Woke up this morning and my entire house smelled of smoke...

[PelletGirl]

Thanks for all your input. We have determined the cause of the smoke and it was NOT the soffit (although we will be extending the termination vent anyway - I told my husband I want to add two feet to it.) Yes, the window is open - we opened about ten windows throughout the house to vent it but it is not usually open. There are no electrical wires near the vent - they are stakes/caging for planting vegetables in the summer. The cap is not made with the thimble - there is some pipe there but not enough in my opinion. CapeMayDan, I think you are right about the vent and we will fix that when we extend it. The "pro" who installed it installed black pipe inside the house and silver outside and I think he transitioned right at the wall. My husband said it didn't seem right but the pro said it was fine. There is a 90 elbow on the inside of the wall and we will get a straight shot of vent from there to a foot or two past the edge of the soffit. By the way, is there any reason we can't use the black vent pipe outside? Do we need to switch over to silver?

So, what caused the smoke? It seems to be just bad timing. Since we turned the stove off due to the smoke, we cleaned it when it cooled off. There were many unburned and partially burned pellets in the pan. It appears as if we had a little blip with the power just when the stove was starting up (when there is smoke inside) and it caused the stove to dump the partially burned pellets, turn off and reset. We did not have an error code but we believe the smoke exited the pan, etc. It happened once before when we had the same issue. We do have the battery back-up but it didn't have time to kick in before the power resumed (it was that quick) and the fire wasn't already going, just starting. We are still definitely fixing that vent termination (or the shop will - not the "pro" though - he's never coming back here).

You are all so informative and I have learned so much just from this post. I think with all your input we will get this done right. The stove has been working fine it's just the "professional installation" that's had issues. Thank you all

 

[bogieb]

If the joint between the 45 and the horizontal pipe is in the wall, that is a no-no (even if it is sealed). And, I am of the same opinion as several others here - it should be extended more horizontally.

 

[gfreek]

By the way, is there any reason we can't use the black vent pipe outside? Do we need to switch over to silver?

No. Just be sure you use same brand/model pipe..

 

[PelletGirl]

Thank you. We will probably just continue with the black then. And I do not believe there is any joint in the wall, but they are close. I want one piece of pipe from the 90 to the cap so there won't be any issues.

 

[kappel15]

What I find strange is that the stove shut down, and no codes.

 

[PelletGirl]

Kap, I think it shut down because the power was interrupted, however brief, and it was during the startup cycle so it dumped everything and restarted. We haven't had an issue with it, and a couple other appliances were also affected. Coupled with the large amount of partially burned pellets in the tray, it seems like that was the issue. The negative draft hadn't started yet when it happened which is why we got some smoke. Still have to extend the vent pipe and now change it to 4" to because it will put us over the max for length of pipe. Can't wait until this is all worked out.

 

[gfreek]

PelletGirl, what do you have for battery backup?

 

[MSmith66]

A little amazed it was installed that way. The termination cap should not be that close to the house. With the end so close to the OAK, you may be pulling exhaust in too. Need to extend it at the very least...

X2

 

[kappel15]

X2

X3

 

[PelletGirl]

We have the cable from Quadrafire hooked up to a car battery I believe - my husband did it. We tested it out and it worked fine.

 

[kappel15]

If it dumped and restarted(still calling for heat)(not just reset to ready) exhaust fan should have been running all along. Got me confused. Well, I have never experimented with that scenario, so maybe stove between ready and startup sequence let some smoke escape. It can take a few seconds sometimes for it to jump to start-up.Hope you get to enjoying your stove the right way soon. kap

 

[PelletGirl]

Thanks Kap. It seems like it was on start-up when the issue occurred, and it dumped smoldering pellets then reset to ready and started again. That is our best guess as the stove was running when we woke up but the smoke smell was all over the house (except, oddly enough) the room with the vent pipes). I think we have to change to 4" pipe (which I thought we needed in the first place) because the length will be over the minimum. Just really fed up with this right now - we think we've got it correct and its not. Not sure what, if anything, the stove shop will do.

 

[DMKNLD]

Still have to extend the vent pipe and now change it to 4" to because it will put us over the max for length of pipe.

We are still definitely fixing that vent termination (or the shop will - not the "pro" though - he's never coming back here).

Hey PG,

You have been through pellet stove installation Hell. Or perhaps Purgatory is the more appropriate metaphorical term, given the trouble you're still having to endure as a result of the 'sins' of your installer. Will the dealer make good on swapping your 3" vent to 4"? I know the 3" vs 4" venting was a legitimate concern you raised early on when you were having vent leak and stove performance issues.

As I recall, the (sarcasm alert) dealers *pro installer* assured you that 3" venting would be OK, and that sealing the vent with Rutland stove gasket cement was OK, and that spilling cement on to your shiny new porcelain stove was OK, and that not installing an OAK was OK, and that terminating a vent <12" from your house was OK, and that..... You get the point. He has been given more than ample opportunity to do it right, or 'make it right' after the fact, and has, by all accounts failed in every opportunity to do so.

Service issues and install mistakes happen in the retail stove business - I get that. And I'm all for giving a business proprietor the opportunity to 'make it right' to the agreeable satisfaction of both parties. Because a customer isn't always right, but they are at least owed the duty and opportunity to 'make it right'. I believe you have more than met them 1/2 way in that proprietor - consumer relationship throughout your pellet stove purchase 'odyssey'.

I also believe it's beyond time you call the installer out via a BBB complaint, Angie's List review, and / or identify him publicly on this widely read forum, so that other fellow NY'ers looking for a pellet stove installer don't have to endure the same 'pellet stove purchase purgatory' that you have had to. What once was resolved to being 'the power of the pen' now has much more influence with the power of social media's ability to make businesses more accountable and responsible to a culture of good customer service and product satisfaction.

That said, the internet is flush with disgruntled trolls and 'keyboard cowboys' who are quick to flame a business establishment for a retail or service transaction that didn't live up to their standard, before they even give the business owner the opportunity to address their complaint. But you, from all accounts, have shown far more patience and acceptance of time delays, service run-arounds, and installational incompetence than any pellet stove owner paying good money for a professional installation should have to bear.

Your dealer definitely should not get a pass either, as the trail of incompetence 'crumbs' leads back to him as well. If he doesn't make it right and swap your venting, and make it leak free, and your stove problem free, to what should have been done right the first time, then I would call him out publicly as well and send a polite but pointed note to Quad corporate detailing the issues you've had with their licensed dealer, whose business practices call into question Quadrafire's commitment to customer service support and product satisfaction.

Just my .02, FWIIW. End of my populist rant.

 

[Ambient]

Thank you. We will probably just continue with the black then. And I do not believe there is any joint in the wall, but they are close. I want one piece of pipe from the 90 to the cap so there won't be any issues.

For your consideration: simply extending the pipe out several feet into the fall line of the upper roof could lead to another issue. The pic's suggest that you exited the vent on a bearing wall. If you were to have a significant snow fall accumulation and it came down off the roof all at once, some folks have lost their vent pipes (one of the posting members did just a few weeks ago) and created smoke in the house issues combined with vent pipe replacement. A vertical run might be the safest with a termination just a foot out from the upper framing, or consider putting some snow stays on the roof.

I'm not sure if the dealer recommended this installer "pro", however informing the dealer and the public may save some folks some troubles down the road.

 

[PelletGirl]

Thank you all for the information and opinions - all are appreciated. I am waiting to hear back from the store to see how they are willing to resolve this. The roof above the vent pipe is actually only about one to two feet wide so not much snow accumulates there. We were probably going to support the vent pipe from below as well.

 

[PelletGirl]

So I spoke with the store... they are replacing all the vent pipe with 4" pipe and they are extending it past the cantilever and putting a better cap on the end (supposed to send the smoke further away). All at no cost to me. I also expressed concern about a connection in the wall and he said that is absolutely unacceptable and it will be corrected with the new pipe. Let's hope this solves the issue.

 

[bogieb]

Glad the store owner is taking your concerns seriously and hope when it is redone correctly, it will solve your issues.

 

[Tonyray]

So I spoke with the store... they are replacing all the vent pipe with 4" pipe and they are extending it past the cantilever and putting a better cap on the end (supposed to send the smoke further away). All at no cost to me. I also expressed concern about a connection in the wall and he said that is absolutely unacceptable and it will be corrected with the new pipe. Let's hope this solves the issue.

should have been done right the 1st time but better late than never..
glad to hear that it will corrected and at no charge.

 

[Ambient]

So I spoke with the store... they are replacing all the vent pipe with 4" pipe and they are extending it past the cantilever and putting a better cap on the end (supposed to send the smoke further away). All at no cost to me. I also expressed concern about a connection in the wall and he said that is absolutely unacceptable and it will be corrected with the new pipe. Let's hope this solves the issue.

To me a business that stands behind it's products and it's people is a valuable commodity within each community. This "pro" may have only been a blip on the radar for this dealer. In other words, he recently started, but then failed, and is gone. The owner needs a chance to fix the problem, if he does, and it seems he will, I would feel comfortable at least letting others know that he stands behind his products and their installation. Personnel issues are part of the business owners troubles, they shouldn't be yours. Good luck I hope this all works out for you!

 

[DMKNLD]

Personnel issues are part of the business owners troubles, they shouldn't be yours.

I concur Ambient, but a significant issue in PelletGirls issues was that the dealer she bought the stove from doesn't do the installs, and instead sub-contracted that out to the *pro*, who billed PG for the installation separate from the stove purchase fee she paid to the dealer, as I understand it. So as a result of that business arrangement, the business owners personnel issues did become PG's issues..

That seems, IMO, to be a set-up for the stove owner getting stuck in the middle of who is accountable for what, especially when there are *problems* with the installation. If I was going to buy a new stove from a stove dealer, and pay to have it professionally installed, but the dealer either didn't have enough Quad stove sales to support putting a knowledgeable and competent certified Quad tech on his payroll to install his product, or for whatever reason the dealer wouldn't do the installs, I personally wouldn't buy a stove from that dealer.

All that said, it sounds like PG's dealer has chosen to 'make it right', so I certainly give him credit for standing behind his product. I appreciate that not all Quad stove techs have 'kappel' quality knowledge, excellence and attention to detail, (an homage to kap, who is the Quad tech 'go to guy' for all things Quad related on this forum) . But hopefully her dealer learned an important (and likely expensive) business lesson in this as well, that he is still accountable for who he sub-contracts his installs out to, and that, at the end of the day, he ultimately answers to customer satisfaction.

Looking at PG's forum posting history, her first thread looking for advice on her pending install was on Oct 25th of last year, and here she is now 5 months later still trying to get her stove running safely and correctly, despite being an informed and knowledgeable consumer. Good on her for being sharp enough to find this forum and seek out some 3rd party advice, independent of her *pro's* perhaps well intention-ed, but clearly miss-directed advice and counsel. And I applaud PG for holding her dealer 'to the fire' on his customer service commitments.

 

[Ambient]

I concur Ambient, but a significant issue in PelletGirls issues was that the dealer she bought the stove from doesn't do the installs, and instead sub-contracted that out to the *pro*, who billed the stove owner for the installation separate from the stove purchase fee paid to the dealer, as I understand it. So as a result of that business arrangement, the business owners personnel issues did become PG's issues..

That seems, IMO, to just be a set-up for the stove owner getting stuck in the middle of who is accountable for what, especially when there are *problems* with the installation. If I was going to buy a new stove from a stove dealer, and pay to have it professionally installed, but the dealer either didn't have enough Quad stove sales to support putting a knowledgeable and competent certified Quad tech on his payroll to install his product, or for whatever reason the dealer wouldn't do the installs, I personally wouldn't buy a stove from that dealer.

All that said, it sounds like PG's dealer has chosen to 'make it right', so I certainly give him credit for standing behind his product. I appreciate that not all Quad stove techs have 'kappel' quality knowledge, excellence and attention to detail. (an homage to kap, who is the Quad tech 'go to guy' for all things Quad related on this forum). But hopefully her dealer learned an important (and likely expensive) business lesson in this as well, that he is still accountable for who he sub-contracts his installs out to, and that, at the end of the day, he ultimately answers to customer satisfaction.

Looking at PG's forum posting history, her first thread looking for advice on her pending install was on Oct 25th of last year, and here she is now 5 months later still trying get her stove running safely and correctly, despite being an informed and knowledgeable consumer. Good on her for being sharp enough to find this forum and seek out some 3rd party advice, independent of her *pro's* perhaps well intention-ed, but clearly miss-directed advice and counsel. And I applaud PG for holding her dealer 'to the fire' on his customer service commitments.

I read this thread repeatedly before posting my last, I couldn't for the life of me find where so many assumptions were made. I in turn, assumed there were some PM's being made in the background, I should've just sat back until I had a real sense of how things work here before jumping in. I wouldn't want to throw any ole comment around unless I spoke from my knowledge base, which I wasn't pellet stoves, but was business in the Tri State area. Had I been privy to the whole story I would have offered a slightly different take. Clearly PG is in good hands I'll sit back and be a better newbie, please remind me if I don't. btw, The owner subcontracted the "pro" means he hired him, it's his issue also. IMHO

Good Luck PG!

 

[DMKNLD]

It's all good, Ambient, which is why we are all here on this fine forum, to learn and share collective knowledge and experience. Go to the search function link at the top right of the page and type "PelletGirl" into the "Posted by Member" section drop-down and you will find the dozen or so prior threads since Oct on PG's Quad install *odyssey*.

She has undeservedly been a pellet forum 'poster child' for how a new install shouldn't go. But hers is certainly not the only forum horror story of install nightmares. This burning season we seem to be hearing about more install problem issues than in past seasons. Likely as a result of the boom in both new and used pellet stove sales, as well as the shortage of stove techs (or at least competent ones) to work on them.

Just like we rarely if ever get posts when folks check in to say their stove is running just fine, but they invariably do when they are having problems, which is certainly what the purpose of a self-help forum like this is all about. Likewise, we don't often hear of the dealer installs that go smoothly and uneventfully. But PG's install issues have been particularly egregious, pretty much from day 1.

I don't believe any business owner or service provider gets up in the morning with the stated intention to provide crappy customer service to their clients that day. But clearly some business owners have it better figured out than others on what good customer service really entails, and what the consequences of bad customer satisfaction can do in this age of social media driven feedback and review.

Happy burning !