Which stove for a 12" hearth?

[emt1581]

My hearth really extends out a good 13 inches and change but I'd rather not have the legs/ped. right on the edge...

But I could use some suggestions on small stoves.

Here's what I have...

-Fireplace in my basement with brick face up to the ceiling.

-4.5' thick cement hearth

-floor is linoleum 12" tiles on top of the concrete foundation.

Here's what I want in the wood stove...

- At least front loading

- window

- able to stand on pre-existing hearth

-ash pan

- at least 1200 sq.ft. or 50,000BTU rating

- 18"-20" log capability

- budget is under $800

I know those are pretty specific requirements but hopefully there's something out there yall can suggest.

So far, from another thread I've been looking at the Summer Heat 1200sq.ft. wood stove and the Timber Ridge 1200-1800sq.ft. wood stove. I also surfed around a few threads that looked at smaller stoves but most recommendations were the smaller Jotuls but they don't have windows and some other features I'm looking for.

A couple questions...

1. Given the hearth size (depth and thickness) can I just set a stove on it without anything more on the floor for protection?

2. Is a smaller stove (<400lbs.) something I can install myself? Seems like it'd just be installing the pipe into the chimney and positioning the stove...or is there more to it than that?

I know that's a lot...but I'd appreciate any suggestions on stoves or info.

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[Shari]

A couple questions...

1. Given the hearth size (depth and thickness) can I just set a stove on it without anything more on the floor for protection? Depends on the requirement of your specific wood stove. My Jotul only requires ember protection under the stove. That can be accomplished with one sheet of durock or stone/ceramic tile. Be aware however, all stoves/codes in US require 18" non-combustible from the front of the stove. The tile you mentioned is not non-combustible

2. Is a smaller stove (<400lbs.) something I can install myself? Seems like it'd just be installing the pipe into the chimney and positioning the stove...or is there more to it than that? Best install would be 6" SS liner from the stove to the top of your chimney and yes, you can do that yourself. If your area requires code inspection always check with the enforcement officials before starting any install - install correctly the first time.

Shari

 

[emt1581]

Good to know that all I need is the liner...but I thought I remembered the last time I spoke to the guy at the stove shop (owner) he said I don't actually need to line the entire chimney... just the pipe from the stove to the chimney/flue. But obviously I have more homework to do!

As far as the hearth, I knew every stove was different. I'm just hoping I can find one that won't need anything too elaborate additionally in front of the hearth. I'll probably lay down a fire-resistant/ember rug either way.

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[begreen]

Can you post a picture of this setup? Right now, from the way I am visualizing it based on this and the other thread, the VL 17 wouldn't work. It is top vent only. It would require a liner and a hole punched in above the fireplace opening unless the opening is over 36" high. We also need the fire place opening dimensions and how large an area is being heated.

Taking the cheapest approach can have some serious compromises for safety. From all that has been said here so far, the best bet may be to just use the heatilator until the remodel is done. Or try to find a decent used EPA insert. That seems like the lowest cost option so far.

edit: no need to post. I dug up the July thread that shows the space. Get a new insert if you intend to do this right and permanently. Or try to find a decent used insert that is safe to burn in. The dimensions of the fireplace opening (front and back) would still be helpful.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/56841/

 

[emt1581]

Can you post a picture of this setup? Right now, from the way I am visualizing it based on this and the other thread, the VL 17 wouldn't work. It is top vent only. It would require a liner and a hole punched in above the fireplace opening unless the opening is over 36" high. We also need the fire place opening dimensions and how large an area is being heated.

Taking the cheapest approach can have some serious compromises for safety. From all that has been said here so far, the best bet may be to just use the heatilator until the remodel is done. Or try to find a decent used EPA insert. That seems like the lowest cost option so far.

Oh I forgot about the vent issue. Good point!

Can't post decent pics but a quick question...can I pull the brass/face of the fireplace (with the glass doors) away from the brick and put it right back or is it glued or attached some other way? I know I need to get measurements, I just don't want to do anything that won't let me use the fireplace afterward.

Rather than guess, I'll wait and do it right as far as measurements.

As far as the area, the immediate area is a 12x15 outcove but the main area of the room is around 25x15. But there are also 2 other rooms which will add another few hundred square feet.

I'm not looking to go as cheap as possible, otherwise I'd have bought a Vogelzang and been done with it. But after reading, it just wouldn't be a smart move. And for a stove this size, I don't think $800 is unrealistic for a safe/simple/efficient setup.

Let me know about the fireplace face and I'll get back with the measurements ASAP!

EDIT: Yup, that was it. Post 62 has the pics. For those just joining us it's the knotty pine pics that are of the space in question.

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[emt1581]

25" H x 34" W....instead of monkeying around with the clamps for the face I just crawled on my back and inside the fireplace.

So are there ANY stoves low enough to use?

What about if I built a hearth in front of the current hearth on the floor? I know every single stove is different but would ANY work that way?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[begreen]

There are stoves, not many, but none even close to the $800 figure. An insert is perhaps the best option here, but a decent one is going to cost much more than $800. Considering this is temporary and the low budget, I'd just use the fireplace this winter and bask in the warmth of the new unit upstairs next year. This is not the best time to be looking for cheap stove deals unless you can find a good insert that fits from someone that is upgrading.

 

[tickbitty]

There's a couple whole threads on here of people who love their Vogelzang Colonials, an EPA compliant insert that would run you about $1000 (before the tax refund, after the tax refund it would end up around $700)
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/47171/
Or for about the same price, you could get the Englander insert that is supposed to be quite good. It's the same as the 13 but it's an insert.
http://overstockstoves.com/50tnc13i--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1550131500.html

 

[emt1581]

There are stoves, not many, but none even close to the $800 figure. An insert is perhaps the best option here, but a decent one is going to cost much more than $800. Considering this is temporary and the low budget, I'd just use the fireplace this winter and bask in the warmth of the new unit upstairs next year. This is not the best time to be looking for cheap stove deals unless you can find a good insert that fits from someone that is upgrading.

Which stoves are you thinking that would be the size I need but a lot more than $800? I'm just curious to see why there are plenty of stoves under $800 but ones with a lower height are that much more expensive?

Since I started educating myself about stoves/inserts a few months ago, inserts haven't thrilled me because you need electricity to push some of the heat out and, similar to a fireplace, a lot of the heat goes up the chimney when compared to a stove.

Something else I thought about...when I was looking at soapstone stoves, some had a flue in the rear rather than on top and some were even reversible. Is that something we might have overlooked here or do no smaller stoves have such a thing?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[emt1581]

There's a couple whole threads on here of people who love their Vogelzang Colonials, an EPA compliant insert that would run you about $1000 (before the tax refund, after the tax refund it would end up around $700)
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/47171/
Or for about the same price, you could get the Englander insert that is supposed to be quite good. It's the same as the 13 but it's an insert.
http://overstockstoves.com/50tnc13i--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1550131500.html

Holy crap!! Most of the Vogelzang stoves that Northern Tool caries are $200-$600...then I started looking at this Colonial model...$1300-ish!! I know you say some are happy but just reading up on people's experiences with the brand in general they aren't what I'd call well-liked.

That's something I've noticed about inserts. There reallyaren't any cheap ones. Stoves can be had for $100 and change...not that they are the best quality or even safe...but they're out there. I think the cheapest insert I've seen was around $950. I'm not well versed in stoves/inserts to know the reasoning for the huge price difference though. Only thing I can think of is that an insert needs the technology of a fan worked into the mix.

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[tickbitty]

I think inserts might be more expensive in general just because there are fewer choices, as brother bart on here says, what is a woodstove really but a fire in a box? So any number of people can make boxes of varying style, quality and safety, in which to contain a fire. The prices will vary accordingly. But I guess with the inserts there's at least a little more involved, in that they are usually shrouded with heat shields, and yes, a blower, to keep the heat going forward instead of back and up. Avalon stoves are neat because the freestanding stoves and inserts are pretty much the same thing, you can pull it out as much as you want onto the hearth or push it back, it's all the same. But those are not as cheap as the other two I mentioned up there.

There was another person on here last night looking for stoves with a very low flue exit, not sure what all she found. You might want to check that thread out. I believe there are other stoves with the rear exit, but I don't know which ones offhand.

 

[emt1581]

I think inserts might be more expensive in general just because there are fewer choices, as brother bart on here says, what is a woodstove really but a fire in a box? So any number of people can make boxes of varying style, quality and safety, in which to contain a fire. The prices will vary accordingly. But I guess with the inserts there's at least a little more involved, in that they are usually shrouded with heat shields, and yes, a blower, to keep the heat going forward instead of back and up. Avalon stoves are neat because the freestanding stoves and inserts are pretty much the same thing, you can pull it out as much as you want onto the hearth or push it back, it's all the same. But those are not as cheap as the other two I mentioned up there.

There was another person on here last night looking for stoves with a very low flue exit, not sure what all she found. You might want to check that thread out. I believe there are other stoves with the rear exit, but I don't know which ones offhand.

I appreciate the info. I'll do some digging.

If I could find one in my price range with a rear flue, I think that would solve my problem...at least as far as the flue is concerned.

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[tickbitty]

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200442426_200442426

 

[emt1581]

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200442426_200442426

Hmm....$870 OTD... if the stove idea is definitely bust, and I can't find any used inserts cheap and in good shape...that one might end up in my fireplace.

Thanks for the link!

-Emt1581

 

[North of 60]

The only problem with that one is that the door handle is on the wrong side.

 

[emt1581]

The only problem with that one is that the door handle is on the wrong side.

...but I'm a lefty.

-Emt1581

 

[North of 60]

The only problem with that one is that the door handle is on the wrong side.

...but I'm a lefty.

-Emt1581

Looks like you have had a long day with all your posts and you still have a scence of humor. ;-)
Good for you.
If the dimensions work for your fireplace then it should be good for you. Do really think about a full liner though. Cleaning without it will be a PITA. + without having a full liner and burning the questionable wood you are still trying to buy will even make the build up worse.
My 2 cents on your situation.
Cheers.

 

[emt1581]

The only problem with that one is that the door handle is on the wrong side.

...but I'm a lefty.

-Emt1581

Looks like you have had a long day with all your posts and you still have a scence of humor. ;-)
Good for you.
If the dimensions work for your fireplace then it should be good for you. Do really think about a full liner though. Cleaning without it will be a PITA. + without having a full liner and burning the questionable wood you are still trying to buy will even make the build up worse.
My 2 cents on your situation.
Cheers.

Actually I was going to ask about that...the buildup. I'm just curious to see if any of the die-hard hearth members actually sweep their own chimneys. I'm guessing a search would answer that question though.

I figure full lined or not I'm going to be paying a few hundred every few years to get it sweeped anyways right?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[North of 60]

The only problem with that one is that the door handle is on the wrong side.

...but I'm a lefty.

-Emt1581

Looks like you have had a long day with all your posts and you still have a scence of humor. ;-)
Good for you.
If the dimensions work for your fireplace then it should be good for you. Do really think about a full liner though. Cleaning without it will be a PITA. + without having a full liner and burning the questionable wood you are still trying to buy will even make the build up worse.
My 2 cents on your situation.
Cheers.

Actually I was going to ask about that...the buildup. I'm just curious to see if any of the die-hard hearth members actually sweep their own chimneys. I'm guessing a search would answer that question though.

I figure full lined or not I'm going to be paying a few hundred every few years to get it sweeped anyways right?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

I would say the majority brushes there own chimney here on this forum. What is a sweep anyway?
You should be sweeping more than that if your burn practices are not up to snuff along with your wood quality. Could be monthly if your set up is not ideal?
Is your masonry interior or exterior?

 

[emt1581]

The only problem with that one is that the door handle is on the wrong side.

...but I'm a lefty.

-Emt1581

Looks like you have had a long day with all your posts and you still have a scence of humor. ;-)
Good for you.
If the dimensions work for your fireplace then it should be good for you. Do really think about a full liner though. Cleaning without it will be a PITA. + without having a full liner and burning the questionable wood you are still trying to buy will even make the build up worse.
My 2 cents on your situation.
Cheers.

Actually I was going to ask about that...the buildup. I'm just curious to see if any of the die-hard hearth members actually sweep their own chimneys. I'm guessing a search would answer that question though.

I figure full lined or not I'm going to be paying a few hundred every few years to get it sweeped anyways right?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

I would say the majority brushes there own chimney here on this forum. What is a sweep anyway?
You should be sweeping more than that if your burn practices are not up to snuff along with your wood quality. Could be monthly if your set up is not ideal?
Is your masonry interior or exterior?

Seriously? Most "brush" their own chimney?? Great!! Another thing I get to research the crap out of!!

In terms of my fireplace it's not in the middle of a room but the odd thing is that it's the only one I've ever seen that is actually built out from the wall. That is, if your looking at it, it's angled into the room from the outside. So one side is a foot or two thicker than the other but you'd only know that if you went outside and looked at the chimney then came in and looked at the fireplace. But to answer your question...exterior I believe. Why do you ask?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[North of 60]

Seriously? Most "brush" their own chimney?? Great!! Another thing I get to research the crap out of!!

In terms of my fireplace it's not in the middle of a room but the odd thing is that it's the only one I've ever seen that is actually built out from the wall. That is, if your looking at it, it's angled into the room from the outside. So one side is a foot or two thicker than the other but you'd only know that if you went outside and looked at the chimney then came in and looked at the fireplace. But to answer your question...exterior I believe. Why do you ask?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

Exterior means it is exposed to the cold air at least from one to 3 sides. Cold anything causes condensing. Your flue gasses then are affected by less draft in a colder area for a longer time. Depending on your cross sectional area of your chimney. This condensing is what creates creosote. Since this will not be your 24/7 burner, it will have a lot of cold starts with more chances of deposits until you can heat that mass up. Sometimes people cant and the masonry is one big heat sink. Wood moisture content plays a big roll here. Wet wood gives poopy secondaries which = no heat which leaves deposites. It all compounds. One helps the other in a positive or negative way.
What is your flue size anyway?

 

[emt1581]

Seriously? Most "brush" their own chimney?? Great!! Another thing I get to research the crap out of!!

In terms of my fireplace it's not in the middle of a room but the odd thing is that it's the only one I've ever seen that is actually built out from the wall. That is, if your looking at it, it's angled into the room from the outside. So one side is a foot or two thicker than the other but you'd only know that if you went outside and looked at the chimney then came in and looked at the fireplace. But to answer your question...exterior I believe. Why do you ask?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

Exterior means it is exposed to the cold air at least from one to 3 sides. Cold anything causes condensing. Your flue gasses then are affected by less draft in a colder area for a longer time. Depending on your cross sectional area of your chimney. This condensing is what creates creosote. Since this will not be your 24/7 burner, it will have a lot of cold starts with more chances of deposits until you can heat that mass up. Sometimes people cant and the masonry is one big heat sink. Wood moisture content plays a big roll here. Wet wood gives poopy secondaries which = no heat which leaves deposites. It all compounds. One helps the other in a positive or negative way.
What is your flue size anyway?

Haven't climbed up to the top yet. But the flue/pipe that I can see (the one that's not utilized in the fireplace) looks to be between 6 and 8 inches in diameter.

-Emt1581

 

[Shari]

I figure full lined or not I'm going to be paying a few hundred every few years to get it sweeped anyways right?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

Learned here at hearth.com: Sweep at least twice per burning season. Sweep every other month the first year you are a new wood burner is best.

Shari

 

[emt1581]

Well I found a used Osburn insert that'll fit my fireplace....for $500!

I need to make sure it's running and doesn't have any issues but otherwise, seems like this will work if I can't figure out a stove solution in the next day or two.

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[emt1581]

Well I just got off the phone with the installer. It'd be $600 for the install/delivery and then another $600 for the line.

While it sounds like a reasonable estimate for the work, it sort of blows my $800 figure out of the water. So most likely I'll just stick with a fireplace this year and get a nice stove upstairs next year.

I do appreciate all the replies though!! And if someone can think of a way to cheapen things up a bit (which I know is HIGHLY frowned upon in this forum)...by all means, share your thoughts.

Thanks again!!

-Emt1581