Wanted to say thanks. Last wood fire

[Ludlow]

Yes it came from the environment originally but we are releasing thousands of years worth of carbon in decades.

Prior to being deposited, every atom of it was in the environment all at the same time.

 

[bholler]

Prior to being deposited, every atom of it was in the environment all at the same time.

Yes but not in the atmosphere where we are putting much of it. Much of it was in animals and vegetation.

 

[Ludlow]

Yes but not in the atmosphere where we are putting much of it. Much of it was in animals and vegetation.

Ya but...ya but....lol. We have 12 years to live so Im not wasting time arguing.

 

[bholler]

Ya but...ya but....lol. We have 12 years to live so Im not wasting time arguing.

Do you not see the difference between carbon in the ground and in living things and carbon being dumped into the atmosphere in massive levels? The form of that carbon matters allot

 

[jatoxico]

savings over heating exclusively with my oil-fired boiler that exceed my expenses on wood

How much oil do you use with and w/o wood? Seems tough to get ROI after the investments and changing out stoves.

 

[Ludlow]

Im too worried to discuss any more today.

Do you not see the difference between carbon in the ground and in living things

Where did they get it from?

 

[bholler]

Im too worried to discuss any more today.


Where did they get it from?

Lots of different sources. The carbon cycle is pretty basic science.

 

[webby3650]

So, how bout that 50-93? It’s a good performer! Have you got it hooked up yet? @Shaun643

 

[webby3650]

It just blows my mind how so many people want to pick on coal! I travel about 24 miles to work each way everyday. I see no less than 12 homes that have a wood smoke plume that fills entire valleys! Some, entire neighborhoods. If their house isn’t pouring smoke they must be on vacation. Then I drive an average of 30 miles each way to my job, same thing. Smoke, smoke, smoke... Everyone plays a role in being environmentally friendly, that’s for sure. My smokeless, odorless coal stove is way less offensive and making a very small impact to my environment. I offset my impact by not using my LP furnace at all, driving a tiny car that gets 34mpg. I just added that last part so I might still be accepted into the hearth.com community..

 

[Shaun643]

I spent a ton of time on there before I bought my Hitzer. I think it would be nice if Hearth.com had some more coal enthusiasts that are active. People are still burning coal contrary to popular belief... When I tell people around here that we started heating with coal they are in shock, unaware that anyone still uses coal these days. Yup! Even your electric car uses coal!

Yeah I get the same response. My guess is it the people who are not very educated on heating with coal.

 

[Shaun643]

Not really available local here despite the deep past history of it (I am 10 minutes from Springhill). So never was a consideration for me. Especially with all those trees out back. But if good stuff was available, it would certainly be something to consider. Thinking dealing with ash could be a bit of a challenge? Not just cleanly getting it out of the stove or boiler and out of the house - but also disposing of it?

(Kind of totally ignorant here about the whole subject, despite being in those infamous mine tunnels a couple of times...)

The stove has an Ash pan you shake the grates open the ash door and take it out. As far as getting rid of the ash I can still put it in the garden like I do wood ash. It's not like the large amounts of fly ash from Bit coal that power plants have to deal with

 

[bholler]

Yeah I get the same response. My guess is it the people who are not very educated on heating with coal.

I am extremely educated in burning coal. Yes wood puts out much more visible smoke than anthracite. But the chemicals in coal exhaust are far nastier. I have burnt both. I have been at the top of chimneys with stoves burning both. I will pick wood over coal exhaust any day

 

[weatherguy]

I'm also waiting for those split heat pump water heaters that they keep promising. Game changer.

They keep getting better and more efficient, my next house will have that for heat/hw with a wood stove for when I feel like it.

 

[webby3650]

They keep getting better and more efficient, my next house will have that for heat/hw with a wood stove for when I feel like it.

Will the heat pump be solar powered? If not what will power it?

 

[bholler]

The stove has an Ash pan you shake the grates open the ash door and take it out. As far as getting rid of the ash I can still put it in the garden like I do wood ash. It's not like the large amounts of fly ash from Bit coal that power plants have to deal with

You will need to watch that. You will end up making the soil pretty acidic. Some plants will like that others absolutely won't grow.

 

[webby3650]

The stove has an Ash pan you shake the grates open the ash door and take it out. As far as getting rid of the ash I can still put it in the garden like I do wood ash. It's not like the large amounts of fly ash from Bit coal that power plants have to deal with

I’m really surprised at the amount of ash. It needs dumped everyday, otherwise it builds up and blocks the air path. It does produce a lot of ash and it frickin heavy! It’s still much easier than wood for me. Shake it every 12 hours, load it every 24, and the glass is still nice and clean!

 

[bholler]

I’m really surprised at the amount of ash. It needs dumped everyday, otherwise it builds up and blocks the air path. It does produce a lot of ash and it frickin heavy! It’s still much easier than wood for me. Shake it every 12 hours, load it every 24, and the glass is still nice and clean!

The ammout of ash will vary greatly depending upon the batch of coal. The same with the dust level. There is allot of variation in coal

 

[Highbeam]

They keep getting better and more efficient, my next house will have that for heat/hw with a wood stove for when I feel like it.

Oh, this isn’t for domestic water heating but for hydronic space heating using the technology of mini split heat pumps.

 

[Ashful]

Well those costs are a bit extreme I am sure you could have spent much less on each part of that list.

Time versus money, my friend. I have spent my entire life being woefully short on one or the other. I've owned a few trucks even cheaper than your present $2k example, and they each required occasional but immediate time for repairs that I just don't have to spare today.

But even if some of my choices were superfluous (and you're right that some were), the point was refuting the notion above that wood is somehow free, in comparison to the cost of buying coal. There are so many costs to heating with wood, that folks either errantly explain away as "things I'd have anyway", or simply ignore. I'm making the case that, with very few exceptions, this is almost never true.

How much oil do you use with and w/o wood? Seems tough to get ROI after the investments and changing out stoves.

The heating system for this place is a little complicated to explain, with a combination of oil, multiple heat pumps, electric resistive, and two wood stoves. I have never taken the time to figure out how many electrons I burn on heating, but I have spent a lot of effort on estimating oil usage, and figure I would burn 2750 gallons of oil in an average year without the wood stoves. But having grown up cash poor, I'm too frugal to have ever actually tried that, so I have had some form of wood heat running since my first year heating this joint.

Now you can understand the immediate interest in coal! Almost a decade in now, I'm getting tired of felling, bucking, hauling, splitting, stacking, moving, and loading this amount of wood every year.

 

[bholler]

Time versus money, my friend. I have spent my entire life being woefully short on one or the other. I've owned a few trucks even cheaper than your present $2k example, and they each required occasional but immediate time for repairs that I just don't have to spare today.

But even if some of my choices were superfluous (and you're right that some were), the point was refuting the notion above that wood is somehow free, in comparison to the cost of buying coal. There are so many costs to heating with wood, that folks either errantly explain away as "things I'd have anyway", or simply ignore. I'm making the case that, with very few exceptions, this is almost never true.

The heating system for this place is a little complicated to explain, with a combination of oil, multiple heat pumps, electric resistive, and two wood stoves. I have never taken the time to figure out how many electrons I burn on heating, but I have spent a lot of effort on estimating oil usage, and figure I would burn 2750 gallons of oil in an average year without the wood stoves. But having grown up cash poor, I'm too frugal to have ever actually tried that, so I have had some form of wood heat running since my first year heating this joint.

Now you can understand the immediate interest in coal! Almost a decade in now, I'm getting tired of felling, bucking, hauling, splitting, stacking, moving, and loading this amount of wood every year.

Well my 2k truck was a $500 truck. The other $1500 was spent making it reliable. And for the 5000 to 7000 miles I put on it a year it has been extremely reliable. All that being said but what ever you want to make wood easier if you want no judgement from me. And absolutely wood is not free. But for most of us it's pretty damn cheap.

 

[maple1]

Oh, this isn’t for domestic water heating but for hydronic space heating using the technology of mini split heat pumps.

I would imagine though that with one capable of space heating, you could also heat your DHW with it.

 

[jatoxico]

figure I would burn 2750 gallons of oil in an average year without the wood stoves.

Somewhat in the same boat. My first year in current house I was on pace to burn >1500 g of oil. With some new windows, programmable thermostats and the stove I'm averaging 900 g over the last few years.

I could save more oil by burning more wood but that's more work and would require more $$ on wood processing which cuts into the savings.

A new coal stove and liner will cost some bucks. Knowing you you'll have to have a (gilded )coal bin and some associated tools. And I have a friend with coal, definitely easier but not without work especially getting rid of ash.

Think it would be better to just let the oil burner pick up more of the load? From the calculations I've seen If you picked up the lost BTU's by burning another 600 g you could drop your wood consumption by about 3 cords.

For me I always realized the costs associated with wood and I'll buy it before I spend 10K on trucks, saws and splitters and not gonna fret if the oil burner comes on.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Now you can understand the immediate interest in coal! Almost a decade in now, I'm getting tired of felling, bucking, hauling, splitting, stacking, moving, and loading this amount of wood every year.

And it gets a lot less glamorous as you get older. I told my best friend who is 55 and just bought a farmette (and a woodstove) and is so gung ho on all the things he wants to do there ,get everything hard done before your 60. After that all you will have the energy for is to sit on the front porch and drink beer. At 63 im still working 6 days(make it 7 when you throw in working at home) a week and every thing is much harder and slower than it used to be. The will is still there , but the "way" keeps getting harder. Soon you will have to throw in the cost of paying someone else to process all the wood.

 

[Ashful]

And absolutely wood is not free. But for most of us it's pretty damn cheap.

Agreed. I need to sit down and formally revisit the numbers, but I expect my savings over oil to be in the low six figure territory by the time I give up wood altogether, likely ca.2040. if I switch the stove that is currently consuming 30% of my wood to coal or pellet, that number will likely decrease 15%, but still likely over $100k less than oil for my total years in this house.

 

[coaly]

The stove has an Ash pan you shake the grates open the ash door and take it out. As far as getting rid of the ash I can still put it in the garden like I do wood ash. It's not like the large amounts of fly ash from Bit coal that power plants have to deal with

Wood ash in the garden promotes reproduction, like potash. It is good for acidic ground where acidic soil is not preferred. So it is used like lime. Since leaves produce acidic soil, I use it in leaf piles that compost down to prevent it from being too acidic.

Coal ash does not have qualities to promote plant growth. So I have used it heavy where I want to slow growth. Along fences to prevent needed trimming, around posts and utility poles to prevent weeds. It does solidify from moisture in the atmosphere, so you can't store it like anti-skid or wood ash in barrels. It will be like cement when you need it. If used for anti-skid, only use it far from the house. NOT where people walk to drag it anywhere near the inside of the house! It's not like wood ash that makes a gray mess to clean up. I have spilled a little on snow covered ground, and days later find what looks like spackle on floors where snow was drug in. It's also not good for filling potholes on private roads since it is so fine it becomes airborne making a dusty mess. I use it for fill in low spots, and have a lot of Mountain Laurel which requires acidic soil, like Rhododendron. Pines also do well with it since their needles create acidic soil to prevent other plants from crowding. It has its uses.