Very custom wood fireplace in need of update

[Ben in the North]

Hello all, first post for me!

I purchased this house 3 years ago partly because of the fireplace and the gigantic skylight.

I have been using the fireplace but it is not very well designed and it could you some help from your experience. I have contacted some local specialist, and they all refused to do any work in fear of liability... I kind of understand.

This "tube" is 30ft tall + 4 feet in concrete underground, it is 9ft diameter and the fireplace is 6 ft tall before the 8" chimney starts.
It is quite impressive and a focus point of the house.

• I would like to have ideas on how to seal the doors to get better heat out of this.
• When I open one door to add wood, there is always a good amount of smoke coming out, need to understand why and what I can do.

Any help would be greatly appreciated !

 

[stoveliker]

Holy cow what a cool thing.

If smoke rolls out, either the design is poor(for that aspect), or,.if that didn't use to happen, you have created an obstruction in the pipe or cap.

Is your wood dry enough?
Is there a screen in the cap? (How would you clean the cap here...
Soot eater going up from inside?)

 

[Ben in the North]

Holy cow what a cool thing.

If smoke rolls out, either the design is poor(for that aspect), or,.if that didn't use to happen, you have created an obstruction in the pipe or cap.

Is your wood dry enough?
Is there a screen in the cap? (How would you clean the cap here...
Soot eater going up from inside?)

It is quite impressive and cool to watch, thanks.

Past owners have said the smoke came out a bit and they didn't use it for that reason. The design is quite basic and probably poor.
It's simply a big tube coned out at 6 feet, that's all.

The chimney damper does not open 100% so, yes there is some obstructions there but no screen on the cap.

The get the cleaning done I have a folding/locking ladder that I set-up above the glass and remove the cap. Need a buddy and climbing harness for safety, always an interesting day.

 

[stoveliker]

If there's no obstruction, I think there's not much you can do about the smoke rolling out of the door.

The only thing to try is to crack a nearby window before you open the stove door. Especially if your home is air sealed well.

The draft is not strong enough to suck all the smoke up with the large quantity of air coming through the door.

 

[kborndale]

It is quite impressive and cool to watch, thanks.

Past owners have said the smoke came out a bit and they didn't use it for that reason. The design is quite basic and probably poor.
It's simply a big tube coned out at 6 feet, that's all.

The chimney damper does not open 100% so, yes there is some obstructions there but no screen on the cap.

The get the cleaning done I have a folding/locking ladder that I set-up above the glass and remove the cap. Need a buddy and climbing harness for safety, always an interesting day.

Get a sooteater and clean it from the bottom. Very cool looking stove, but unfortunately very cool unusual stoves often come with issues.

 

[gthomas785]

The fact that it gets so small at the top is the issue. What is that a 6" pipe? 8"? It would need to be modified with a larger / less restrictive flue to increase draft so the smoke doesn't roll out.
I guess you could start by running it without the cap as a test to see if that helps. But I wouldn't leave it that way.

As for getting more heat, good luck with that. Seems like it doesn't have any kind of smoke shelf or baffle, and adding one would make the smoking issue worse. Maybe you could fashion an adjustable damper of some kind.

 

[EbS-P]

There is a ratio of fireplace opening area to flue area. an 8” pipe is too small for that large an opening. Do you want to keep it an open fireplace or might you consider an insert or stove if they could fit?


Edit…. That’s neat enough came back for a second look. I don’t think it’s ever going to burn wood well as an open fireplace. It’s super neat looking but lacks functionality. A gas log set or an alcohol burner may be you best option for pretty flames. Given that setup would never expect it to heat much of anything. If I wanted wood heat I’d put a flue ballon in tag it out of service and pick somewhere else for a wood stove.

 

[stovexxx]

the maximum ratio is 1/10 between the flue and the door. If you use the bulkheads that I see in the photos, to lower the height of the door, you should be ok, both to stay in the ratio of the flue and the surface of the door and to stay in acceptable measures of the height of the door, which also has rules, that I currently do not know. Having established this, surely the problem is that not enough air enters this house, to satisfy an 8 inch pipe, the first test, open a window, if there is still smoke, lower the height of the doors, further, also use monoxide monitoring instruments

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Shrink the opening to match the flue diameter. Maybe a permanent custom fitted glass insert will shrink it enough that the fireplace will work with the current flue.

 

[all night moe]

Even if you can get it to work proper, it'll devour wood. If you want to enjoy some heat from it, how about installing a good looking stove there?

 

[Ben in the North]

If there's no obstruction, I think there's not much you can do about the smoke rolling out of the door.

The only thing to try is to crack a nearby window before you open the stove door. Especially if your home is air sealed well.

The draft is not strong enough to suck all the smoke up with the large quantity of air coming through the door.

I'll try that, thanks !

 

[Ben in the North]

The fact that it gets so small at the top is the issue. What is that a 6" pipe? 8"? It would need to be modified with a larger / less restrictive flue to increase draft so the smoke doesn't roll out.
I guess you could start by running it without the cap as a test to see if that helps. But I wouldn't leave it that way.

As for getting more heat, good luck with that. Seems like it doesn't have any kind of smoke shelf or baffle, and adding one would make the smoking issue worse. Maybe you could fashion an adjustable damper of some kind.

The flue is 8" and runs inside the big "tube" 6 feet from the floor.
That Flue is a steel tube and what you see on the outside picture is a 10" insulated chimney over it to look nicer.

I will try removing the cap, it will let me know if less restrictions helps.
You are right, there is no smoke shelf or baffle of any kind.
I do get some heat from it but it burns so much wood !

 

[Ben in the North]

There is a ratio of fireplace opening area to flue area. an 8” pipe is too small for that large an opening. Do you want to keep it an open fireplace or might you consider an insert or stove if they could fit?


Edit…. That’s neat enough came back for a second look. I don’t think it’s ever going to burn wood well as an open fireplace. It’s super neat looking but lacks functionality. A gas log set or an alcohol burner may be you best option for pretty flames. Given that setup would never expect it to heat much of anything. If I wanted wood heat I’d put a flue ballon in tag it out of service and pick somewhere else for a wood stove.

I did ask a couple places for an insert, but the opening is not suitable.
And since the whole thing is part of the roof structure we can't cut into it...

I might just keep it as a fireplace with the doors closed, looks good enough for me !

 

[Ben in the North]

Even if you can get it to work proper, it'll devour wood. If you want to enjoy some heat from it, how about installing a good looking stove there?

Yeah, it does devour wood already but I can't install a proper stove there. The main tube is structural for the roof.

 

[EbS-P]

Yeah, it does devour wood already but I can't install a proper stove there. The main tube is structural for the roof.

My only thought was a hearthstone bari and even that would take some modifications. And off label installation

Bari - HearthStone Stoves

The cleanest, most efficient modern stove on the market. [...]Read More...

www.hearthstonestoves.com

 

[bigealta]

I'd either try to put in something like the above stove and run a 6" liner in the existing 8".
Or
find a medium size freestanding stove that could fit and put it part in part outside of the fireplace opening with a 6" liner running up thru the existing 8"

You could extend the base of the fireplace out onto those circular bricks or possible even just put a brick under the front feet of the freestanding stove.

A really cool stove that would look good there would be an old refurbished Elm stove.

Home - Vermont Elm Stove

Catalytic Elm before restoration After full restoration The Elm stove is one of the finest wood stoves ever manufactured. A blend of sculptural elegance and innovative design, The Elm wood stove was handmade in the mountains of Vermont from 1976-1989. Many people are still using Elm stoves built...

vermontelmstove.com

 

[all night moe]

Yeah, it does devour wood already but I can't install a proper stove there. The main tube is structural for the roof.

Yes, you can. It would most likely require an engineer, or someone very skilled. I am envisioning a spiderweb like framework, installed horizontally, at the top of the walls. Some upright supports at the center holding up the light. The uprights would surround the new flue.

Possibly flat black steel. Would blend in, support well, and be safe from combustion.

 

[EbS-P]

Yes, you can. It would most likely require an engineer, or someone very skilled. I am envisioning a spiderweb like framework, installed horizontally, at the top of the walls. Some upright supports at the center holding up the light. The uprights would surround the new flue.

Possibly flat black steel. Would blend in, support well, and be safe from combustion.

To get a licensed PE in do the design and then pay for the work I would guess that it could easily be $12k USD job as high as 20k

I always believe you should work with what is there until it is clear it will not meet your goals.

 

[all night moe]

To get a licensed PE in do the design and then pay for the work I would guess that it could easily be $12k USD job as high as 20k

I always believe you should work with what is there until it is clear it will not meet your goals.

I know they're expensive, and that looks like an expensive pad.

Throwing the idea out there is all. If it was an average home, I wouldn't have suggested it.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

That is a gorgeous setup. I can see why you want to work to improve what's there rather than to dismantle it in any way. I do admit, though, to being skeptical about your being able to do much to get a lot of heat out of an open fireplace. Inserts are a common solution to that problem, but I can see that your fireplace would pose challenges for an insert.

I think it's hard for me to get an idea of the scale, but it sounds like it's very large given the dimensions that you do specify. Would you be able to keep the entire structure intact, lining the chimney with an insulated liner and hooking up a rear-vented stove? Someone gave the example of an elm stove above, but I was thinking of a more modern one that burns more cleanly and efficiently. The one that came to my mind was the Progress Hybrid from Woodstock Soapstone Company, though I'm not sure that it would be the best fit aesthetically, and you certainly need to consider the aesthetics of such a focal point. I think it's worth mulling over the idea of a rear-vented stove, though. It would add functionality to the space, remove the problem of smoke rollout, but keep the beauty of the central chimney surrounded by the skylight. If the area feels cold, that would be a big improvement.

Here's a link to the Progress Hybrid. Note that the colors pictured are not only colors available. I believe that they are custom built with many choices available.

Progress Hybrid Wood Stove

Unique Hybrid Design The Progress is a HYBRID because it uses both a catalytic combustor and a secondary combustion system. Until the Progress was introduced in 2011, EPA certified wood stoves used one or the other. The Progress gives you the best of both systems - combined. A catalytic combustor b

www.woodstove.com

 

[bigealta]

I think it's hard for me to get an idea of the scale, but it sounds like it's very large given the dimensions that you do specify. Would you be able to keep the entire structure intact, lining the chimney with an insulated liner and hooking up a rear-vented stove? Someone gave the example of an elm stove above,

Some newer Elm's had cats so i'd think they are pretty efficient,

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Some newer Elm's had cats so i'd think they are pretty efficient,

It could be. I don't know much about them. I just saw that they were last manufactured in the late 1980's and made an assumption.

Either way, I think the point that you and I agree on for the OP is that a rear-vented stove might be the best option he has to preserve his space and get some functional heat out of it. I just wanted to show another option as it's the one that popped to my mind.

 

[bigealta]

It could be. I don't know much about them. I just saw that they were last manufactured in the late 1980's and made an assumption.

Either way, I think the point that you and I agree on for the OP is that a rear-vented stove might be the best option he has to preserve his space and get some functional heat out of it. I just wanted to show another option as it's the one that popped to my mind.

Yes agree 100%..... any stove that the OP likes and can fit well and work well in the space.
I can envision a number of free standing stoves that could work well in that space.

 

[gthomas785]

If it were me I'd want to go the other way and convert the existing structure into a custom reburn stove... Airtight doors, secondary tube system, all that. But that's me. It would take a lot of engineering and fabrication that I'm not sure if OP is willing to do or not.