Wife is getting bummed out

[Dave A.]

Not sure what the problem is with so many of the stove dealers. But they definitely don't seem to realize that a lot of people are wanting to be able to turn off the central heat (or turn the thermostat down to an emergency threshold like 60F) and heat the house with the stove/insert. They must visualize and fear a clueless homeowner who will leave his stat set at 70 in a cold room and have the stove fired up in another and come in complaining that the house is too hot.

I have to question if you actually tell the dealer, I want to be able to heat this house into the 70's and with only the stove/insert, would he still be undersizing. Maybe so, in which case, you just can't rely on them other than to write your requirements in the contract -- stove will be able to heat entire house to an average temp of 70F when temps outside are as low as 5F, if not, stove is exchangeable for only the difference in retail price (X) for the larger model (which will be installed at no addl cost).

So when the dealer balks at putting such a clause into the contract, you can tell him that in that case, you'll pick the size stove you think is right, his opinion has no value if he is not willing to back it up.

 

[Sully]

My house runs on gas, not to expensive still I don't like to pay out to damn power company ! Which I work for .....lol. I got records from last year they were not terrible but my wife did remind me that we were 62 during the day and lower at night. I know heat nazi here. Lol. I'm going to have an energy audit done at this home mostly looking at drafts and insulation. Than start fixing those.

I keep looking at thermostat on phone, I have a neat thermostat. She is home today and I can see she has that heat on because it has been 68 in house all morning.

She talked with sales guy this morning. He is going to see what he can do. He is pretty good guy, vague on details though. In the end he is a sales guy though.

I don't mean to complain I just really expected more out of an expensive investment. Between install and purchase of insert and liner I have to justify that cost to myself and shivering at 4 am coming down steps towards stove room is in no way justifying that coat. It was proably 38 out last night. That's nothing compared to some of other users on here who maintain awesome temps indoors. I'm getting ready to test a theory tonight and not run fireplace or heater. I'm willing to bet there is no more than a ten degree difference than packing that stove last night and letting it burn through out

 

[begreen]

650 is also rare. Majority of time temp is around 450 to 500. thats a 600 burn

View attachment 118269

What is the air control set at for this stage of burn? Is it closed or almost closed?

 

[Bluerubi]

I do 95+% of all my heating needs with an insert in my 3000sqft house in NH. I'd say your results are actually better than mine from a temp rise standpoint, so I wouldn't be too discouraged yet. The key to success as mentioned before is to keep the insert pumping out the heat. I do fine in the dead of winter if I always have a fire going (maintenance of house temp), but if I go away for a day or two then it is essentially impossible to use the insert to bring the house up to a comfortable level. I then put on the furnace to help to warm everything up to the desired temp, and then shut it back off.

It's far from ideal, but I typically stay up a couple hours later than my wife just to be sure I can load the stove and get good heat output throughout the night. If I get lazy and it stops putting out serious BTU's at 2 or 3AM, then I pay for it the next day by having to recover that lost heating time.

 

[Sully]

What is the air control set at for this stage of burn? Is it closed or almost closed?

Honestly it's hard to find good place to get temps of this insert. It rages from 350 to 650 across face and the top is always different. I run the air in three step. Open until flames take over wood, half way until temp is almost up, than closed (a little open) for the long burn

 

[begreen]

Yes, The top is convective and not going to give an accurate reading. With that big bay window an IR thermometer reading off the frame may be about as accurate as you can get.

 

[maple1]

Not sure what the problem is with so many of the stove dealers. But they definitely don't seem to realize that a lot of people are wanting to be able to turn off the central heat (or turn the thermostat down to an emergency threshold like 60F) and heat the house with the stove/insert. They must visualize and fear a clueless homeowner who will leave his stat set at 70 in a cold room and have the stove fired up in another and come in complaining that the house is too hot.

I have to question if you actually tell the dealer, I want to be able to heat this house into the 70's and with only the stove/insert, would he still be undersizing. Maybe so, in which case, you just can't rely on them other than to write your requirements in the contract -- stove will be able to heat entire house to an average temp of 70F when temps outside are as low as 5F, if not, stove is exchangeable for only the difference in retail price (X) for the larger model (which will be installed at no addl cost).

So when the dealer balks at putting such a clause into the contract, you can tell him that in that case, you'll pick the size stove you think is right, his opinion has no value if he is not willing to back it up.

There is likely also big reluctance in many cases to tell a prospective customer that a space heater really won't do the job they want & they really should be looking at a central heating solution. A lost sale is a lost sale, after all.

 

[mass_burner]

Honestly it's hard to find good place to get temps of this insert. It rages from 350 to 650 across face and the top is always different. I run the air in three step. Open until flames take over wood, half way until temp is almost up, than closed (a little open) for the long burn

Sully,

I have 2 inserts and it is hard to get a reading. When I take a reading with my IR gun, I turn off the fan and point into the top through the air outlet vents, I can just get the beam in to hit the top of the stove. Usually 450-550 at running temp.

Get your energy audit, really helped me out. We also took down 3 walls, really helped air circulation.

 

[Oldhippie]

So this "Family room" is it really the basement? If so, what isthe flooring and what is it sided with, is there insulation?

Sorry if this has been asked and answered, I didn't seen it mentioned.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I have to question if you actually tell the dealer, I want to be able to heat this house into the 70's and with only the stove/insert, would he still be undersizing. Maybe so, in which case, you just can't rely on them other than to write your requirements in the contract -- stove will be able to heat entire house to an average temp of 70F when temps outside are as low as 5F, if not, stove is exchangeable for only the difference in retail price (X) for the larger model (which will be installed at no addl cost).

I have found that dealers/sales reps just aren't educated or honest about their product in a lot of cases. There are honest dealers and reps, but the majority seem to either have no idea what they are selling or just lie.

 

[Dustin]

I had some of the issues you describe in my first year of burning with my insert in my 2000 sq ft house.

I placed some high efficiency blinds on two massive windows, sealed up the foundation, caulked some leaky windows..

And, run the insert hard and hot as hell, 650 to 700 until the house reaches 74, then I can maintain it with a low burn..

I found that the blinds on the older windows made a huge difference. If I open the blinds, I notice a significant heat loss within about an hour..

 

[Sully]

So this "Family room" is it really the basement? If so, what isthe flooring and what is it sided with, is there insulation?

Sorry if this has been asked and answered, I didn't seen it mentioned.

It's not in basement lol, my drawing sucked I know lol.

 

[Sully]

It's not in basement lol, my drawing sucked I know lol.

My entry way always seems chilly. I'm sure that could use work. I think you guys are hitting the nail lol, old house needs some sealing up.

 

[weatherguy]

When I got my insert my goal wasn't to heat the entire house all winter, it was to cut down on oil usage and be comfortable while I'm home working, mission accomplished, I cut the oil bill by 75% and the house has been warmer than ever. With some minor tweaks here and there you should be able to accomplish the same thing. I have no problem with the furnace helping out when needed but when brought up to temp the insert takes over and stops the furnace from cycling on and off. If you have to keep the one you have maybe try to button up a little better and lower your expectations, you should still save a ton in fuel.

 

[BrowningBAR]

My entry way always seems chilly. I'm sure that could use work. I think you guys are hitting the nail lol, old house needs some sealing up.

I have a really old house with awful insulation. In order to heat your home you need to oversize the hell out of your stove purchase to provide the warmth you are looking for. I have 2,150 sq ft of draftiness and use three stoves that all have fireboxes larger than your stove.

If you think you your home is drafty, most likely it is REALLY drafty. Trust me on this one.

What is your attic insulation like?

 

[Andy S.]

If I get lazy and it stops putting out serious BTU's at 2 or 3AM, then I pay for it the next day by having to recover that lost heating time.

Wouldn't it be best then to set your thermostat for whatever your other source is at your squeal point so it will kick in and ease the strain of recovering?

 

[Sully]

Attic insulation is there, I am planning on adding more. Was looking into that yesterday. This is second year in this home. The list of improvements is growing and growing

 

[Dave A.]

And, run the insert hard and hot as hell, 650 to 700 until the house reaches 74, then I can maintain it with a low burn..

That's pretty much what I do when I want to heat the house back up -- really have to load it full, leave the air on high till it gets up there over 750 (on top at the hot spot) and then back it down. (note: the 750+ temps are for my Summit, other stoves may not be able to handle it) And then I'll get some serious heat for an hour or so -- will warm up the house about a couple degrees.

Sure the 2400 would do a lot better job than what you've got. But if your wife isn't happy with it... And really based on your size house and how you seem to want it heated, sounds like if you were starting over, you should be looking at one of the big ones -- the Buck 91, Kuma Sequoia, BK King (and a few others I can't think of atm) Problem is they all require an 8" liner.

So maybe, if you end up keeping the 2200, satisfy yourself with it doing the bulk of the heating, find out how to tweak things a bit to get more out of it, (maybe close off some marginally used rooms) be satisfied with it -- it's a nice looking insert.

 

[Sully]

It's a very nice looking insert , works good too, I think I have other things to correct in house which will help maintain heat better. On a side note just came into some red oak. Lol. Seems like the wood is easy to get when I am on the hunt!

 

[BrowningBAR]

Attic insulation is there, I am planning on adding more. Was looking into that yesterday. This is second year in this home. The list of improvements is growing and growing

I just insulated my attic three weeks ago. I went to essentially no insulation to R-30 in 25% of the attic and R48 - R60 in the rest of the attic (mostly R48). It's making a big difference so far.

 

[BrowningBAR]

It's a very nice looking insert , works good too, I think I have other things to correct in house which will help maintain heat better. On a side note just came into some red oak. Lol. Seems like the wood is easy to get when I am on the hunt!

Even with better insulation and minimized drafts, I would still look to a larger insert. You need a 3+ cu ft stove in that place. What has your dealer said?

 

[Sully]

I just insulated my attic three weeks ago. I went to essentially no insulation to R-30 in 25% of the attic and R48 - R60 in the rest of the attic (mostly R48). It's making a big difference so far.

Did you remove any of old or just add to it. I am just going to go across joist with a much thicker insulation.

 

[Sully]

Even with better insulation and minimized drafts, I would still look to a larger insert. You need a 3+ cu ft stove in that place. What has your dealer said?

Has not called back yet........lol. Hopefully I can move up units. If not I'm going to have to make due with what I have. Looks wise and sbi customer service. Gets an a+. Me on the other hand, lack of knowledge and research......I don't want to see my report card lol

 

[BrowningBAR]

Did you remove any of old or just add to it. I am just going to go across joist with a much thicker insulation.

I rearranged what little batts I had up there (and it was not much). I pushed them together as opposed to the randomness that was there (no idea what they were thinking with that) and I blew in insulation for 75% of the attic. Covered the batts with blown-in and then went to town on the rest with 32 bags. The final 25% of the attic I created some sub-flooring and did a couple of layers of insulation board to bring it up to R30 while also providing a storage space. I separated that section of the attic from the rest of the attic to minimize the cold air flow. Finishing up the attic staircase block-off to prevent cold air from coming down the stairs.

 

[mass_burner]

Did you remove any of old or just add to it. I am just going to go across joist with a much thicker insulation.

I wouldn't advise that. You need to look for drafts, air leaks under your existing and seal them. Insulation does little without sealing the air leaks. Also, I like blown in added atop bats.