sure there are a few people. Not many would have inserts though. Most people I see out here use the big outdoor wood burners. My area is sort of poor so not many fireplaces like mine being put into homes and the nicer ones seem to be going with gas these days.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

You said the chimney is narrow, do you know the inner dimensions of the flue tiles? If rectangular you might be able to go with an oval liner. I had to use oval for my install..I went with duravent rigid oval which is pre insulated double wall liner and measures something like 4.75 by 7.5 inches. So if you have a rectangular flue and it's a straight shot that would be an option. Its got a smooth interior and so drafts better than corrugated liner, although the oval shape reduces draft a bit. I've only got 15' of pipe though and i have really great draft (almost too much, not sure why? Maybe because with the extra 4' extension it's about 6' taller than the peak of the house?)


One other bonus is that it is really easy to extend your chimney height with this system if needed and if you're ok with seeing the liner above the chimney. You can get about 4 extra feet with no bracing or anything required.

 

[TBaumunk]

I think just getting the liner to the top should fix your problems. If insurance company was good with current install I can't see them having a problem with an improvement.

Let us know how things go. Hopefully you can find someone competent (I wouldn't want to do a tall chimney like yours myself either...my low pitch roof ranch was enough work as is!)

Yes I'm hoping that solves my problem. From what I can gather after consulting the manual on my insert itself, it was installed to code with just this stupid 9" liner section but it's definitely not optimal. It's just enough for the installation company to be able to wash their hands of it. I'm just going to have a duffediff company come do it right regardless of price and hopefully then I'll finally have a safe and well functioning insert. Thanks again for your help. I'll post an update once I have the new company come take a look next week.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

Sadly the duravent oval liner would have NEVER been suggested by the locl dealer since they don't sell that brand of liner. It is the only insulated liner that would have fit for me without breaking out the tiles.

 

[TBaumunk]

You said the chimney is narrow, do you know the inner dimensions of the flue tiles? If rectangular you might be able to go with an oval liner. I had to use oval for my install..I went with duravent rigid oval which is pre insulated double wall liner and measures something like 4.75 by 7.5 inches. So if you have a rectangular flue and it's a straight shot that would be an option. Its got a smooth interior and so drafts better than corrugated liner, although the oval shape reduces draft a bit. I've only got 15' of pipe though and i have really great draft (almost too much, not sure why? Maybe because with the extra 4' extension it's about 6' taller than the peak of the house?)


One other bonus is that it is really easy to extend your chimney height with this system if needed and if you're ok with seeing the liner above the chimney. You can get about 4 extra feet with no bracing or anything required.

Yes it is rectangular actually. That's a great suggestion. I'll check into that. Since my chimney is a bit short that extension would probably help me tremendously as well. Hopefully that set up will work for me. I'm anxious to get a different person in here to have a fresh perspective. Thanks for suggesting that. I can at least understand this idea and feel confident checking up on it. I appreciate everyone else's input, but some seem to be much more knowledgeable than me and seem to be suggesting things that I can either not do anything about at this point or would have me asking questions that I wouldn't know if they were lying to me or not.

 

[jatoxico]

Nice shots of the cabin. I really like them.

Glad you got some more eyes on this and are hopefully headed towards a solution. Take in the comments and read up so you can talk to whoever you decide to use and get it done right.

If you have to add a couple feet above the existing masonry to meet minimum height requirement do it. You certainly don't want a poorly performing creosote factory. True for everyone but maybe even more so in a very rural home where you may really need to rely on the stove in the event of an extended power outage.

When installed correctly and with good fuel (dry wood) many here get only a few cups of ash when the chimney is swept at the end of the season. Done wrong, you can have a dangerously fouled system in a surprisingly short period of time.

 

[TBaumunk]

Ok, just wanted to post an update. I had a professional come take a look and it seems that there a few issues with the chimney. Fortunately all of which can be fixed fairly easily. First of all, the way that it's installed currently is up to code, but barely according to him. The chimney flue is also not straight. There's actually a decent curve in it where the other side comes up from the basement, which I'm guessing is most of the reason it won't burn well on that side. He told me that since the chimney is too narrow for a proper liner he is going to knock all of the tiles out of it and install a proper insulated 6" liner all the way to the top and extend the chimney about 3 feet. Hopefully this solves all of my problems. Two positive things I found out are that there was very little creosote in the chimney and he can make these repairs for what I consider a reasonable price. Thanks to everyone for all of their input.

 

[jatoxico]

You're not going to regret the effort and $ you're making to get this right. It would be great if you could report back and close this thread out. Too many times there's no follow up so future readers can't fully benefit.

 

[TBaumunk]

I

You're not going to regret the effort and $ you're making to get this right. It would be great if you could report back and close this thread out. Too many times there's no follow up so future readers can't fully benefit.

I'd be happy to follow up. We are in for a big snowstorm this weekend, but with some luck I should be able to have the repairs made in 2-3 weeks.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

Glad to hear things may be fixed soon! I know how frustrating it can be...we bought our house almost 4 years ago and first had to get the chimney relined. We relined it for open fireplace use as that's what I thought I wanted (I also wasn't aware that there were any decent looking inserts available, my sweep only showed me the most basic/ugly ones as an option, probably because that's all he sold).

Got it relined and then had our first fire. You couldn't smell it much while it was burning but the house stunk of smoke for three days. Tried a few more fires and same result every time. Turns out the liner he put in was way too small for the fireplace opening, so it was pulling more air into the fire than it could exhaust, hence smoke in house.

So that was year one. Year two I researched inserts but couldn't decide between the traditional tube stove or the brand new at the time Ashford 25 insert by blaze king, with it's magical catalytic powers. I wasn't sure if I'd end.up being a 24/7 burner or not... fireplace is in the far end of a long ranch and I figured there would be heat distribution problems. So I just couldn't decide and didn't want to drop $5.5k and make the wrong choice.

So that was year two. Still no working fireplace.

Year 3 I decided I'd buy a cheap tube insert on craigslist and try it out and see, then I could at least figure out what I liked, how much I liked burning and could make a much more educated choice before dropping the big money.

As luck would have it after months of searching, dealing with flakey people and having deals fall through the *exact* insert I wanted (VC Montpelier, although I was heavily considering the voyageur grand as well) showed up on FB marketplace for only $200!

Ended up doing the install myself with all rigid liner for 1/2 the cost they would have charged me for an inferior liner. With insert and liner the total came to just over a grand and I have to say I love it! It is 8 degrees outside and a cozy 77 in the insert room.
Only took 3.5 years to get a working fireplace in here but it was all worth it

Anyhow, I'm sure your story will have a happy ending too and can't wait to hear it!

 

[TBaumunk]

Glad to hear things may be fixed soon! I know how frustrating it can be...we bought our house almost 4 years ago and first had to get the chimney relined. We relined it for open fireplace use as that's what I thought I wanted (I also wasn't aware that there were any decent looking inserts available, my sweep only showed me the most basic/ugly ones as an option, probably because that's all he sold).

Got it relined and then had our first fire. You couldn't smell it much while it was burning but the house stunk of smoke for three days. Tried a few more fires and same result every time. Turns out the liner he put in was way too small for the fireplace opening, so it was pulling more air into the fire than it could exhaust, hence smoke in house.

So that was year one. Year two I researched inserts but couldn't decide between the traditional tube stove or the brand new at the time Ashford 25 insert by blaze king, with it's magical catalytic powers. I wasn't sure if I'd end.up being a 24/7 burner or not... fireplace is in the far end of a long ranch and I figured there would be heat distribution problems. So I just couldn't decide and didn't want to drop $5.5k and make the wrong choice.

So that was year two. Still no working fireplace.

Year 3 I decided I'd buy a cheap tube insert on craigslist and try it out and see, then I could at least figure out what I liked, how much I liked burning and could make a much more educated choice before dropping the big money.

As luck would have it after months of searching, dealing with flakey people and having deals fall through the *exact* insert I wanted (VC Montpelier, although I was heavily considering the voyageur grand as well) showed up on FB marketplace for only $200!

Ended up doing the install myself with all rigid liner for 1/2 the cost they would have charged me for an inferior liner. With insert and liner the total came to just over a grand and I have to say I love it! It is 8 degrees outside and a cozy 77 in the insert room.
Only took 3.5 years to get a working fireplace in here but it was all worth it

Anyhow, I'm sure your story will have a happy ending too and can't wait to hear it!

Wow, I wish I was that patient. I have a bad habit of wanting things done yesterday and sometimes my impatience costs me. It sounds like you made out a lot better than me in the bank account department. Fortunately, I have faith that shortly all of my problems will be solved, but it's going to cost me about 3 times as much to get it that way. I'll have my results about 5 times quicker, but I'm not convinced that paying 3 times as much is very efficient.haha. Thanks for your help and your perspective. Hopefully I'll be posting about how much better mine works within a month.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

Wow, I wish I was that patient. I have a bad habit of wanting things done yesterday and sometimes my impatience costs me. It sounds like you made out a lot better than me in the bank account department. Fortunately, I have faith that shortly all of my problems will be solved, but it's going to cost me about 3 times as much to get it that way. I'll have my results about 5 times quicker, but I'm not convinced that paying 3 times as much is very efficient.haha. Thanks for your help and your perspective. Hopefully I'll be posting about how much better mine works within a month.

We had just had our son and I already felt guilty considering the insert as we live in town and natural gas is so cheap and our monthly bills are low. I had figured it would take me almost 10 years to break even and that's if I got free wood (and not accounting for the added cost of a chainsaw and all the other tools and toys). I don't have a source for free wood so that would have been scrounging and the like. Figured I'd probably have to buy it, and per btu it was more expensive than gas at the time.

Oh yeah, I was also worried that our short 13 foot chimney would have draft problems and I'd have the same problem of a smoke filled house again. So that worry, plus the guilt of such an expensive "fun" purchase led to that wicked indecision.

So glad for this forum though. I didn't know a damn thing about fireplaces or inserts a few years ago...now ive installed my own! Heck, after recently talking all about stoves, inserts, installs, burning practices and the like with the local stove shop manager he said to me, "if you ever want to leave your job you can come work here, you know more than most of the guys" lol

 

[TBaumunk]

Ok, so I finally got someone out to my house to do the chimney work. The weather has caused delay after delay, but it's finally done and what a difference! I had them install an insulated hybrid liner after knocking out the tiles to make room for it. It draws so much better, burns hotter and more evenly with almost no build up on the glass. Someone had mentioned that my chimney was too short which does not seem to be a problem. I don't think I'd want it to draw anymore than it already does. It is 3ft from the roofline which is code so I'm happy. One thing that really confirmed the difference was that the paint actually finished curing with my first fire. Obviously my previous set up wasn't even getting hot enough to finish that process. Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

Always great to hear of a happy ending! Thanks for updating us

 

[begreen]

Draft is the engine of the stove. Good to hear that you are back on track. Enjoy that good looking stove.