Wiring a new outlet (new to old style)

[seige101]

Mostly accurate statement, however the receptacle must be the self grounding type

Mostly accurate? The guy DID say he is using a new 15 amp grounded duplex. To my knowledge, they are all self-grounding and have been for many years.

Different states use different versions of electrical code. New codes are not law, just suggestions until taken on by any particular government entity. In my state of NY, code states cleary exactly what I stated here - when installing a grounded three-prong outlet. Code also allows the installation of a new two-prong non-grounded outlet in "old work" but not in new construction.

The self grounding ones have that extra brass tab or 2 wires where the screw attaches through the yoke. (refer to pic link in my above post) Most outlets especially in residential are not that type. Thats only why i was pointing out the difference.

Had the pleasure of doing electrical work in NY state several times. Whole different animal out there. You hire a private inspecting company instead of a town or city inspector. Licensing was very different if i am remembering correctly also.

John thanks! I was going to try and describe it but i found that pic instead. Much easier to understand with the visual.

Ugly, i have always prefered to make the hook around the screw terminals my self. Never did trust the stab in style. The exception i make is the kind there you loosen the screw, stick the wire in and then tighten.

You do need 2 20 amps circuits in the kitchen though.

Had the exact opposite problem with bonding the gas main in a commercial building once. We did it, the inspector saw it and compliment is for following the new code change, but then said to remove it because the gas inspector would not pass it!

Ac cable known as bx, greenfield or FMC or flex, and Mc cable. Gets confusing sometimes!

Good so see some other electricians on the board.

 

[RJP Electric]

The legend of where the letters BX comes from - is still unclear as far as I know. I studied electric theory and history in the 60s, and at that time many people who were experts in the field, claimed "BX" stood for Bronx, NY because that's were General Electric Co. manufactured it. BX was a registered trademark of General Electric Spraque Division.

I've also heard a few versions of the BX origin you mentioned, but never seen any proof of it.

This is the Underwriters Laboratory newsletter 2/07. Good history lessons too! Thanks

(broken link removed to http://www.ul.com/tca/ec/february07.pdf)

 

[jdemaris]

This is the Underwriters Laboratory newsletter 2/07. Good history lessons too! Thanks

Could be 100% accurate, and then again, may not be. I learned a long time ago to be skeptical of anything decribing historical events that lacks primary-source citations.

I'd like to see where the informatoin actually came from in regard to the evolution of the letters BX.

I sent the author an email and requested his sources. Who knows?

I heard similar discussions over the name for NM cable often referred to as "Romex." That, for sure, was named for the place it was first manufactured by General Cable in Rome, New York.

 

[jdemaris]

Had the pleasure of doing electrical work in NY state several times. Whole different animal out there. You hire a private inspecting company instead of a town or city inspector. Licensing was very different if i am remembering correctly also.

In most of New York state, no electrician's license is required. All work must pass inspection, however. Certain cities require their own license and some have their own special code, e.g. New York City.

My former business partner moved here (Otsego County NY) from Massachusetts where he had a Master Electrician's license. Also had a BS in electrical engineering. He agreed to take on a small residential service job in the nearby city of Oneonta (a small college town). I suspect most people would not regard it as real city, but in this rural area it seems crowded to me. To his surprise, he was not allowed. Must have a Oneonta City license or NG.

 

[seige101]

Had the pleasure of doing electrical work in NY state several times. Whole different animal out there. You hire a private inspecting company instead of a town or city inspector. Licensing was very different if i am remembering correctly also.

In most of New York state, no electrician's license is required. All work must pass inspection, however. Certain cities require their own license and some have their own special code, e.g. New York City.

My former business partner moved here (Otsego County NY) from Massachusetts where he had a Master Electrician's license. Also had a BS in electrical engineering. He agreed to take on a small residential service job in the nearby city of Oneonta (a small college town). I suspect most people would not regard it as real city, but in this rural area it seems crowded to me. To his surprise, he was not allowed. Must have a Oneonta City license or NG.

Thats what it was. Did a bunch of work on the outskirts of utica and Saugerties years ago. No license required, so at the time when i was an apprentice in ma, i could run jobs out in NY.

 

[John_M]

Hey, all you electricians, do any of you have a digital camera so you can take a photo of how you wrap the ground wire about 3/4 way around the ground screw on a metal box before you attach it to the receptacle?

I just tried to explain it and my thousand words still did not clarify that step. A simple photo would help immeasurably.

I also do not like "push-in" connectors because I can sometimes pull them apart. Those that allow you to push straight in, then tighten the ribbed connector onto the wire are pretty good (I cannot pull them apart), but I still wrap the wire around the ground screw. There is no way I can pull apart that connection without breaking the receptacle. I just feel more secure with that kind of mechanical connection.

Best wishes.

 

[RJP Electric]

This is basically how it's done. Some guys will splice the 2 romex grounds with 2 tails, one to the device one to the box and use a standard wire nut. Both are acceptable. If you are using boxes with a clamps, do not use that same screw that is used to tighten the clamps onto the romex or do not use the wood screws that fasten the box to the wall either. Code requires you to use the 10-24 machine screw, grounding clip or other approved means, sorry no sheet rock or sheet metal screws.

 

[John_M]

Thanks, RJP, now one can see where the ground coming out of the romex on the left wraps about 3/4 around the ground screw and is then joined with the ground from the romex on the right with a "pass through" wire nut. In two minutes your photo did what I was unable to do in 30 minutes of typing.

I also like your description of how some guys will use 6" - 8" "pigtails" or "jumpers" attached separately to the ground screw and receptacle and then join all together with the wire nut.

John_M

 

[johnn]

Lot of info. about code`s, inspector`s, and inventor`s...but for me the AMP`S being pulled through a line, is tops. With today`s

power strip`s and as an example all the thing`s plugged into it for an entertainment system.....Then mama comes along and decides to vacumne, which can often be rated for 20 amp`s you are over-loading a 15-amp breaker and the #14 guage. I only use 15-amp and #14 for switches and lighting. I do have a rental which has push-matic...where do you find those?

 

[doghouse]

Lot of info. about code`s, inspector`s, and inventor`s...but for me the AMP`S being pulled through a line, is tops. With today`s

power strip`s and as an example all the thing`s plugged into it for an entertainment system.....Then mama comes along and decides to vacumne, which can often be rated for 20 amp`s you are over-loading a 15-amp breaker and the #14 guage. I only use 15-amp and #14 for switches and lighting. I do have a rental which has push-matic...where do you find those?

"Push-matic" as in two button on-off switches? If this is what you are talking about, check the back pages of 'this old house ' magazine. Several venders sell 'period' decor items including two button on-off switches. Some can cost as much as $25. Pricy!

 

[Ugly]

I think he means mini breakers that go in to replace a fuse , they look like a fuse but are circuit breakers. Every time a fuse blows at the rental, I put in one of those since it's most likely to get overloaded again. Acquired at my local hardware store... expensive critters.

 

[doghouse]

I hear ya. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[johnn]

Thank`s guys, but these look like anormal breaker, but without the switch you throw back and forth. Instead you actually push in on the breaker and it engages to pass power. When it blows... it pops back out and will stick out a little past the other breakers, and if I remember right throws a little red flag in a small window. have had only one problem with a short I found but really should have a spare or two. I have only checked at Lowes,,home depot,, and Ace..no luck...I`m sure calling around I could find a supplier,,,just thought someone might be familiar with a supplier. I`ll do my homework. The house was built in an erea they used to call "Shell Camp", which housed employees of the refinery.

 

[Tarmsolo60]

Pushmatics are a real dinosaur, but a quick google search has many places online to order.

 

[RJP Electric]

I posted a reply thread this morning, I don't know what happened to the post. Weird?

The ITE bulldog push-matics are still available brand new, Any electrical supply house that stocks ITE/Siemens will carry them. If you need some PM me I have a bunch of pre installed ones that I have removed from service upgrades that I will be happy to donate to the cause.

 

[johnn]

I posted a reply thread this morning, I don't know what happened to the post. Weird?

The ITE bulldog push-matics are still available brand new, Any electrical supply house that stocks ITE/Siemens will carry them. If you need some PM me I have a bunch of pre installed ones that I have removed from service upgrades that I will be happy to donate to the cause.

Very generous of you. However ,,Houston we have a problem,,, I am much better suited to growing a callous, than navigating a computer. My son-in-law was a big GAMER so he built this for me installing Windows XP Professional, I finally got tired of games wasting my time, and finally learned how to search and learn. In the end however, my wife set up my E-mail account just to have one (never used) and 3 years later can`t remember the pass-word.I can`t retrieve,,,but maybe I can send??? Does this sound right? Sorreeyyy.