What exactly is “seasoned” wood?

[Bootstrap]

I have an abundance of Red and White Oak on my property. So much that I cannot throw a stone without hitting one of these trees. The problem is that my entire property is perched on the side of a mountain, completely surrounded by forest. I do not have any flat areas (other than my stone patio and deck) on the land, and there are virtually no areas that get abundant direct sunlight in the summertime due to the large canopy above us (60+ feet high). SOoooooo... I am concerned because the vast majority of my woodpile (1.5 cords so far) is made up of red oak that I was expecting to burn next winter. With not a lot of direct sunlight and only 10 or so months of seasoning, it does not sound like I am going to be free of these creosote headaches next year either.

I once heard that leaving your wood piles uncovered till the end of summer somehow seasons the wood faster. It was explained to me that the rain washes off the natural oils in the wood and allows the moisture to escape quicker.
Now, whether or not that's truth is up for debate.
But since I have stopped covering my piles till the end of September, I have cut, split and stacked wood as late as April, and burned that same wood in October without an issue. And that's only 6 months. And those piles don't see a lot, if any direct sunlight.

One thing you can do right away is remove the screen around the cap. Some do that during the burning season and then put it back on come spring. Screens are known to get clogged like that.

I get the idea but I don't see how these screens really stop sparks that theoretically make it all the way up the flue. The screen is quite large compared to a spark. My wood is tarped near the base of my chimney, there aren't any burn holes in it and I don't have a screen.

For a spark to come out of my chimney and make it all the way to the ground then ignite.... I have to say seems pretty unlikely. Cant say I've ever heard of it. Maybe a spark from a bon fire in the summer has the potential to start a fire. But in the cold season?

 

[Highbeam]

You said 1/4 of a centimeter in the pipe. That’s like 1/8” and only up at the top. This is normal. Your wood is not the problem, it’s that stupid filter on your chimney cap. Remove it or plan on regularly going up and cleaning it. Poke out all the holes with a screwdriver.

 

[black smoke signals]

After you sweep your chimney steel brush the hard cero and cap from the top then leave your cap on (county or city requirement) and buy a soot eater clean it from the bottom but go over size 2in on the plastic ends shove it up the pipe and let her rip once a month!

 

[Woody Stover]

I see recommendations to dry oak for up to 3 years...I have typically let mine dry for 9-12 months, and get moisture content between 17% and 20%. Maybe I am splitting thinner

I'd guess that's the case, since you don't live in a particularly dry climate. I split my Red Oak 4-6" and leave it split and stacked for three years to get it below 20%. I've tried it after two years and it's alright, but it really burns great at three years. I have a cat stove, and to cut the air low and sustain the burn, I want that three years. My stacks are in the woods as well. You might get by with less time, burning in your secondary stove, or if your stacks get more wind. I'm about five years ahead.

I have an abundance of Red and White Oak on my property. So much that I cannot throw a stone without hitting one of these trees. The problem is that my entire property is perched on the side of a mountain, completely surrounded by forest. I do not have any flat areas (other than my stone patio and deck) on the land, and there are virtually no areas that get abundant direct sunlight in the summertime due to the large canopy above us (60+ feet high). SOoooooo... I am concerned because the vast majority of my woodpile (1.5 cords so far) is made up of red oak that I was expecting to burn next winter.

Yep, a ton of Red and White here as well. The Reds here are much more likely to die than my other species, so that's mainly what I take. If your Oak is split small (4"), your stacks are single-row, covered, and get some wind, you might get away with it, although it won't be ideal. I don't think sun is as important as wind, ambient temp and humidity level. The sun may raise the temp of the wood a bit of course, but not all that much. If we get a hot, breezy, low-humidity summer like we did a few years back, that will help.

 

[Highbeam]

After you sweep your chimney steel brush the hard cero and cap from the top then leave your cap on (county or city requirement) and buy a soot eater clean it from the bottom but go over size 2in on the plastic ends shove it up the pipe and let her rip once a month!

What’s this jive about the filter being a city or county requirement? Very few places have such laws. They sell the caps without screens and many chimneys don’t even have caps! I don’t worry about sparks as much as floating chunks of cardboard if I was burning trash and if it was summer.

I might also be extra careful if my roof was made of cedar shakes!

So long as you CHOOSE to keep that filter on there just know that it requires maintenance.

 

[Firefighter938]

I am in Shelbyville and could probably help you out. I have plenty of well seasoned wood(split stacked 2-3yrs). Mostly ash, hackberry, mulberry, and cherry. Maybe we could make a trade, some seasoned ash for some of your wet oak. I have a hard time getting oak.

 

[bholler]

I once heard that leaving your wood piles uncovered till the end of summer somehow seasons the wood faster. It was explained to me that the rain washes off the natural oils in the wood and allows the moisture to escape quicker.
Now, whether or not that's truth is up for debate.
But since I have stopped covering my piles till the end of September, I have cut, split and stacked wood as late as April, and burned that same wood in October without an issue. And that's only 6 months. And those piles don't see a lot, if any direct sunlight.



For a spark to come out of my chimney and make it all the way to the ground then ignite.... I have to say seems pretty unlikely. Cant say I've ever heard of it. Maybe a spark from a bon fire in the summer has the potential to start a fire. But in the cold season?

I have found exactly the oposite. In my experince uncovered can take as much as twice as long to dry. My thinking always was if you want something to dry out keeping it dry is a good start.

As far as sparks starting fires no it is not.that common but it absolutly happens. But that isnt a spark arrestor anyway. They are smaller and clog all the time.

 

[Hasufel]

I have found exactly the oposite. In my experince uncovered can take as much as twice as long to dry. My thinking always was if you want something to dry out keeping it dry is a good start.

I actually ran a test that supports what you're saying. The full thread is here but basically I took similar pieces of freshly split oak and stored them in varying conditions (indoors, garage, covered outdoors, and uncovered outdoors) and then tracked their weight over time. The uncovered outdoor pieces did the worst by far. I think they might have lost the most moisture in the first day or two but after that they lagged well behind the others. Even after I brought all the pieces indoors, the ones that had been uncovered outdoors held on to more moisture. They certainly looked "weathered" but that had nothing to do with how much they had dried. I thought this was a great example of how looks can be deceiving!

 

[livetosail]

I am in Shelbyville and could probably help you out. I have plenty of well seasoned wood(split stacked 2-3yrs). Mostly ash, hackberry, mulberry, and cherry. Maybe we could make a trade, some seasoned ash for some of your wet oak. I have a hard time getting oak.

Sent you a PM. Thanks for the suggestion!

I have offered the same thing to three of the four folks I have dealt with. None of them were interested. I am starting to understand that some folks who sell wood are just scroungers who might do some tree trimming or pick up loose ends here and there and then try to make a profit. I’d prefer to deal with folks who actually heat with wood and go through the effort to C/S/S if themselves. Probably have a much better outcome that way.


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[savageactor7]

If you have to buy wood the only safe way to guarantee seasoned wood is to buy green wood, it's less expensive, and season it yourself by letting it sit outside in the sun for a year.

Don't cover it until in the late fall of the winter you'll burn it.

 

[xman23]

Your screen plugged with gooey creosote in 2 month was exactly what mine looked like the first year. The chimney had some build up but it was dry stuff that came off with the brush. So like you the screen came off and never went back, 18 years ago. The oak I burnt then was about 8 month old. Every year there after the cap got less gooey and blackened glass was reduced. Now almost nothing on the glass and a brown dry coating on the cap.

Amazing, back then, first year It didn't seam like anything would fix that. But we (me not my wife) got better at not smoldering the fire. And most important the oak is 3-5 years old stored under covered piles. So not to worry, as bad as it looks it will be fine in a few years. Just monitor the chimney, keep it clean.

 

[St. Coemgen]

I once heard that leaving your wood piles uncovered till the end of summer somehow seasons the wood faster. It was explained to me that the rain washes off the natural oils in the wood and allows the moisture to escape quicker.

Rain can wash out chemicals in the wood. Tannins in oak for example. But if you stop to think about it -- water does not really work well at washing away wood oils. Oil is hydrophobic. Nothing for the water to grab hold on in an oil molecule to pull it out of wood easily. That is why one preserves fine wood working items by rubbing oil into it. I suppose in five or six years, water might start to have an effect. But most people burn their wood before then. Just one of those folksy "just so" stories people like to repeat (and sometimes refuse to be corrected about, it is so ingrained into their thinking).

But, to the point: is it better to leave a pile covered or uncovered? Well, it depends actually a lot on your local conditions. And you should be aware that drying wood is to remove bound water in the xylem; rain water really does not add to that to any real extent or depth (unless you live in the Pacific North West or similar environment). But it can have effects in other ways (see below).

Rule of thumb:

1) If you have warm dry summers, then you definitely want to leave the stack uncovered. The hot sun will warm the pile and that temperature will help drying the wood. What minor rain falls will quickly evaporate and cause no real loss in drying time. Covering the pile is shading it, which keeps the pile cooler and results in less effective drying.

2) If you have wet cold summers, then you may consider covering it. Not that the water will soak into the wood to any extent (but again, unless you live in the Pacific North West or similar environment), but the surface moisture will to some extent retard movement of deeper water from the wood just by "being there". But probably more importantly it will keep the wood cooler than if it were dry, even under cover (ergo, don't cover wet wood), and also this further retards drying.

3) If you have conditions in between the two, suggest experimenting. Cover half your piles with a cover, and leave the rest uncovered. Split and measure water content once a month from each treatment. That should help you decide what is best for you. And such self determinations are always better than just doing what someone else says is "correct" (because being "correct" for them is not necessarily the same as being "correct" in all cases).


I did option 3 myself. So I know, for me, it is best to leave my piles uncovered till fall. But that is just me.

 

[AlbergSteve]

I think the OP should invest $30 bucks in a moisture meter and get next year's wood spit and stacked right away.

X2.

 

[livetosail]

X2.

I think you both should read the OP a little closer. I clearly said that I have and use a moisture meter, and that I am actively cutting and stacking wood for next year... thanks for your comment.


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[Jeffm1]

Okay. This is my first year with a wood burning stove. I installed a US Stove Country Hearth 2500 in mid-December. First fire was the 20th of December. Although I own ten acres of prime hardwood forest in the Midwest, since we began this year, I had to buy wood for this winter.

Since the 20th of December I have bought four ricks of wood from four different individuals all advertising “seasoned” wood.

We have heated the home 100% with wood since then; haven’t even turned on the furnace since then. Everything has been grand. Nights with temps below zero outside, able to keep all three floors above 70 inside.

Three days ago, however, I noticed a backdraft when I opened the door to the stove. It got so bad that I couldn’t open the door without the house smelling like a campfire. I read about the causes and decided that, despite my doubts, it must be a build up in my chimney. I headed to Lowes, bought a chimney sweep brush, and climbed the ladder to the roof.

This is what I found:

View attachment 223423

The inside of the chimney had about a quarter centimeter deep layer of fluffy powder-like creosote, but the chimney cap (especially the spark arrestor) had the bad stuff- dark, tarry, flakey, crispy creosote. There was so much that I could not see into the spark arrestor at all.

So, that answers that. The draft was definitely compromised, not because the inside of the chimney, but because the cap was encapsulated with creosote.

The question is: WTF is seasoned wood!!?!?!?!

Seriously!? Every bit of wood I put in the stove was purported to be “seasoned.” Yet, how was my stove able to create that much buildup in only two months?

I bought and used a moisture meter to test the wood, but there seems to be no consistency. For instance, if I pushed a little on some wood, I’d get a reading in the teens. Push a little more, and the reading is in the 20-30s. I have never once had a piece of wood that didn’t give me a reading of less than 30 when I really pushed the spikes in.

So, two questions:

1. Is this just what I should consider part and parcel of what it takes to heat with wood? I mean, should I just expect to scrape creosote 2-3 times a year?

2. What exactly is “seasoned?” When you say “at least one year” do you mean C/S/S in the spring, and burned the following winter (i.e., one full cycle of the seasons of the year), or do you mean C/S/S in the spring and left alone for more than 12 months, burning in year 2? I ask because I have been C/S/Sing wood every day for two months in anticipation of next winter. Should I not even bother, given that we are going to move a year from this spring? (Military family on orders)

Or am I simply the dope who bought crappy wood from four different people?



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When you test moisture content with a moisture meter find a large piece and split in half with your ax or hatchet. Then test the center of the freshly split face as deep as the prongs will sink.

 

[hickoryhoarder]

That is an incredible photo. Thanks for posting. "Seasoned" to me means ready to burn, has lost most of its natural water. I buy most of my wood. Occasionally a guy will hear what I want, and cut up a downed tree to fit my specs. But most of the wood is "seasoned". They're not liars. But it just means it was cut and split a while back. A while could mean three months, could mean nine months.

The guys around here are not making big money on this. I estimate their income at about $5/hour. It's never their main job. So I know they can't store it for two years. I usually ask how long ago they cut it, but I use my own eyes and hands (weight) to judge when a piece is ready.

Since I buy a lot of oak, it's a given that none of it is really seasoned. I buy 18-24 months in advance of when I'll burn it. It would season slower if it weren't in my sunny, breezy driveway.

If you need stuff to burn next year, look for things like black cherry and tulip poplar. Or white pine. Cherry is the easiest wood to me. I've burnt it six months after it's cut, no problem.

Wood burning is great for modern people, because it requires us to think ahead, not just turn a thermostat or a car ignition key.

Now, I only burn 1/2 cord a year. I'm in the city, use gas heat. Very efficient house too. And newer stove that is low in emissions. Saying all that, when I sweep the chimney, I get very little, a couple teaspoons of grit. My cap up top is steel or aluminum, and the color is 100% silver still, after eight years. So this seasoning idea works. You'll probably see a huge difference.

 

[hickoryhoarder]

I have an abundance of Red and White Oak on my property. So much that I cannot throw a stone without hitting one of these trees. The problem is that my entire property is perched on the side of a mountain, completely surrounded by forest. I do not have any flat areas (other than my stone patio and deck) on the land, and there are virtually no areas that get abundant direct sunlight in the summertime due to the large canopy above us (60+ feet high). SOoooooo... I am concerned because the vast majority of my woodpile (1.5 cords so far) is made up of red oak that I was expecting to burn next winter. With not a lot of direct sunlight and only 10 or so months of seasoning, it does not sound like I am going to be free of these creosote headaches next year either.

In my opinion, you should burn that wood in 2019/2020, not next winter. Maybe you could get black cherry and tulip poplar right now to burn next year? And white pine?

 

[livetosail]

In my opinion, you should burn that wood in 2019/2020, not next winter. Maybe you could get black cherry and tulip poplar right now to burn next year? And white pine?

I will be moving spring of 2019 (See original post). I have oak. No cherry. No poplar. Just oak. Lots and lots of oak.


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[livetosail]

Wood burning is great for modern people, because it requires us to think ahead, not just turn a thermostat or a car ignition key.

Now THIS I like, and I wholly agree. Nice to find a fellow lumberjack poet around here.



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[billb3]

That's kind of a small mesh screen. Other people have either removed it or gone with a slightly bigger mesh.

You really need to split a piece of wood open to test the moisture content inside center of a split. Testing an end is a waste of time.

I dry oak that was cut down green/live for 3 years. Cut, split and stacked. The top of my chimney never has any kind of build up.
I live near the beach so I don't get those nice dry warm westerlies inland gets.
It might be good enough in two, but good enough is not good enough for me. I want to burn clean and not have to clean my chimney. Even though I still do.
Dead standing oak or oak that has been in decline can already be a bit dried out. Especially the top half of a tree exposed to more wind and sun.


Choking the air way down to try to get longer burns than the stove was designed for can soot up a chimney right quick.

 

[gerry100]

another factor could be your stove and how you drive it.

Choking it down too soon when full could contribute to the creosote build up

I assume your stove is an EPA design, if so make sure you get it up to 550 deg F before you set up the afterburn

Takes a while to get the hang of these stoves

 

[Zack R]

I had the same issue (first year for me as well) back in December (2.5 months into the burning season). I was using marginal wood that wasn't seasoned enough and I was letting it smolder too often. Now instead of occasionally adding a split or two to the fire I fill it all the way up, put the pedal down to full throttle and then turn the air down and let it run at 350-600F until its all coals before reloading again.

Mine was almost totally clogged. I've been back up one time since to clean it up a bit and I'm constantly learning how to improve the stove's performance.

 

[livetosail]

Mine was almost totally clogged. I've been back up one time since to clean it up a bit and I'm constantly learning how to improve the stove's performance.
View attachment 223632

Wow. Good to hear I’m not the only one. I for one don’t mind the slight inconvenience of learning this lesson. Sure is lot cheaper than learning from a chimney fire!

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience. I appreciate the help!


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[livetosail]

Since we are now in the shoulder season and I have already determined that the wood
I bought is not seasoned well enough to be “safe,” I decided to improvise.

I split about two dozen logs into kindling-sized pieces, then made a little wood stand next to the stove and stacked it all to encourage a little bit of extra drying.


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[Jeffm1]

Okay. This is my first year with a wood burning stove. I installed a US Stove Country Hearth 2500 in mid-December. First fire was the 20th of December. Although I own ten acres of prime hardwood forest in the Midwest, since we began this year, I had to buy wood for this winter.

Since the 20th of December I have bought four ricks of wood from four different individuals all advertising “seasoned” wood.

We have heated the home 100% with wood since then; haven’t even turned on the furnace since then. Everything has been grand. Nights with temps below zero outside, able to keep all three floors above 70 inside.

Three days ago, however, I noticed a backdraft when I opened the door to the stove. It got so bad that I couldn’t open the door without the house smelling like a campfire. I read about the causes and decided that, despite my doubts, it must be a build up in my chimney. I headed to Lowes, bought a chimney sweep brush, and climbed the ladder to the roof.

This is what I found:

View attachment 223423

The inside of the chimney had about a quarter centimeter deep layer of fluffy powder-like creosote, but the chimney cap (especially the spark arrestor) had the bad stuff- dark, tarry, flakey, crispy creosote. There was so much that I could not see into the spark arrestor at all.

So, that answers that. The draft was definitely compromised, not because the inside of the chimney, but because the cap was encapsulated with creosote.

The question is: WTF is seasoned wood!!?!?!?!

Seriously!? Every bit of wood I put in the stove was purported to be “seasoned.” Yet, how was my stove able to create that much buildup in only two months?

I bought and used a moisture meter to test the wood, but there seems to be no consistency. For instance, if I pushed a little on some wood, I’d get a reading in the teens. Push a little more, and the reading is in the 20-30s. I have never once had a piece of wood that didn’t give me a reading of less than 30 when I really pushed the spikes in.

So, two questions:

1. Is this just what I should consider part and parcel of what it takes to heat with wood? I mean, should I just expect to scrape creosote 2-3 times a year?

2. What exactly is “seasoned?” When you say “at least one year” do you mean C/S/S in the spring, and burned the following winter (i.e., one full cycle of the seasons of the year), or do you mean C/S/S in the spring and left alone for more than 12 months, burning in year 2? I ask because I have been C/S/Sing wood every day for two months in anticipation of next winter. Should I not even bother, given that we are going to move a year from this spring? (Military family on orders)

Or am I simply the dope who bought crappy wood from four different people?



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Here’s my method to seasoning firewood:
1.) cut, split, stack outside uncovered completely. I live in N. AZ and the climate is very dry, unlike the humid east coast and Midwest. Spring and summer rains evaporate off within days.
2.) after at least 1 year green (or if cut dead standing 6 months) move into woodshed in October.
3.) I have a 4’x4’ rack in my garage I keep stocked with wood I move from the woodshed. As it comes time to burn wood I take the wood, usually a couple armfuls, and move to the holder next to the stove. It usually spends about 24 hours here before going into the stove.

I try to get and keep a couple (2-3)years worth supply in the dry area outside. Keeping the pipeline primed is key. With plenty of dry wood available you never have to compromise by burning wet/green wood and you are always warm. In addition, invariably, you will end up having extra at the end of winter and you can stock pile it for next year and you will easily exceed your 1 year minimum drying times.