Will I regret Getting off my Grandma Fisher for an EPA stove

[Bigg_Redd]

Jaggs is dead on, but, do the total costing first. The EPA stoves require almost perfect wood and venting (chimney) to work any where near what they advertise. Which means you need the the time, the inclination and the space to collect and store 2-3 years of wood supply. Also, you will need to closely research your chimney requirements, how tall, liner (almost always a must)....? insulated.....? Switching the old one for a new one is not always as easy or cheap as one hopes. I learned this the expensive way.

By the time you calculate all these factors into the equation realizing ROI can be extended for years.

Not here - 90% of PNW species are good to go after a year. Anything after 2 years is superfluous (we don't burn a lot of oak)(thank Gawd).


But you're right on the money with the ROI

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I ran a Pre-EPA stove. And that bastard wasn't much fun with wet wood. Pre-EPA or a modern stove requires good fuel. Not sure about "perfect." chit needs to be dry to produce good heat no matter what stove you are running.


What is convenience worth to you? My old Pre-EPA stove, about the same size as the modern stove that replaced it, would provide much shorter burn times. I'd often wake up to a cold room in the morning. Often times a cold restart was needed. Since I moved to modern stoves, burn times are extended and the stoves hold heat longer for easier restarts. The 30 can now get the stove room just as warm while providing 4-8 hours of additional heat.


Fact is, a lot of the old Pre-EPA stoves SHOULD have had a liner and some had minimal chimney height requirements. Just because many people slammed in the install doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. I don't know about the "closely research" aspect.

Just like modern stoves not all pre-EPA stove were created equal. For instance I see that you had two VCs.

 

[Hogwildz]

Think long and hard about it. Look at the January cold snap many EPA owners crying but, not many old schoolers crying. It's -15f here with an inside of 68f with both stoves and a monitor 2200 (all cruising). I burn about 6 cords 75g of k-1, and 15g of LP each winter +/-. I do live in a cold ass location though(sheltered valley).

Hmm, 6 cords of wood, 2 stoves, a kero space heater, 75 gallons of kero and some propane to top it off.... Sucks to be you.
Heating 2666sf here with 1 EPA insert. Ain't no spring picnic here this winter either. Old school is just that, old & cold.
Keep feeding all that crap for your 68 degrees, I'll feed 2x a day and do better things with my time and money.
Many old schoolers feeding their stoves every 4 hours, running them wide open and cherry red.
Most of the EPA owners crying, are recently converted old schoolers relearning how to burn in a stove that takes less wood for same heat and just need to relearn their burning habits. Or they bought too small a stove with some grandiose expectations of the smaller stove.
Most of those new EPA owners are very happy a couple burning season in with their EPA stove.
When you list the firepower you have, the amount and variety of fuels your going through, and then boast how reliable old school is, you just answered the person's question right there.
Epic fail...............

Re: ROI, Mine was about 2 years. Nothing to complain about there.
At 8 seasons in, my average cost per year for the insert & liner is about $375.00. Another $300.00 to $350.00 per year for wood. Again, nothing to complain about. One oil tank fill up would cost over
$900.00.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Just like modern stoves not all pre-EPA stove were created equal. For instance I see that you had two VCs.

Correct. Though, only one of my old VC stoves was Pre-EPA.

 

[Hogwildz]

Any stove should have good, dry wood run through it.
Sure you can burn wet wood in either, and better in an older stove, and these are mostly the ones you see on the news that have burnt down a house.
Regardless the stove, the wetter the wood, the more crud in the stack for a nice freight train a coming.....

 

[bayrunner]

Hey Guys----You guys haven’t scared me off yet, thanks for the responses, I greatly appreciate them. I think with your responses it’s helping to get some things in focus. For one thing, like Clemsonfor suggested, I will store the Fisher (just in case).I was thinking, instead of making a Big investment (money wise), I'm leaning towards a Englander NC30 . Do you think the NC13 1.8 cu.ft is to small for 1600 sq ft? Anyway you guys are helpful, pointing out the importance of DRY wood (2or 3 years) for EPA stove and proper size of stove. THANKS B ayrunner

 

[Jags]

If you are used to the heat of the Grandma go big (NC30). The NC13 is a fine stove, but literally half of what you are currently running.

ETA - the NC30 uses a 6" pipe.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Do you think the NC13 1.8 cu.ft is to small for 1600 sq ft?

You can not go from a 3.3 cu ft Pre-EPA stove to a 1.8 cu ft EPA stove and think you will get anywhere close to the same output.

I would be willing to bet you will have a colder house and shorter burn times when compared to the current Fisher stove.

Also, you did not let us know if the current chimney is lined and if it is, what size liner is it using?

 

[BrotherBart]

Look at the January cold snap many EPA owners crying

No there weren't.

 

[Wapati Chaser]

bayrunner, check out this post:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/or-tax-credits-spectacular-deals.123479/#post-1655548
Oregon dept of Energy offers some fantastic tax credits on certain stoves. Feds also have a tax credit on stove purchases as well.
Might want to take this into consideration if you are stove shopping. They paid a major chunk of my Princess purchase.

 

[Kosmik]

You can always sell the new and reinstall the old. But I think using 40% less wood and get the same heat out would be a plus for anyone.

Yeah, neighbor burns 5 cords/yr.
I'll burn ~2 from Jan 6 to the end of winter at the rate I'm burning.

 

[Kosmik]

Think long and hard about it. Look at the January cold snap many EPA owners crying but, not many old schoolers crying. It's -15f here with an inside of 68f with both stoves and a monitor 2200 (all cruising). I burn about 6 cords 75g of k-1, and 15g of LP each winter +/-. I do live in a cold ass location though(sheltered valley).

Only thing I was crying about was being too stubborn to open the door a bit more with my crappy wood until the excess moisture was out.
Once those secondaries are steady and the airflow gets choked down the heat starts pouring off it.
Leaky house prone to drafts without air makeup near stove, leaks across room....
Was real cold with fan draft pellet stove.
Don't know about pre-EPA stoves, just that I use about half the wood of my neighbor (I keep it a little cooler and let it cool down at night). But that pellet stove would go out all the time at night. So no difference for me there.

 

[bayrunner]

Hey Kosmik ___ How do you like your Durango?

 

[BrowningBAR]

The Durango is too small of a stove for your needs.

 

[Kosmik]

I was talking about the concept of EPA stoves burning the gases and radiating the goods instead of shooting it up the chimney.
Yeah, Durango way too small for him. Bout the right size for a 1200 ft sq leaky house. With upstairs bedrooms closed off most the time.
I'm in a small house, small stove, mostly a cube.

The savings are in not reloading as often and getting hot fires with less draft.
But there is no substitute for cubic feet as that determines the amount of BTUs you can stuff in there.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I was talking about the concept of EPA stoves burning the gases and radiating the goods instead of shooting it up the chimney.
Yeah, Durango way too small for him. Bout the right size for a 1200 ft sq leaky house. With upstairs bedrooms closed off most the time.
I'm in a small house, small stove, mostly a cube.

The savings are in not reloading as often and getting hot fires with less draft.
But there is no substitute for cubic feet as that determines the amount of BTUs you can stuff in there.

You are correct, I was directing my comment to bayrunner.

 

[Paulywalnut]

You can throw anything in the fishers. Your next stove will be much fussier.

 

[mark cline]

We replaced our Fisher Grandma Bear that we've had for 32 yrs. ,with a Hearthstone Mansfield. We learned fast that less wood equals more heat. We are saving at least 20% in wood used and the house is way warmer .We love our old Fisher and will use it in our hunting camp. Hate to see it go , but the Mansfield is drop dead gorgeous.

 

[Snotrocket]

I switched from an All Nighter (very similar to a Fisher) to an Englander NC30 in December. Similar setup to the original poster only slightly more square footage.

I couldn't be happier. I used to feed the All Nighter 4 times a day. The new stove twice, and sometimes those are partial loads.

The house is warmer and I'm using 50% less wood. The nice view of the fire is just icing on the cake. My furnace hasn't been on one time since the day I installed it even with temps at -20F.

 

[Wildo]

Note: I was not trashing/endorsing either stove clan even if it seemed that way. I was just pointing out that there were a lot (surprising to me anyway) of EPA owners saying that there stove couldn't keep up when it was brutal out for whatever reason. Here I have multiple heat sources to keep up, my stoves can't keep my house above 70f when it drops past -5f without the heaters I hate running. It is an old house that has planer shavings and sawdust for insulation and a compartmentalized floor plan to boot. I overestimated my stove's ability until I moved here and tried heating 2200-2300sq.ft. from the unfinished basement. I now know why the previous owners had 5 heat sources.(2 wood stoves,2LPs and a Monitor).

There are many new stoves I would love to own. There are several that I am continually contemplating but I have not yet pulled the trigger on.
There are many old stoves I would love to own. There are several that I am continually contemplating but I have not yet pulled the trigger on.

My current main stove will be 25 yrs old this summer and only has some surface rust pitting for damage, will a new stove hold up as well?

 

[clemsonfor]

Note: I was not trashing/endorsing either stove clan even if it seemed that way. I was just pointing out that there were a lot (surprising to me anyway) of EPA owners saying that there stove couldn't keep up when it was brutal out for whatever reason. Here I have multiple heat sources to keep up, my stoves can't keep my house above 70f when it drops past -5f without the heaters I hate running. It is an old house that has planer shavings and sawdust for insulation and a compartmentalized floor plan to boot. I overestimated my stove's ability until I moved here and tried heating 2200-2300sq.ft. from the unfinished basement. I now know why the previous owners had 5 heat sources.(2 wood stoves,2LPs and a Monitor).

There are many new stoves I would love to own. There are several that I am continually contemplating but I have not yet pulled the trigger on.
There are many old stoves I would love to own. There are several that I am continually contemplating but I have not yet pulled the trigger on.

My current main stove will be 25 yrs old this summer and only has some surface rust pitting for damage, will a new stove hold up as well?

My current EPA is 10 years old or close and it has no rust anywhere other that the part thats in the actual fireplace from rain thats fallen on the top. Its an insert.

 

[Wildo]

Sucks to be you.

In a sense yeah it does, But $1200(all fuels) total $800 for 6cords of tree length and enough beer and gas to get it c/s/s,$300 for k-1, and $100 for LP beats the hell out of only god knows how much oil every year. We have 9200+/- HDD days per year if you go by that scale according to degreedays.net . We like it cool also, windows get opened at 72 even in the winter

 

[begreen]

Not here - 90% of PNW species are good to go after a year. Anything after 2 years is superfluous (we don't burn a lot of oak)(thank Gawd).


But you're right on the money with the ROI

Don't forget native Madrona. It takes a couple years of seasoning too. We're burning cherry + locust right now and loving it.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Don't forget native Madrona. It takes a couple years of seasoning too. We're burning cherry + locust right now and loving it.

Ah yes. But does any burn enough of that to count?

 

[begreen]

Madrona is pretty popular firewood locally. I have a couple years stashed beyond this year's supply (all scrounged) and will have my eye out for more locust and madrona. In Seattle, apple is pretty popular too, for a price. Out toward Wenatche it is a common firewood.