Windshield washer fluid in dishwasher drain?

[Ehouse]

Excellent hidden sarcasm, or, irony if you like.

Horizertical...

English major. It's a curse.

 

[ironpony]

Nah, no sewer gas. At all. And I don't know where the "3 inches out of level" idea came from. Maybe it's 1/8 or 1/4 inch out of level, max. There flat out isn't room for it to be more than that with a 3-inch pipe in a 4-inch space.

it has to be far enough out of level to trap the water that is freezing and clogging the pipe. if it was only an 1/8 or 1/4 and froze it would not clog the pipe. water finds it own level an it is filling the pipe. so the pipe is at a minimum 1.5 inches out of level if it is 3 inch pipe. .

 

[gyrfalcon]

it has to be far enough out of level to trap the water that is freezing and clogging the pipe. if it was only an 1/8 or 1/4 and froze it would not clog the pipe. water finds it own level an it is filling the pipe. so the pipe is at a minimum 1.5 inches out of level if it is 3 inch pipe. .

My apologies for misleading. I typed from memory instead of double-checking. This stretch of pipe is 1.5 inches, not 3. When we put the whole thing in originally (and by "we," I mean a handyman/contractor did, while i stood around and watched), the horizontal stretch in question appeared visually to be level, though there wasn't room to slip in and read an actual level.

This whole operation was definitely a kludge, and the handyman/contractor turned out not to have as much experience and expertise with non-standard -- to put it mildly -- operations like this as he made himself out to. But I've had no problems with it in 6 years or so except for the occasional freeze in the drain, and sounds like maybe that pooling of water is otherwise a Good Thing if there's no trap in the system, which I'm honestly not sure of since I haven't ventured into the cellar to have a good look at the connections (cellar is dirt floor, small, and so festooned with spider webs, it's like stepping into a scene from an Indiana Jones movie, so I don't venture down there casually!)

 

[FanMan]

I would avoid the windshield washer fluid, as most contain methanol, which may attack the rubber seals even if it doesn't hurt the septic. RV antifreeze seems a better bet.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I would avoid the windshield washer fluid, as most contain methanol, which may attack the rubber seals even if it doesn't hurt the septic. RV antifreeze seems a better bet.

Good advice, and I did just that.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

This is interesting.
DW has a water pump to discharge through a 3/4 -1" line for up to like 6 feet(check owners manual) they sell an add on pump to go longer distances that wires into DW for proper cycle. you can run the small line to a suitable drain with trap and vent. and have no trouble. possibly.
it sounds to me like you are most likely pumping with a pump that can not handle the larger diameter drain pipe that is run horizontal. the pump needs to be sized for the additional load. IMHO

 

[gyrfalcon]

This is interesting.
DW has a water pump to discharge through a 3/4 -1" line for up to like 6 feet(check owners manual) they sell an add on pump to go longer distances that wires into DW for proper cycle. you can run the small line to a suitable drain with trap and vent. and have no trouble. possibly.
it sounds to me like you are most likely pumping with a pump that can not handle the larger diameter drain pipe that is run horizontal. the pump needs to be sized for the additional load. IMHO

That's an interesting thought, and given the inventive but less than super-experiencedt handyman who put the thing in, not all that unlikely. Thanks.

Once this brutal cold spell is over (-10 at my house at the moment and worse tomorrow), I'll brave the spider webs and go down and take some measurements in the cellar instead of relying on my crappy memory for this stuff.

But question for you. Is there any reason (other than the occasional freezing problem I can presumably fix with a little RV antifreeze a handful of times in the winter) why I should do anything about this if you're right? I'm not flush, so to speak, with spare cash and definitely don't have the chops to do this myself, so if it's something I can do without, I'm unwilling to spend the $$. As I've said above, this set-up has otherwise worked flawlessly for me for about 6 years now.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

potentially you could flood your kitchen, but if antifreeze works and your happy so be it.

I would investigate the pump replacement so you have a plan when the pump or dishwasher fails.

thinking outloud: if you have a 3" pvc now I would when you replace the dishwasher run a 1" line inside the PVC until you get to a point of convenience and cut pvc install a trap and vent. essentially using the pvc as a chase for smaller pipe/hose.

 

[gyrfalcon]

potentially you could flood your kitchen, but if antifreeze works and your happy so be it.

I would investigate the pump replacement so you have a plan when the pump or dishwasher fails.

thinking outloud: if you have a 3" pvc now I would when you replace the dishwasher run a 1" line inside the PVC until you get to a point of convenience and cut pvc install a trap and vent. essentially using the pvc as a chase for smaller pipe/hose.

This has been a fairly long and somewhat confusing thread, but... I was wrong when I said it was a 3-inch pipe. The bit that goes from the DW through the floor is 1.5-inch. My bad! What it does after it emerges into the cellar proper I'm not sure, but my (imprecise) memory is that there's 3-inch in there somewhere.

And yes, oh, definitely, a flood happened the first time I ran the thing without realizing there was an ice block in there. Very ugly! But for 9 months of the year, and most of the other three when the cold isn't too awful, no floods. I learned after that first flood to crawl under the counter in very cold weather and pour near-boiling water down the pipe-- and listen carefully-- to see if there was a block before running the DW. So no floods since then, just annoyance.

Are you a plumber, or just a really good DIY guy? (I live in the DIY capital of the universe here in rural VT. State motto-- "Code? What code?" Some places in my house, in fact, electrical outlets have been put in askew and/or plain upside-down, for instance) I'd actually like to be a plumber in my next life, but in this life, I'm a nearly complete ignoramus.

 

[Ehouse]

This has been a fairly long and somewhat confusing thread, but... I was wrong when I said it was a 3-inch pipe. The bit that goes from the DW through the floor is 1.5-inch. My bad! What it does after it emerges into the cellar proper I'm not sure, but my (imprecise) memory is that there's 3-inch in there somewhere.

And yes, oh, definitely, a flood happened the first time I ran the thing without realizing there was an ice block in there. Very ugly! But for 9 months of the year, and most of the other three when the cold isn't too awful, no floods. I learned after that first flood to crawl under the counter in very cold weather and pour near-boiling water down the pipe-- and listen carefully-- to see if there was a block before running the DW. So no floods since then, just annoyance.

Are you a plumber, or just a really good DIY guy? (I live in the DIY capital of the universe here in rural VT. State motto-- "Code? What code?" Some places in my house, in fact, electrical outlets have been put in askew and/or plain upside-down, for instance) I'd actually like to be a plumber in my next life, but in this life, I'm a nearly complete ignoramus.

Gyr, Hopefully the RV stuff is working for you. As you say this thread 's getting confusing but I have one more observation and possible cure. Even though there's just a little spit back laying in the short pipe and not enough to close the pipe, it may still freeze and build with each washer cycle until it does. It won't stop the flow till its totally blocked or close to it. Putting a little AF in after each use should work, but in the spring, when the Robin sings, Try this; cut a piece ( maybe an inch) out of the vertical drain that you can access under the DW and re-join with a connector. This should raise the heel of the ell under your floor allowing complete drainage.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

Are you a plumber, or just a really good DIY guy? (I live in the DIY capital of the universe here in rural VT. State motto-- "Code? What code?" Some places in my house, in fact, electrical outlets have been put in askew and/or plain upside-down, for instance) I'd actually like to be a plumber in my next life, but in this life, I'm a nearly complete ignoramus.

I guess I would be a more of a DIY with much experience been around construction since birth. even the no code areas should follow the state codes or the federal codes for life and safety reasons. its the lack of inspection that makes the rural areas such a lot of fun and the economics of getting a plumber or electrician to come out to a rural area.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I guess I would be a more of a DIY with much experience been around construction since birth. even the no code areas should follow the state codes or the federal codes for life and safety reasons. its the lack of inspection that makes the rural areas such a lot of fun and the economics of getting a plumber or electrician to come out to a rural area.

No problem at all here with available plumbers or electricians and the like. They're not storefront businesses with multiple employees and a receptionist, just guys with trucks full of tools and supplies and a cell phone. Incompetents who screw up don't last long because the word spreads quickly. They're all neighbors and soon friends, and as a result it wouldn't even occur to them to exploit you or cheat you.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

That's great if you got the trades around.

I hired a plumber and electrician a few years back when I redid my basement and kitchen and bathroom. I had everything completed and relaxing by the time they showed up saved a bunch of money, but I was hoping to just get it done with minimal effort. I find in my area if its not a new construction most are not interested if they have any other work going on. Lot of talent in this area just hard for me to schedule with my availability.
I find DIY to be satisfying, but time is a killer now to DIY on everything.
I did sheet rock, paint and trim this past week. with the weather was able to get carpenter to come and knock out the trim in short order. I find having things ready to go makes for a time savings if I can nail down a little help with the gravy work .
Always a project going on!

 

[gyrfalcon]

That's great if you got the trades around.

I hired a plumber and electrician a few years back when I redid my basement and kitchen and bathroom. I had everything completed and relaxing by the time they showed up saved a bunch of money, but I was hoping to just get it done with minimal effort. I find in my area if its not a new construction most are not interested if they have any other work going on. Lot of talent in this area just hard for me to schedule with my availability.
I find DIY to be satisfying, but time is a killer now to DIY on everything.
I did sheet rock, paint and trim this past week. with the weather was able to get carpenter to come and knock out the trim in short order. I find having things ready to go makes for a time savings if I can nail down a little help with the gravy work .
Always a project going on!

Interesting. In my area, anybody who only wanted to work on new construction wouldn't have any work. I have huge admiration and respect for plumbers in particular who have to cope with an astounding variety of plumbing put in, modified, partially replaced, with all kinds of different materials over the course of a century in older homes. That's a bottom line requirement around here. Back when I lived in metro burbs -- in a 100-yo house -- folks like that were much less common and I held onto the one I finally found with a death grip. Those puzzles were like catnip to him, bless 'im, and he really loved sorting them out, rather than just tearing it all out and putting in all-new.

Part of me admires your ability to do all that stuff, but the other part of me insists that life is too short.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

yeah life is short!
spent my child hood repairing old houses and hand digging cellar holes!
family had over 250 units of apartments in old homes. Learned a lot about trades at 1:00am.

built my house I'm in now at age of 16.

I have much regard for all trades that took the time to mentor me as a child helping me out in the binds. Back in the day a boy could earn a mans wage if he was ambitious!

 

[DAKSY]

Why not just put a lead light in the area (if you can get one in there)? I have a problem at the lake where the main drain lines exit the foundation. The double traps are under a deck & that side of the house faces a lake. The wind blows predominantly from the north & there are times, like in the temps we have here in the northeast, when they will freeze. I put a small 60 watt lead light in there & in 20 minutes they'll thaw. Once they do I unplug the light.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Why not just put a lead light in the area (if you can get one in there)? I have a problem at the lake where the main drain lines exit the foundation. The double traps are under a deck & that side of the house faces a lake. The wind blows predominantly from the north & there are times, like in the temps we have here in the northeast, when they will freeze. I put a small 60 watt lead light in there & in 20 minutes they'll thaw. Once they do I unplug the light.

By "lead light," do you mean the new LED bulbs? I haven't had one of those yet. Do they run hotter than CFLs? I'll take a look at that possibility, but I don't believe there's an outlet anywhere near there, so it would involve a really long extension cord hanging across the space, which I'm uncomfortable with. And also, can't get any kind of light actually in there next to the pipe. Best I could do is at the exit point.

Also, if I've got to go down into the cellar every time with an extension cord, why not just use the old hair dryer tactic?

(We were down to -15 last night here, how about you? We've had that kind of overnight dip and worse before, but the long surrounding period of zero and sub-zero temps hasn't happened here in a long time. It's fascinating and horrifying how long it's taking the structure itself to warm up a bit. The walls themselves are just sucking up all the heat the stove is putting out, and the temp really drops like a stone when the stovetop temp starts to sag a bit. Physics can be a terrible thing to watch in action!)

 

[DAKSY]

By "lead light," do you mean the new LED bulbs? I haven't had one of those yet. Do they run hotter than CFLs? I'll take a look at that possibility, but I don't believe there's an outlet anywhere near there, so it would involve a really long extension cord hanging across the space, which I'm uncomfortable with. And also, can't get any kind of light actually in there next to the pipe. Best I could do is at the exit point.

Also, if I've got to go down into the cellar every time with an extension cord, why not just use the old hair dryer tactic?

(We were down to -15 last night here, how about you? We've had that kind of overnight dip and worse before, but the long surrounding period of zero and sub-zero temps hasn't happened here in a long time. It's fascinating and horrifying how long it's taking the structure itself to warm up a bit. The walls themselves are just sucking up all the heat the stove is putting out, and the temp really drops like a stone when the stovetop temp starts to sag a bit. Physics can be a terrible thing to watch in action!)

Just a regular incandescent bulb, if you can get one. Leave the lead cord down there & plug it in when you need it.
We were about -14...Too freekin cold...

 

[hossthehermit]

Did ya ever think about washing dishes by hand in the sink ????????????????

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Hmmm...3 bucks for a gallon of pink stuff or 30 bucks for a liter of 100 proof vodka - your call. It should be pretty easy to find at any hardware or box store. Very common stuff.

THats what i was thinkin.......... Vodka no way.......let it freeze