What to buy? Summit or BK Princess

[snoguzzler]

Hi everyone. I've been lurking on here for a month or so. I've been doing research on a new wood stove. I've gotten quotes from 2 local dealers one has a BKPrincess and the other the PE Summit. I can't make up my mind. Can anyone help me please?
Some info about me. My house is a raised bungalo. 1350' up and down well insulated 20 years old. Currently there is a gampa bear Fisher in the basement. We have a clay lined chimney and I realize I need to upgrade to a stainless liner. We have a vent to the main floor as well as a stairwell not far from the stove. The fisher works great but does burn alot of wood. We have a forced air electric furnace that is only used when we are away for a weekend etc.
Right now we start the stove around 4pm. We keep it going till bed time (10pm). It is usually hot as hell down stairs and hot upstairs by then. It cools down over night as the fire dies but is usually still 70 plus upstairs in the morning. We head off to work and the cycle begins anew that afternoon.
I've read on here that the BK will burn longer and be more managable but i'm worried that once it is started do we need to keep it going 24hrs aday. If we let it go out how long will it take to get the house back up to temp? I'm thinking that the Summit will work more like the Fisher only the heat won't be quite as hot and the fire will last a little longer. I'm also a little bit afraid of replacing the cat in the BK.
help!

 

[madison]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/45981/

 

[MovingOffGrid]

As your stove is in the basement (guessing ground floor), one thing that is likely keeping your upstairs warm, is your masonry chimney and its thermal mass. Especially if it's central. Once you put in steel pipe inside your chimney, you will lose a good deal of that thermal mass heat, so you may have to find a way to drive more heat upstairs.

The Summit (I use my Summit nicely on my 6x10 masonry flue) will put more heat up the chimney than the BK princess Cat, but once you put in the steel pipe, that won't matter much, as the pipe will draft well on both stoves. You just need to be aware that you may be losing some of your upstairs heat from the radiance of the chimney with that Fisher (which dumps a ton of heat up the chimney).

Your other questions regarding how long the Princess will take to get up to temp I can't answer, but I don't think it will be too different that the Summit.

Summit pros - powerful heat machine, great looking secondary burn light show and nicer looking stove.
Summit cons - doesn't burn as long as the Princess - some seem to have few weld issues cropping up but jury still out as to cause.

Princess pros - Great long burn time - more controllable heat output - likely uses a little less wood, especially when maintaining low burn
Cons - plain jane look - poor secondary burn light show - window stays dirty when stove is idling - costs more - CAT cost for replacement

both are nice stoves, but if looks aren't important to you, and you don't care if you watch the light show regularly, and you have the extra money to spend and don't mind the cost of a new Cat every 5+/- years, and you want 10 to 20 hour burn times on dry hardwood, then I would lean BK Princess.

 

[Wacky1]

[quote author="MovingOffGrid" date="1258516402"]As your stove is in the basement (guessing ground floor), one thing that is likely keeping your upstairs warm, is your masonry chimney and its thermal mass. Especially if it's central. Once you put in steel pipe inside your chimney, you will lose a good deal of that thermal mass heat, so you may have to find a way to drive more heat upstairs.

The Summit (I use my Summit nicely on my 6x10 masonry flue) will put more heat up the chimney than the BK princess Cat, but once you put in the steel pipe, that won't matter much, as the pipe will draft well on both stoves. You just need to be aware that you may be losing some of your upstairs heat from the radiance of the chimney with that Fisher (which dumps a ton of heat up the chimney).

Your other questions regarding how long the Princess will take to get up to temp I can't answer, but I don't think it will be too different that the Summit.

Summit pros - powerful heat machine, great looking secondary burn light show and nicer looking stove.
Summit cons - doesn't burn as long as the Princess - some seem to have few weld issues cropping up but jury still out as to cause.

Princess pros - Great long burn time - more controllable heat output - likely uses a little less wood, especially when maintaining low burn
Cons - plain jane look - poor secondary burn light show - window stays dirty when stove is idling - costs more - CAT cost for replacement

both are nice stoves, but if looks aren't important to you, and you don't care if you watch the light show regularly, and you have the extra money to spend and don't mind the cost of a new Cat every 5+/- years, and you want 10 to 20 hour burn times on dry hardwood, then I would lean BK Princess.[/quote


Dont forget the Summit is cheaper and, I'm not sure but I think, carries a better warranty. ;-)

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Either one will burn a lot less wood go a long way toward evening out the heating and cooling cycles of you house.

 

[summit]

completely biased opinion here, but go for the summit.. any Cat stoves are high maintainence and soot up your chimney more. (now i'll wait for all the BK guys to start telling me I'm wrong...)

 

[Todd]

Where are those BK guys? They are letting the PE guys run away with this thread. Personally I would be a little leary of the Summit just cuz of the recent cracked welds that were posted in a recent thread. Something aint right there. Looks, yeah the PE wins hands down, performance I'd have to go with the BK because of the thermostat control, higher efficiency and longer burns.

 

[SolarAndWood]

Right now we start the stove around 4pm. We keep it going till bed time (10pm). It is usually hot as hell down stairs and hot upstairs by then. It cools down over night as the fire dies but is usually still 70 plus upstairs in the morning. We head off to work and the cycle begins anew that afternoon.
I've read on here that the BK will burn longer and be more managable but i'm worried that once it is started do we need to keep it going 24hrs aday. If we let it go out how long will it take to get the house back up to temp?

That was kind of our cycle with our old stove. With the BK, we load it up and let the thermostat do its thing. The house stays a much more consistent temperature and I think we have started 3 fires since October 1. If an 8" flue is doable, the bigger firebox in the king buys you a lot of burn flexibility yet still burns low enough to use 24/7 this time of year.

 

[learnin to burn]

I started to answer earlier but figured the other thread would help him out. That being said - Summit - I think you are correct only if burning incorrectly, burning wet wood in a cat will soot things up pretty quick but it will do the same in a non cat too. If you burn correctly and maintain the stove right then a cat can last a lot longer than 5 years. Ask North of 60 he posted something about his longevity a few days ago. As for heating up quickly - I'm heating 3000 sq ft from the basement and can raise the temp in my upstairs 4-6 degrees in under 2 hours from a cold stove and that is with wood that isn't really dry enough. (20% -24% moister)

Snoguzzler - Short and sweet - You won't go wrong with a BK King or Princess...

 

[begreen]

Where are those BK guys? They are letting the PE guys run away with this thread. Personally I would be a little leary of the Summit just cuz of the recent cracked welds that were posted in a recent thread. Something aint right there. Looks, yeah the PE wins hands down, performance I'd have to go with the BK because of the thermostat control, higher efficiency and longer burns.

Cheerleading? Seems this has been hashed out enough, on all sides. The rest is repetition.

 

[Todd]

Where are those BK guys? They are letting the PE guys run away with this thread. Personally I would be a little leary of the Summit just cuz of the recent cracked welds that were posted in a recent thread. Something aint right there. Looks, yeah the PE wins hands down, performance I'd have to go with the BK because of the thermostat control, higher efficiency and longer burns.

Cheerleading? Seems this has been hashed out enough, on all sides. The rest is repetition.

Fair and balanced

 

[begreen]

Oy, please don't remind me of that byline.

Though this thread is fresher, this subject has been discussed ad nauseum this season. Please use the search function.

 

[learnin to burn]

I tried to let it be...I really did :coolhmm:

 

[Wet1]

I think our mods have cat envy. :cheese:

 

[snoguzzler]

Thanks for all your help guys. I have read most of the threads on here reguarding this debate including the one pointed out. I guess I was hoping to hear from someone who had my set up and how happy they are with their decission. To asnwer a couple questions. My chimney is outside the house so I'm not getting any heat from it. And yes the stove is in the basement which is about 4' below grade. The prices i've been quoted are $3000 for the Princess (total 4701.43 installed with liner) and $2160 (total 4185 including the liner) for the Summit.
So if I can sum up what i've learned the Bk will burn longer with a more controlled heat but doesnt look as good and requires the cat to be changed. The summit burns hotter but not as long, is cheaper, no maintence. I'm not real worried about the looks.
I guess the question then has to be how many years does it take to recoup the extra expense of the BK through savings in wood and labour and is the heat controll really that good? I do get most of my wood for free - cutting dead falls in the woods behind the house but I guess the whole reason for this update is to burn less wood which means less manual labour.

 

[learnin to burn]

Hands down IMHO the cost difference will be recouped in the first season. It will be made up by the time spent feeding the stove, processing wood, and how often the main heat in the house pops on. If you have a free wood supply the total cost of the BK and install should be recouped in under 4 season. With a basement install you will want an OAK with either of the stoves so that needs to be considered too.

 

[iceman]

Thanks for all your help guys. I have read most of the threads on here reguarding this debate including the one pointed out. I guess I was hoping to hear from someone who had my set up and how happy they are with their decission. To asnwer a couple questions. My chimney is outside the house so I'm not getting any heat from it. And yes the stove is in the basement which is about 4' below grade. The prices i've been quoted are $3000 for the Princess (total 4701.43 installed with liner) and $2160 (total 4185 including the liner) for the Summit.
So if I can sum up what i've learned the Bk will burn longer with a more controlled heat but doesnt look as good and requires the cat to be changed. The summit burns hotter but not as long, is cheaper, no maintence. I'm not real worried about the looks.
I guess the question then has to be how many years does it take to recoup the extra expense of the BK through savings in wood and labour and is the heat controll really that good? I do get most of my wood for free - cutting dead falls in the woods behind the house but I guess the whole reason for this update is to burn less wood which means less manual labour.

not so fast, most people burn their summits n/s.... so the burn times are prolly n/s times i tried burning e/w with my summit.... WOW! is all i can say ....i am using less wood (i think) because with n/s i was loading a little higher than the bricks sometimes... now i am a little less, but i am using smaller splits but they seem to pack tighter ... and i was doing a 10 hr burn... now i am getting longer burns ... i filled her up at 12 hrs today... with more than enough coals .. and my stove was 350 on r/side 300 on l/side if you can imagine 8 small splits 2 rows of 4 e/w .... i loaded up at 915 its almost 11 now.... 1 split has now broken to coals in the middle temp is at 600r/side 575 l/side and the split on top is burning the other 6 are not ..... i have prolly have peaked at 600 maybe i will get to 650/675 but to only go down 300 degrees over the next 10 hrs ... i'll take it
cat wise its hard to compete a summit with a bk..... but for most applications either way will work... i would love a bk but, but, but , i do like people to see my work.... so when company comes and those secondaries are going crazy! people just stop and stare....... whoa what is tht!! you dont get the wow factor with a bk.....in basement who cares i guess but in my living room------SUMMIT........in my basement......prolly gonna be an equinox or a t6 (thts where i do most of my entertaining)

But.... either way you will be happy!

 

[snoguzzler]

What is an OAK? I tried a search but it brought up a ton of threads reguarding oak trees.

 

[Todd]

Outside combustion air kit. That's another whole can of worms.

 

[learnin to burn]

Outside Air Kit -

I forgot Yes The T-stat control is that good. And as iceman stated about n/s loading the same is true for the BK, most load n/s, Lanning just stated he uses e/w loading. I have tried that too and will be doing more of it in the future especially when I load my real large pieces. I can't speak for lannings burn times but my E/W loads with small splits I had a 17 hour burn time with the stove on 2.5 which really impressed me.

Burn time = Fresh load to fresh load

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Thanks for all your help guys. I have read most of the threads on here reguarding this debate including the one pointed out. I guess I was hoping to hear from someone who had my set up and how happy they are with their decission. To asnwer a couple questions. My chimney is outside the house so I'm not getting any heat from it. And yes the stove is in the basement which is about 4' below grade. The prices i've been quoted are $3000 for the Princess (total 4701.43 installed with liner) and $2160 (total 4185 including the liner) for the Summit.
So if I can sum up what i've learned the Bk will burn longer with a more controlled heat but doesnt look as good and requires the cat to be changed. The summit burns hotter but not as long, is cheaper, no maintence. I'm not real worried about the looks.
I guess the question then has to be how many years does it take to recoup the extra expense of the BK through savings in wood and labour and is the heat controll really that good? I do get most of my wood for free - cutting dead falls in the woods behind the house but I guess the whole reason for this update is to burn less wood which means less manual labour.

Another thing to bear in mind: while the Summit won't do the 20+ hour burns it does have a slightly larger firebox and will put off more heat. Also, 12+ burn times are within normal range for the Summit.

 

[Patapsco Mike]

To get a 12 hour burn in a Summit you need a fully and carefully packed firebox. You will put out a LOT of heat doing this- whether you need it or not. The BK can give you that 12 hour burn with just a 1/3 full firebox giving a little heat, or with a fully packed firebox putting out an amount of heat that is very similar to the Summit. This added flexibility is what sold me on the BK. Needing less room in my yard for wood, having to haul, split, stack, and carry less wood into my house less wood, and cutting the amount of time I spend mucking around with stove controls is nice too.

Money aside, think about how much work it is putting up a cord of wood. That takes me something like two days of cutting, splitting and stacking, and another day of work moving it to my house to burn. If I can use one less cord of wood a year, having this stove gives me three more days a year to go fishing and hunting! That is priceless.

Shop around and you can easily beat that $3K price- you should be able to find this stove for about $2,600 delivered.

 

[iceman]

To get a 12 hour burn in a Summit you need a fully and carefully packed firebox. You will put out a LOT of heat doing this- whether you need it or not. The BK can give you that 12 hour burn with just a 1/3 full firebox giving a little heat, or with a fully packed firebox putting out an amount of heat that is very similar to the Summit. This added flexibility is what sold me on the BK. Needing less room in my yard for wood, having to haul, split, stack, and carry less wood into my house less wood, and cutting the amount of time I spend mucking around with stove controls is nice too.

Money aside, think about how much work it is putting up a cord of wood. That takes me something like two days of cutting, splitting and stacking, and another day of work moving it to my house to burn. If I can use one less cord of wood a year, having this stove gives me three more days a year to go fishing and hunting! That is priceless.

Shop around and you can easily beat that $3K price- you should be able to find this stove for about $2,600 delivered.

how long of a burn do you get? i see someone with a classic got 17 hours... isnt a classic a bigger stove?
i believe the summit and princess are more in the same than a classic right?

you can control the output of a summit ... if i want a really hot burn i will shut down my air around 450-550 it will climb to 700 e/w 750-800 n/s but i like to close it around 3--400 it will go 6-650.... if i leave it open a little it will bring the numbers down... or simply use less fuel....

i think one thing we can agree on is they are both good stoves with good points..... i would base my decision
on

1) looks if i like it or not
2) what type an area am i heating
3) what are my insulation values and my climate
4) ease of operation .... is someone else going to use it

not in any order ... but if i lived some place where its brutal..... (north of 60) i would def go for bk for the bigger firebox..(classic)

if i lived somewhere it gets cold but its manageable i would care more about looking at it..

 

[begreen]

I think that's about right Mike. What would be most helpful to hear is what temperature the stove is after 12 hrs. With careful packing of hardwood, I can definitely have good coals for an easy restart after 12 hrs. However, the stove isn't really heating, it's just slightly warm at that point. I'll be running some loads of locust and cherry when it gets cold enough to see if I can better this, but that is what I am seeing so far.

There are only so many btus in a load of wood, regardless of the stove. The advantage of a good cat stove that it spreads the release of those btus over a longer time period. But whether it is 100,000 btus released over 10 hrs or over 16 hrs, it is still 100,000 btus. At the opposite end of the spectrum is how quickly (and safely) the stove can release those 100,000 btus. This is what you want when it's really cold outside or you are bring up a cold house's temp many degrees. There I would think because of the EBT feeding the secondaries, that the Summit might be more aggressive. But that's just conjecture. You'd need a lab to test this and I have neither a BK Princess nor a lab for a side-by-side comparison. Nor does any of the rest of us, except Corie.

For folks that need to have their stoves running all day long while they are at work, I think a well-made cat stove is a good choice. For folks that can work with about 8+ hrs of meaningful warmth and like a good fire view, then a non-cat is a good choice. Both have their place.

 

[Patapsco Mike]

I had meaningful heat still being produced after 12 hours with having only a few good hardwood logs in my fire to begin with. As in, the catalytic converter is still active after 12 hours. I only measured the stove top temp once in that situation, and it was 340 degrees on the top of the stove after 12 hours (using an infrared temp gun). The air being pumped by the blower was still very warm, more than enough for my shoulder season needs. In the winter I'll need to run the stove with more wood and more air, and then there will be minimal differences between the two stoves in burn time or wood used.