Who makes quality hand tools, power tools, lawn and garden equipment?

[Jazzberry]

Don't forget Rockwell

 

[peakbagger]

FYI, there are two Rockwells that I don't think are affiliated. Delta's parent organization bought out Rockwell Power equipment about 35 years ago. For a while the equipment was labeled Rockwell/Delta but prior to that Rockwell made some nice heavy duty stationary tools. I have 8" Rockwell jointer in my basement. The new Rockwell is an unknown to me.

 

[greg13]

View attachment 194221

Lies!

I mean, pliers are not INTENDED to replace wrenches, I'll give you that one, but you're not taking away my crescent wrammer!

Give a mechanic a tool, and he'll show you how to misuse it

 

[johneh]

Give a mechanic a tool, and he'll show you how to misuse it

IT is called REPUPOSING not misusing
and I should know I am a retired mechanic

 

[dogwood]

Jazzberry, I hear you on the price of Snap-on, Proto and Mac. On the other hand the lesser quality tools often seem to end of in the trash bin sooner rather than later. You'd think there'd be somebody producing quality tools at less than the cost of an arm or a leg. But maybe not? Appreciate your tips on Milwaukee and Dewalt cordless tools. I've only ever had one cordless tool, a drill I got for Christmas when cordless first came out. Greg, thanks for the link to the Snap-on warranty page. I will follow up on that. Jetsam, if you read the article you provided the link to, you should know the new Chinese Cresent wrenches are probably not good for much more than being "wrammers" anyway.

Johneh, would you have any idea about what manufacturing year you would consider might separate Old Delta from the new. I love the old Delta equipment, but don't know around what year they started making inferior stuff in order to avoid it. What type of stationary Delta equipment do you own or use, and would recommend.

Peakbagger, you stated AC VF drives are "not really applicable to a typical stationary power tool, but if you are running off a generator it makes big difference, you can get way with a much smaller generator. Folks with well pumps can really benefit from them." I fairly recently purchased A Honda EU7000is generator. I'm using it as a makeshift whole house generator for power outages via an interlock connection to our service panel. I am a little concerned about it handling the surge of our well pump when other loads are on the generator at the same time. Maybe the GE AC VF you mentioned would eliminate that issue. You didn't mean to say the GE wasn't appropriate for use with stationary woodworking power tools otherwise did you? I've been reading up on 3 phase power since you mentioned it in your earlier response, but haven't a full understanding yet, so bear with me. I'll take a look at the Automation Direct site. What type of horsepower loads would you anticipate the GE to be able to handle?

Thanks again all.

Mike

 

[iamlucky13]

I don't have a particularly large collection of power tools, most of it mid-grade stuff of several brands based on reviews of specific products (Dewalt, Makita, Rigid, etc), and a few more homeowner grade (mostly Ryobi) tools. Of those I have, my Bosch jig saw stands out as one that is noticeably better than any of the competing models I've handled - Much smoother, more stable, and with more of an overall sense of quality. Their blades are pretty good, too - reciprocating blades are sold under the Bosch name, but spinning blades kept the Freud name after they bought that company.

John Deere and Stihl get dismissed by some unfairly based on the fact that they both make regular homeowner grade products. However, they both also make professional quality equipment. You just generally buy those products at different stores, and you pay far more for them. That was always the case, though.

I've heard that Porter Cable still makes a quality handheld belt sander, but since Black and Decker bought them out, most of the rest of their tools fall right where their pricing would suggest: in between the Black and Decker and the Dewalt branded products.

FYI, there are two Rockwells that I don't think are affiliated. Delta's parent organization bought out Rockwell Power equipment about 35 years ago.

Are there any tools still sold under the original Rockwell lineage?

As far as I've been able to dig up, the Rockwell you now see at the Orange and Blue stores has no affiliation at all with the old company. It's a Chinese company that mostly made tools under contract for other brands. They simply bought the name from Delta around the time the Fein oscillating tool patent expired, and that seems to be their main product now.

I've got one of their Soniccrafter tools, and it feels pretty solid, although not very refined.

I don't think anybody has mentioned Jet for stationary power tools. I've always been under the impression they're pretty much comparable to Grizzly. I've only got limited experience with either, and in my line of work, they've always tended to be abused, so I couldn't give proper-feedback about either.

 

[iamlucky13]

By the way, there's some really interesting info here about what brands are owned by what company.
http://toolguyd.com/tool-brands-corporate-affiliations/

Looking through the lists, you'll probably be surprised by quite a few examples and how much overall consolidation there is. Almost all the brands we recognize are part of some larger manufacturing company, targeted at a particular sub-market or price tier.

I didn't realize that both Proto and Mac are owned by Stanley Black and Decker, or that Ryobi was affiliated with Milwaukee.

It also reminded me of some recent news: Sears is in the process of selling the Craftsman brand to Black and Decker. This isn't really a surprise - Sears needs cash to try to restructure their business, and Black and Decker was already making most of their power tools.

Makita is one of a very small number of stand-alone tool companies.

 

[peakbagger]

Jazzberry, I hear you on the price of Snap-on, Proto and Mac. On the other hand the cheaper quality tools often seem to end of in the trash bin sooner rather than later. You'd think there's be somebody producing quality tools at less than the cost of an arm or a leg. But maybe not? Appreciate your tips on Milwaukee and Dewalt cordless tools. I've only ever had one cordless tool, a drill I got for Christmas when cordless first came out. Greg, thanks for the link to the Snap-on warranty page. I will follow up on that. Jetsam, if you read the article you provided the link to, you should know the new Chinese Cresent wrenches are probably not good for much more than being "wrammers" anyway.

Johneh, would you have any idea about what manufacturing year you would consider might separate Old Delta from the new. I love the old Delta equipment, but don't know around what year they started making inferior stuff in order to avoid it. What type of stationary Delta equipment do you own or use, and would recommend.

Peakbagger, you stated AC VF drives are "not really applicable to a typical stationary power tool, but if you are running off a generator it makes big difference, you can get way with a much smaller generator Folks with well pumps can really benefit from them." I fairly recently purchased A Honda EU7000is generator. I'm using it as a makeshift whole house generator for power outages via an interlock connection to our service panel. I am a little concerned about it handling the surge of our well pump when other loads are on the generator at the same time. Maybe the GE AC VF you mentioned would eliminate that issue. You didn't mean to say the GE wasn't appropriate for use with stationary woodworking power tools otherwise did you? I've been reading up on 3 phase power since you mentioned it in your earlier response but haven't a full understanding yet, so bear with me. I'll take a look at the Automation Direct site. What type of horsepower loads would you anticipate the GE to be able to handle?

Thanks again all.

Mike

Sorry for the misunderstanding (I don't claim to be a writer . The AC variable speed drives are perfect for a stationary 3 phase power tool. Note that few folks go out and buy three phase equipment but as I mentioned there is some of it around on the used market. Looking quickly I found the GE drives and they had a maximum input rating of 3 HP while the Automation Direct drives seemed to max out at 2 HP. I think I have run into up to a 5 HP drive that allowed single phase input but due to how they do the magic inside the drive the internal components get expensive. I would stick with 3 HP as that seems to point where things start getting expensive if you go over it. The other thing to note is that many manufacturers play it loose with horsepower ratings and quote things like peak instantaneous horsepower as a selling point. If the same motor was tested to NEMA standards it may be 1/3 the fake rating.

Not a lot of folks run stationary power tools off a generator, mostly due to the surge of current on startup. Putting a VF drive on a 3 phase stationary power tool will help things out considerably with a generator as the current surge on startup can be programmed out by ramping up the speed slowly. Three phase motors in general have a lot more torque just because of the internal configuration. An important distinction is that we are talking about buying a power tool with a 3 phase motor and driving it off normal household single phase power. There is zero benefit to trying to run a single phase motor off a VF drive unless the motor is three phase meaning you need to change the motor out to three phase motor to get the benefits.

A variable speed drive on an existing well pump is a special case. The well pump is a single phase motor that is being driven by household single phase power and it normally starts across the line so the startup surge is significant. Most new deep well pumps have an external start capacitor which is usually in gray box on the wall in the basement. These newer pumps are called three wire pumps. There are actually four wires going down the well as there is also a ground wire. Some smart folks figured out that by using the external start capacitor wiring they can "fake" the motor into starting and running like a three phase motor even though its a single phase motor. How exactly this works is outside of my competency but I expect a power "geek" could go into the details. For this discussion lets just assume it works. Pump companies will gladly sell you a new pump but they also have designed a plug in replacement that goes in place of the start capacitor box. Once installed you get a lot of benefits. How a regular pump works is on/off control. The pump turns on at full speed, runs at full speed until the pressure switch cuts it off then the pressure drifts down as water is used until the low pressure switch tells the pump to turn on at full speed. Imagine trying to drive a car with an on off switch in place of an accelerator. With a variable speed pump, the pressure switch is replaced with a pressure transmitter. Inside the pump control is PID controller that adjusts the pump speed to maintain the pressure. Use a little bit of water and the pump runs slow, use a lot of water and the pump runs fast. Use no water and the pump shuts off. This cuts the surge current way down. If you go to this link and look at the "sub mono drive" http://franklinwater.com/products/drives-protection/residentiallight-commercial/subdrivemonodrive/ that's the rig. A nice side benefit is you don't need big pressure tank in the basement. They install a real small one mostly as surge suppressor.

Therefore there are probably a lot more folks who can benefit from a variable speed well pump compared to variable speed on 3 phase stationay power tools.

 

[jetsam]

.

It also reminded me of some recent news: Sears is in the process of selling the Craftsman brand to Black and Decker. This isn't really a surprise - Sears needs cash to try to restructure their business, and Black and Decker was already making most of their power tools.

Craftsman has never made a tool, just like Kenmore has never made an appliance. Those are store brands.

What's in a brand?

People who have no idea who made the stuff watch TV and then tell each other "THAT brand is GOOD". As a result, a failing brand whose tools are made by a worldwide rotating menagerie of lowest-bidder manufacturers is selling for over 750 million dollars. Not a factory, or a business... Just the right to slap a "craftsman" sticker on anything you like.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craftsman_(tools)

As it is in politics, behold the power of television to completely suppress critical thinking.

 

[johneh]

Johneh, would you have any idea about what manufacturing year you would consider might separate Old Delta from the new. I love the old Delta equipment, but don't know around what year they started making inferior stuff in order to avoid it. What type of stationary Delta equipment do you own or use, and would recommend.

The Quickest way to tell if Delta wood working stationary machines are of
good quality is if the lock handles ,adjustment wheels and guard are made of
metal . NO PLASTIC . They are older machines or new top of the line
North American made
I have a Unisaw , 8in. long bed Jointer, 20in. Planner and a Band saw All Delta

 

[dogwood]

Iamlucky13, interesting link on what few corporations own what name brands. Isn't that just the way of the world anymore. You're spot on about the Bosch jig saws. I've got the 1590EVS model and it operate just as you say. Nice tool.You mentioned Porter-Cable, too. I like my solid, well built Porter-Cable oscillating tool. Was always intending to get the older Fein versions before their patent expired. Also Porter-Cable did make the replacement chuck that fit my old Rockwell router bought when Porter-Cable, Rockwell and Delta were all one company.

Iamlucky 13, I think the poorer quality merchandise has infiltrated the non-box stores that cater more to professionals too. I have had trouble with a more expensive, not box store, LT-180 John Deere riding mower ($3500 maybe), and and Stihl FS 55R weed eater (about $200). Maybe the weed eater isn't professional grade. I think you'd agree at those price points, when you're buying a brand you should be able to trust, you should not afterwards be frequently be making repairs or replacing parts. Even if it is a consumer, not professional model. That's why some people badmouth the formerly sacrosanct John Deere and Stihl names anymore. Consumers should not be treated like garbage anyway. GM and Ford found this out the hard way when Toyota and Honda cleaned their clock back in the '70's with reliable quality automobiles at affordable prices.

Jetsam, I couldn't agree more with your estimation of TV and store brands.

Peakbagger, thanks for clarifying the application and horsepower ratings of the AC VF drives. Your writing is fine, it's my comprehension that's suspect. I'll study up on your comments today on the applicability and use of an AC VF for a well pump, to see if one fits my back-up generator well pump scenario. I appreciate your expertise on this subject and willingness to provide some education. Very interesting.

Johneh, sounds like you have some good Delta equipment there. I'll keep in mind to look for the absence of plastic when looking at used Delta woodworking machines. Think I'll go look at what Delta stuff is on eBay right now. I'm still wanting to replicate my all-Delta high school wood shop. Thanks for your advice.

Mike

 

[Firewood Daddy]

The best quality/ price tools on the market is definitely Sunex. Life time warranty and killer prices.


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[Brian26]

I bought my great uncles house that hes lived in since the 50's with all his stuff still in it. Have a ton of old tools. Ill take some pictures later and post them. I found this 1955 Craftsman catalog in a drawer on his old workbench. They used to sell everything back then including milling machines and lathes.

 

[venator260]

Give a mechanic a tool, and he'll show you how to misuse it

Haha, ain't that the truth. My dad has about 10-15 straight screwdrivers in his garage at home. Not on of then has a straight edge on it, because they were used for prying.

His toolbox at work is better; he has a set of screwdrivers that are only for use on screws. But he also has a few former screwdrivers, current pry bars there too

 

[SCOTT S.]

I have been really happy with ridged cordless tools. Mostly because of the lifetime warranty. They have replaced my batteries twice in 8 years on my set. I've owned all the other major brands at one time and they have all ended up in the bin not because the tool was bad but replacing both batteries was close to the price of a new drill that comes with 2 batteries.