When do you load more wood?

[Ashful]

I have never heard that before I find myself doing this more then once in a while. Sometimes I try and keep the stove top temp at 600 and will toss a split in when it drop to 500 or below. I have never had an issue but that doesn't mean I wouldn't. Any reason on why this is a good rule of thumb?

Non-cat EPA stoves like the OP's Jotul, due to their requirement to maintain high combustion temperatures for clean burning, cannot be shut down as far as other types of stoves. This provides a very real chance of "run-away", which you can read all about here. Hot loading a non-cat can be done, but you must be careful in how you bring it up and lower the air, 'lest you find yourself in the presence of a glowing stove. Most find it's easier and more predictable to wait until you hit some threshold lid temperature (aforementioned 300F) to load.

 

[Matt93eg]

Depends on conditions. If its 35-40 I don't have to reload as often, When it is down in the 20s like it is right now I have to reload more often.

 

[Lloyd the redneck]

It's a balmy -14 this morning out here. Reloading at the 2.5 hour mark!


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[jcapler]

Non-cat EPA stoves like the OP's Jotul, due to their requirement to maintain high combustion temperatures for clean burning, cannot be shut down as far as other types of stoves. This provides a very real chance of "run-away", which you can read all about here. Hot loading a non-cat can be done, but you must be careful in how you bring it up and lower the air, 'lest you find yourself in the presence of a glowing stove. Most find it's easier and more predictable to wait until you hit some threshold lid temperature (aforementioned 300F) to load.

That makes sense, I appreciate the explanation as well. I have yet to have a "run-away" but i have had the stove top up past the 750F mark. Quick air adjustment and I was back to the 600F mark that I try and keep it around. I know every stove is different but what does your stove run for a top temp when it is in the sweet zone?

 

[Ashful]

That makes sense, I appreciate the explanation as well. I have yet to have a "run-away" but i have had the stove top up past the 750F mark. Quick air adjustment and I was back to the 600F mark that I try and keep it around. I know every stove is different but what does your stove run for a top temp when it is in the sweet zone?

I'm running a cat stove, which is a steel box surrounded by a cast iron convection jacket. On top of that convection jacket it's only 230 - 250F on the stove I run harder (12 hour cycles), but I'm sure the steel box hiding below is much warmer. Cat cruises around 1000F.

 

[jharkin]

Non-cat EPA stoves like the OP's Jotul, due to their requirement to maintain high combustion temperatures for clean burning, cannot be shut down as far as other types of stoves. This provides a very real chance of "run-away", which you can read all about here. Hot loading a non-cat can be done, but you must be careful in how you bring it up and lower the air, 'lest you find yourself in the presence of a glowing stove. Most find it's easier and more predictable to wait until you hit some threshold lid temperature (aforementioned 300F) to load.

Hot loading a catalytic stove isn't a good idea either. The couple times I tried it both led to a catalyst temp runaway over 1800F.

I never reload until it's down to coals and the cat temp is below 800. I've learned to pay attention to both inside temp and outside temp and judge how much wood to load based on how many hours burn I want to get till the next reload.

 

[BradleyW]

I load when there are coals, and I want more heat. Stove can be anywhere from 200-400. If it's cold and I'm pushing the stove I'll take some ash/coal out of the stove to make room for wood. If it's not that cold and I want to lengthen the time between reloads I'll bank a load of coals for later. I think that has much less potential to cause creosote formation than throwing a couple splits in and closing up the stove.

 

[kennyp2339]

Of course you can put wood in a 400deg stove, just make sure your air is open all the way to reduce the pressure of the flash over (rapid smoke lite off) that's what that little explosion is. If the air is opened then you wont have a problem, people get those explosions / back puffs/ back drafts when the stove is chocked down but the fuel is at lite off temp, just not enough O2 to sustain flames.

 

[tarzan]

Hot loading a catalytic stove isn't a good idea either. The couple times I tried it both led to a catalyst temp runaway over 1800F.

I never reload until it's down to coals and the cat temp is below 800. I've learned to pay attention to both inside temp and outside temp and judge how much wood to load based on how many hours burn I want to get till the next reload.

Depends on the stove. There's a couple pages on the BK thread now about hot reloading procedures and while there is some discussion on the nuances, cat runaway hasn't even came up.

With the tube stove I used to have I would wait until stove top temps were below 400*F. Any hotter than that it was basically a coin toss on whether or not I could stop it at 700*F.

 

[venator260]

In my NC30 I reloaded yesterday anytime the stove went below 400 degrees, and was opening up the air to keep it burning. This amounted to a reload every 4-5 hours. I reloaded every time on a substantial bed of coals.

I did have an issue before bed, but I used 3 of the compressed wood blocks from Tractor supply as well as two very dry spits. Temps climbed into the 780's, so I had to turn the key damper about half way closed to settle it down. This was also with the coldest outside temps that I have had this stove with (~18 degrees).

 

[jharkin]

Depends on the stove. There's a couple pages on the BK thread now about hot reloading procedures and while there is some discussion on the nuances, cat runaway hasn't even came up.

With the tube stove I used to have I would wait until stove top temps were below 400*F. Any hotter than that it was basically a coin toss on whether or not I could stop it at 700*F.

Blaze Kings are a special breed that defy all known laws of physics. Probably secretly developed in a parallel universe where gravity is reversed and time flows sideways, and then brought to earth through the secret wormhole at CERN.



For all other stoves... beware...

 

[firefighterjake]

. . . When I'm cold. (Short answer)

. . . When I've reached the coaling stage (Longer answer)

. . . Depends -- almost always when I've reached the coaling stage, but it depends on my heating needs. Normally I wait until the coals are the size of plums or baseballs, but when it's super cold outside I'll reload a little earlier in the coaling stage (perhaps the size of softballs). (Even longer answer)

 

[Sawset]

Of course you can put wood in a 400deg stove, just make sure your air is open all the way to reduce the pressure of the flash over (rapid smoke lite off) that's what that little explosion is. If the air is opened then you wont have a problem, people get those explosions / back puffs/ back drafts when the stove is chocked down but the fuel is at lite off temp, just not enough O2 to sustain flames.

And close the door slowly to give it some time to adjust.

 

[kennyp2339]

then brought to earth through the secret wormhole at CERN

I got a kitten out of that lol

 

[Ashful]

Hot loading a catalytic stove isn't a good idea either. The couple times I tried it both led to a catalyst temp runaway over 1800F.

I had similar problems with the Jotuls, which were downdraft cat stoves like yours. The issue is getting the wood charge going well enough to get light-off without stalling a cold cat (downdraft design), without letting it get such a head of steam going that it sends the cat temp into orbit. The BK design of having the above and passively in the exhaust path during bypass, shared by several other modern stoves (I believe), allows you to engage much sooner, and keep things under control. The other issue with my Jotuls, which I believe is shared by your VC's, is the cat is very small for the size of the firebox. The modern Woodstocks and BK's run almost exactly double the cat cross section, compared to the old Jotuls, and this really helps keep cat temps more reasonable.

 

[jcapler]

All this talk about cat stoves had me looking into them. Can't someone give me an idea of burn times. I was looking at the Blake King and the Ashford 20 and 30 say a burn time of 20 and 30 hours. Do I not understand this or am I not reading this correctly. Times like this would make me consider replacing at the beginning of the year. Can someone set me straight on this?


Woodpro WS-TS-2000

 

[begreen]

There is a very long posting here for all things Blaze King. Burn time will depend on the size of the wood load and how big the demand for heat is. But yes an Ashford or Sirocco 30 will burn for 12 to 24 hrs depending on how hard it's pushed. In mild weather when the demand for heat is low, the Blaze King King can provide low heat for up to 40hrs. on a full belly of fuel. The stove glass will be black, but it will heat that long.

 

[jcapler]

Wow. I would love to get 12 plus hours of heat, granted our old windows and poor insulation don't help our current situation. Plan is to get windows done next summer so maybe I would see an increase in heat from our current setup.
So is moving from a secondary burn stove to a cat stove a whole new mindset and skills?


Woodpro WS-TS-2000

 

[begreen]

Invest in insulation. Window improvements often result in little more gain than good removable storm windows can accomplish.

 

[jcapler]

Yeah insulation has been mostly done. We have all the attics done this last summer. We need to have the walls blown in when we do new siding. Windows will hopefully be this spring.


Woodpro WS-TS-2000

 

[jharkin]

I had similar problems with the Jotuls, which were downdraft cat stoves like yours. The issue is getting the wood charge going well enough to get light-off without stalling a cold cat (downdraft design), without letting it get such a head of steam going that it sends the cat temp into orbit. The BK design of having the above and passively in the exhaust path during bypass, shared by several other modern stoves (I believe), allows you to engage much sooner, and keep things under control. The other issue with my Jotuls, which I believe is shared by your VC's, is the cat is very small for the size of the firebox. The modern Woodstocks and BK's run almost exactly double the cat cross section, compared to the old Jotuls, and this really helps keep cat temps more reasonable.

Yeah, we've discussed this in the past... agreed that the downdraft is just a problematic design and its always going to be a fight. The VC actaully has a pretty good sized catalyst - much larger than the one in your Jotul - but still suffers all the other flaws you mention.

Yeah insulation has been mostly done. We have all the attics done this last summer. We need to have the walls blown in when we do new siding. Windows will hopefully be this spring.


Woodpro WS-TS-2000

Don't bother replacing your windows unless they are failing beyond any hope of repair or you just want to do it for comfort/style. Even the best new window money can buy is not going to cut your heating bill enough to pay back the install cost in your lifetime. Lots of research to back this up, which the window replacement companies (not surprisingly) dont want you to see.

 

[Ashful]

All this talk about cat stoves had me looking into them. Can't someone give me an idea of burn times. I was looking at the Blake King and the Ashford 20 and 30 say a burn time of 20 and 30 hours. Do I not understand this or am I not reading this correctly. Times like this would make me consider replacing at the beginning of the year. Can someone set me straight on this?


Woodpro WS-TS-2000

A few weeks ago I loaded my BK Ashford 30 at 6pm, and at 6am the catalytic combuster was still hovering on the edge of the Active region, and the stove was putting out good heat. My room was 71F, and outside temperatures ranged from upper 20F's to mid 40F's during the period.

Nothing special, until you realize I loaded the stove at 6pm TUESDAY, and the quoted temperatures were at 6am on THURSDAY.

I usually set the thermostat on that stove to a rate that will give me a good 24 hour burn, but I have no trouble getting 30 - 36 hours of heat out of it, on the lowest settings. These very low settings are not going to heat your house when it's 16F outside (unless you have an exceptional house), but they're wonderful for those long periods in October-November, and March-May, when temperatures are more moderate.

 

[jetsam]

I was looking at the Blake King and the Ashford 20 and 30 say a burn time of 20 and 30 hours. Do I not understand this or am I not reading this correctly.

It's all true, but it's not magic. BK stoves don't make more heat than comparable cat stoves, they can just burn a lot lower than anybody else. I can get 24 hours plus out of my little 2.2 cf firebox in shoulder season when not much heat is needed. When it's cold, I do 12 hour burns when I'm at work and shorter ones when I'm home.

 

[NoobTube]

I'm thinking right now with the temps in the 30's I'm going to switch over to 2 reloads per day. Once it dips into the 20's I'll go back to the 3 reloads per day. Currently with temps in the low 30's and 3 reloads in my house. The stove room is in the 80's, the first floor and second floor are between 72-73.

My 3 reload schedule is:
6AM with a 30-45min open burn to get up to aroudn 650-700*F stove temp. Then close air off and put fan on low
5:30PM Load open air same process as above
10PM Same process as above.

 

[jharkin]

A few weeks ago I loaded my BK Ashford 30 at 6pm, and at 6am the catalytic combuster was still hovering on the edge of the Active region, and the stove was putting out good heat. My room was 71F, and outside temperatures ranged from upper 20F's to mid 40F's during the period.

Nothing special, until you realize I loaded the stove at 6pm TUESDAY, and the quoted temperatures were at 6am on THURSDAY.

I usually set the thermostat on that stove to a rate that will give me a good 24 hour burn, but I have no trouble getting 30 - 36 hours of heat out of it, on the lowest settings. These very low settings are not going to heat your house when it's 16F outside (unless you have an exceptional house), but they're wonderful for those long periods in October-November, and March-May, when temperatures are more moderate.

LIke I said, Blaze Kings come from an alternate reality.


These burn times are simply outstanding - Most other stoves would barely have enough colls left to reload at 6am the next day, much less an active cat 2 days later. I think the longest Ive seen the cat stay active on a full load in my stove (closer ins size to a BK 20) is about 6-8 hours.. Ive never seen it really active (1000+) more than about 4 hours.