Weird Stove Situation; Suggestions Welcome

[jotul8e2]

Actually it's an 8" flue choked down to 6" as it enters the wall, then out to the 7"x7".

As I understand the proposal, OP wants to install a new stove using a six inch vent directly into the unaltered 7X7 chimney. Is this something that can and should be done? Not being critical of anyone, just trying to understand flue dynamics.

By the way, put me down as one who thinks the Englander 30 nc is a quality stove, even if it is inexpensive. A bit rough around the edges, sure, but well designed and well made.

 

[Hogwildz]

As I understand the proposal, OP wants to install a new stove using a six inch vent directly into the unaltered 7X7 chimney. Is this something that can and should be done? Not being critical of anyone, just trying to understand flue dynamics.

By the way, put me down as one who thinks the Englander 30 nc is a quality stove, even if it is inexpensive. A bit rough around the edges, sure, but well designed and well made.

The flue falls within range, but is far from optimal.

 

[Joyboy]

I replace my Wood Stove. The Exact same mode. Mine was BK King from 1991. Great Stove. I replaced Catalyst and ran it for 3 years and finally got rid of it this past May. I went with Pellet Stove.

Harmon XXV. Been very happy with not bringing in Wood. I had 10 cords split up and ready to go for this Winter and gave it all away to Wife's Niece. They got my 1 year old Dirty Hand Too. (22T Log Splitter).

I had the old BK glowing when I first moved in. I never had chimney fire (see one so I know what they look like). I use 8" broom with extensions from outside about 6x a year. So no buildup (gotta do something to keep busy).

If I had to do it again I would get Harmon P68

(broken link removed)

50k BTU on old BK King and 50k on Harmon XXV. But I would have gone bigger if I thought about it more. It ended up being $3500 for stove (floor model). Plus install (insurance). They even removed the 435lb BK King to back porch for Wife to move (she be strong lady, uses tractor with forks).

I had some teething troubles, noise. 2 Screws impacting distro fan. Some rattling fixed with RTV.

I purchased 5 tons of Pellets. Will heat with it until March. Might have 1 ton leftover. Next year won't heat with Pellets until Nov (Like I did with Wood, used 3 cords yearly). I have Heat Pump and Elec is .05 Kilowatt.

It's really nice not cleaning stove couple times a week with ash bucket or having smoke enter house because I opened the door too soon. At 60 I was just tired of dealing with wood.

I spent about 6k with battery backup and inverter and pellets.

3500 - stove
1200 - Install
1000 - Pellets
600 - Inverter
100 - Permit

I think it's well worth it.

Harmon XXV

• Dataman
• Sep 17, 2018

Harmon XXV Setup

View attachment 236009

I’m not interested in a pellet stove. But that is a really good looking one! Definitely has some appeal. Glad it’s working good for you.

 

[bholler]

I never said the Englander wasn't a good stove. It is a fantastic stove for the money. But when you work on as many stoves as I do you get to see the differences between them. The Englander does not have an adjustable door latch. The tube mounting sucks. The baffle is cheaper. The air to the doghouse is unregulated meaning less control. And other things. It is absolutely still a good stove but you do get more from stoves that cost more.

 

[lsucet]

The way I see it is that whatever stove you install the chance of chimney fires will be always a concern with that type of setup. For what the experts here said it is not to code, so is the manufacturer specs of how their product should be installed. They all share similarities when we talk about the right way to do it as for manufacture specs.
I know that not everyone can do it as recommended due to to many factors. But take in consideration that a tube stove in case of chimney fire are worse cause you can't control at all the secondary air port. Including those with some percentage of control over the dog house. They are worse than a barometric damper. They don't recommend them on solid fuel application for many reasons but the main reason is in case of chimney fire it keeps giving air to the chimney but they never realized that at least it can be covered/plugged. Secondaries? NO WAY. Yeah I said it right, is worse.
The point is fix the flue and try to come up with a solution of a better setup. you knew the cat is not good, well, then you know that you cooperate to the situation, cause good working cat takes care and prevent accumulation. When always will be some a good working cat is a most.

 

[bholler]

The way I see it is that whatever stove you install the chance of chimney fires will be always a concern with that type of setup. For what the experts here said it is not to code, so is the manufacturer specs of how their product should be installed. They all share similarities when we talk about the right way to do it as for manufacture specs.
I know that not everyone can do it as recommended due to to many factors. But take in consideration that a tube stove in case of chimney fire are worse cause you can't control at all the secondary air port. Including those with some percentage of control over the dog house. They are worse than a barometric damper. They don't recommend them on solid fuel application for many reasons but the main reason is in case of chimney fire it keeps giving air to the chimney but they never realized that at least it can be covered/plugged. Secondaries? NO WAY. Yeah I said it right, is worse.
The point is fix the flue and try to come up with a solution of a better setup. you knew the cat is not good, well, then you know that you cooperate to the situation, cause good working cat takes care and prevent accumulation. When always will be some a good working cat is a most.

I am sorry but your idea that tube stoves are worse in a chimney fire are completely baseless. And claiming they are worse than a barometric damper that opens to give a full open pipe is absurd.

 

[Hogwildz]

The way I see it is that whatever stove you install the chance of chimney fires will be always a concern with that type of setup. For what the experts here said it is not to code, so is the manufacturer specs of how their product should be installed. They all share similarities when we talk about the right way to do it as for manufacture specs.
I know that not everyone can do it as recommended due to to many factors. But take in consideration that a tube stove in case of chimney fire are worse cause you can't control at all the secondary air port. Including those with some percentage of control over the dog house. They are worse than a barometric damper. They don't recommend them on solid fuel application for many reasons but the main reason is in case of chimney fire it keeps giving air to the chimney but they never realized that at least it can be covered/plugged. Secondaries? NO WAY. Yeah I said it right, is worse.
The point is fix the flue and try to come up with a solution of a better setup. you knew the cat is not good, well, then you know that you cooperate to the situation, cause good working cat takes care and prevent accumulation. When always will be some a good working cat is a most.

Complete rubbish.

 

[lsucet]

As far as the parrots continually chiming in about telling you to keep a stove you stated you no longer want, just ignore them. Some asshats just can't take a hint, let alone get a clear message.

At least I am talking about stoves and if not then prove me wrong. Tell me if you can shut the secondary on a chimney fire. You are calling name to people that all what they are trying is to help. Tell me who is more rubbish?

 

[Hogwildz]

At least I am talking about stoves and if not then prove me wrong. Tell me if you can shut the secondary on a chimney fire. You are calling name to people that all what they are trying is to help. Tell me who is more rubbish?

Sorry to hurt your feelings, but you opinion is not fact, nor advice, well poor advice, and slanted and biased.
A chimney fire is a chimney fire, neither your god almighty BK is going to stop a chimney fire, nor is a non-cat. Once the chimney fire is going, it's going.

Secondly, the poster stated pretty clearly "I am replacing the Blaze King and am not interested in Blaze King information."
And stated several more times, HE DOES NOT WANT THE BK ANYMORE, AND WANTS TO REPLACE IT!
Pretty clear to me an many others. So to keep pestering him about the BK is uncalled for.

 

[bholler]

At least I am talking about stoves and if not then prove me wrong. Tell me if you can shut the secondary on a chimney fire. You are calling name to people that all what they are trying is to help. Tell me who is more rubbish?

You may be trying to help but you are giving completly unsubstantiated info that is of no help

 

[lsucet]

Yeah a chimney fire is a chimney fire period and you right. But at

You may be trying to help but you are giving completly unsubstantiated info that is of no help

Really then tell me. In case of a chimney fire with a BK and a tube stove, which one will give more unregulated air to the fire? Which one can make it worse?
I have tube stoves and I am going to install one of them in the shop. Regardless if they cheap or not, who cares. But nobody are going to blind me about how it works and how the operator is lock of more control over. Tell me when your regency is at 600 degrees and the air is closed, can you kill the secondary if you want to?
I do know the amswer and it is NO. Period.
Yeah there is a difference and that differences can some time helps.

 

[bholler]

Yeah a chimney fire is a chimney fire period and you right. But at

Really then tell me. In case of a chimney fire with a BK and a tube stove, which one will give more unregulated air to the fire? Which one can make it worse?
I have tube stoves and I am going to install one of them in the shop. Regardless if they cheap or not, who cares. But nobody are going to blind me about how it works and how the operator is lock of more control over. Tell me when your regency is at 600 degrees and the air is closed, can you kill the secondary if you want to?
I do know the amswer and it is NO. Period.
Yeah there is a difference and that differences can some time helps.

Yes infact i can by closing the air and the damper.

Can you tell me how large the hole is in the intake flap of bks? Now tell me how large the hole is in regencies.

 

[bholler]

Yeah a chimney fire is a chimney fire period and you right. But at

Really then tell me. In case of a chimney fire with a BK and a tube stove, which one will give more unregulated air to the fire? Which one can make it worse?
I have tube stoves and I am going to install one of them in the shop. Regardless if they cheap or not, who cares. But nobody are going to blind me about how it works and how the operator is lock of more control over. Tell me when your regency is at 600 degrees and the air is closed, can you kill the secondary if you want to?
I do know the amswer and it is NO. Period.
Yeah there is a difference and that differences can some time helps.

Can you tell us how many chimney fires you have had in a chimney with a cat stove? A tube stove? A stove with a barometric damper? Or point us towards any research on the subject.

 

[lsucet]

I don't need to do any research. Because I don't speak/know your language very well it doesn't mean than I am not educated enough to see, notice and understand the differences. I did use barometric damper, and was the best way that the tube stoves run and I did have a cap that if I want I can cover it.. No I Never had a chimney fire. Do I need to have one to can talk?

 

[Hogwildz]

Because I don't speak/know your language very well it doesn't mean than I am not educated enough to see, notice and understand the differences. I did use barometric damper, and was the best way that the tube stoves run and IR have a cap that if I want I can cover it..

More rubbish. Your advice and input is not only ridiculous, but dangerous to be bragging about. Hope others are "educated" enough not to add a baro damper to their stove. Not educated, but opinionated. A baro damper on a stove set up. And claims no chimney fire. Thanks for the laughs.

 

[lsucet]

Well maybe you the one that need to be educated cause some manuals talked about that in case that is needed needs to be approved for a professional. I will let you do the research and get educated.

 

[begreen]

 

[bholler]

Well maybe you the one that need to be educated cause some manuals talked about that in case that is needed needs to be approved for a professional. I will let you do the research and get educated.

What manual is that?

 

[Monsieur Poele]

A cat stove without a functional cat in it is dangerous. The chimney gets full of creosote very fast. Also it is normal that your chimney is clean after a chimney fire. Buy a tube stove and burn it very hot. If it is possible, put your chimney inside your house through the roof so it is warmer. It will also bring some extra heat inside your house.


Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk

 

[Chas0218]

I love my englander stove. I am a budget minded person and couldn't see myself spending big money on soapstone or the like. Mine has the same size firebox as NC30 or very close but larger window. Only thing I changed out was the gasket to a bigger one on the door and haven't had any issues. Mine is the summers heat 50-shssw02 rated to heat up to 3000 sq.ft. and it does a fine job doing that. It might not be the prettiest stove on the market but it meets my needs at my budget. The fan it comes with is nice but loud and only ran when we are sleeping or are not home. All in all love my stove and don't regret the purchase at all. In fact I might buy another when I get my workshop built but we will see. Looking to do radiant heat in the garage floor and 2nd story workshop so might not go the stove route. Anyway I wouldn't shy away from the 30NC and if you want a big viewing window look into the Summers heat SSW02.

Here is a photo of the stove, I thought I had some better ones but couldn't find them.

 

[vwmike]

I think blaze kings are just fussier stoves. They are well designed stoves but require fine tuning and specific chimney specs to work properly. The better designs of tube stoves are more forgiving of chimney setups as they tend to keep them warmer so they draft better, hence they also tend to stay cleaner.

 

[BIGChrisNH]

I have an NC30 installed in my basement. Hearth is brick, and stove vents via 6 inch pipe into a 7 inch clay lined flue. I have no problems running the stove well with that set-up, and have had no problems with extra build-up in the chimney. I sweep 3 times, before, during and after burning season. On the wish-list for next year is a stainless liner and repair work to the crown of the chimney. I don't think you will have any issues running the stove through a 7 inch flue provided the flue has been inspected. If you've had any issues with chimney fires it's probably worth it to have the chimney professionally inspected for peace of mind.

 

[lsucet]

What manual is that?

This furnace must be connected to a chimney certified for use with wood burning heating appliances. A 7-inch chimney and connector must be installed for the Max Caddy if it is used as a wood-oil unit, a wood-electrical-oil unit or if an oil option may be installed in the future. If the furnace is to be used as a wood only unit or a wood-electric, then a 6-inch chimney is recommended. The unit is not to be connected to a chimney flue serving another appliance. If the chimney draft exceeds 0.06 IN.W.C., a barometric draft control should be installed on the smoke pipe. Never install a manual damper. The barometric control must be adjusted so that the maximum draft measured at the furnace outlet does not exceed -0.06 IN.W.C. Please note that a draft exceeding 0.06 IN.W.C. could produce an uncontrollable fire. On the other hand, the minimum draft required is 0.04 IN.W.C. in the evacuation pipe on the wood side, no matter what type of furnace (WOOD, WOOD/ELECTRIC OR WOOD/OIL). The adjustment should in no case be modified to increase combustion.

 

[begreen]

A combo furnace in a basement is a different animal. It's common to have a barometric damper on an oil furnace. They are more draft sensitive and don't produce creosote. BDs are often recommended for furnaces because they are out of sight, have an additional floor of chimney height and are multifunction (oil or gas + wood).

Here is the caveat from another wood furnace mfg in their manual for the Continental CHMF200:
THE USE OF A BAROMETRIC DAMPER ON A WOOD OR WOOD/OIL APPLIANCE CAN HAVE THE FOLLOWING CONSEQUENCES:
1. DILLUTION AIR ENTERING THROUGH THE BAROMETRIC DAMPER MAY PREMATURELY COOL EXHAUST PRODUCTS CREATING EXCESS CREOSOTE DEPOSITS INSIDE THE CHIMNEY LEADING TO A CHIMNEY FIRE HAZARD.
2. IF A CHIMNEY FIRE OCCURS, THE BYPASS DAMPER CAN PULL OPEN UNDER DRAFT PRESSURE AND FORCE FEED AND INTENSIFY THE FIRE. STAY VIGILANT FOR RAPIDLY DEPOSITING CREOSOTE WHEN RUNNING A VENT SYSTEM WITH A BAROMETRIC DAMPER.

A BD can be used on a wood stove, but it really should only as the last resort and with the caveat of higher vigilance, keeping the flue hot, burning only dry wood and more frequent cleanings.

 

[lsucet]

A combo furnace in a basement is a different animal. It's common to have a barometric damper on an oil furnace. They are more draft sensitive and don't produce creosote. BDs are often recommended for furnaces because they are out of sight, have an additional floor of chimney height and are multifunction (oil or gas + wood).

Here is the caveat from another wood furnace mfg in their manual for the Continental CHMF200:
THE USE OF A BAROMETRIC DAMPER ON A WOOD OR WOOD/OIL APPLIANCE CAN HAVE THE FOLLOWING CONSEQUENCES:
1. DILLUTION AIR ENTERING THROUGH THE BAROMETRIC DAMPER MAY PREMATURELY COOL EXHAUST PRODUCTS CREATING EXCESS CREOSOTE DEPOSITS INSIDE THE CHIMNEY LEADING TO A CHIMNEY FIRE HAZARD.
2. IF A CHIMNEY FIRE OCCURS, THE BYPASS DAMPER CAN PULL OPEN UNDER DRAFT PRESSURE AND FORCE FEED AND INTENSIFY THE FIRE. STAY VIGILANT FOR RAPIDLY DEPOSITING CREOSOTE WHEN RUNNING A VENT SYSTEM WITH A BAROMETRIC DAMPER.

Agreed. But it is a solid fuel appliance and it can be use as wood only. We can find controversial statements from different manufactures. The same some manufactures says (do not burn pine in this stove). I dont remember now but i am sure that i came across when shopping for stoves years ago, reading online manuals that dont recommend them but if has to be use that a professional should do the install.