I just moved to the part of the country that uses a lot of kerosene heaters in which I am not familiar with. Instead of cutting a hole through the wall of my log cabin (in which I am renting) can I vent a Toyo heater a short distance up the existing wood fireplace chimney without any possible health or ignition issues?
vent on toyo heater
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Probably the best place you could put that Toyo is right under the chimney flue. Problem is that all of the heat from a Kero stove is convection that rises straight up. All of your heat would go up the chimney. But at least all of the gases that could kill you in your sleep would go up the chimney too.
BB- Who heated with Kero for two years (before it was four bucks a gallon) and would never even think of doing it again.
BB- Who heated with Kero for two years (before it was four bucks a gallon) and would never even think of doing it again.
BrotherBart said:
I second that Bart. I heated with it for a few years and it sucks and it's not any cheaper than natural gas. The chit doesn't grow on trees you know.
Is the wood fireplace chimney in use by... a wood fireplace? There are lots of reasons why you should not share flues like that, one of which is back drafting.
Thanks for the info folks! I have moved from the Mississippi Delta flat lands to the Smoky Mountains and not familiar with kero heating, fuel costs, etc. My cabin has a fire place and (of all things) baseboard electric heat. I'm just looking for a reasonably way to heat this winter without a really major heating bill!! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again...
Describe the cabin a bit. What size is it? How well insulated? Can you post a picture of the fireplace and provide some dimensions for the opening including depth? Sounds like a good candidate for an insert, but we need to know if that would work.
Log cabin is @ 3800' elevation, 1,200 sq. ft. and my camera is stilled packed. Obviously no insulation other than the logs. I'm quite sure it can be heated with a combination of electric heat (baseboard) and the existing fireplace, however, with my experience with elec. heat I need to win the lottery! BrotherBart somewhat scared me when speaking of kero cost, mine here is $2.52, so I was also concerned with heating cost in addition to venting properly. I would like to set the heater off to one side of the fireplace, if that is possible. The heater I am looking at is a used Toyo laser 73. Thanks again.
Living in a carbon monoxide rich environment is not healthy and can be fatal. You need to burn very clean, low sulfur 1-K kerosene in these heaters, that will be expensive now and will only get more expensive. This is false economy.
To be blunt, don't bother with the kero heater. Explore putting a wood burning insert in the fireplace. There are several options, but we need to know more about the fireplace. Your lungs and brain will thank you.
To be blunt, don't bother with the kero heater. Explore putting a wood burning insert in the fireplace. There are several options, but we need to know more about the fireplace. Your lungs and brain will thank you.
K-1 clear kerosene is available now at my local HD in one gallon cans for 3$ each. If you already own the heater have you fired it up? They stink a little but can make good heat. I own one, it was a bad purchase decision but since I have it I may as well use it to keep it alive. It starts putting out heat almost immediately until the wood heater starts putting out.
Not sure but is the Toyo a cylindrical portable convection heater or is it a furnace? If it is the standard portable heater then there is no way to "vent" it. The heat is the exhaust.
There is a place in the survival world for a heater that emits no smoke and burns a liquid fuel. I had read a lot about them on one particular website. Endoftimes or something like that.
Not sure but is the Toyo a cylindrical portable convection heater or is it a furnace? If it is the standard portable heater then there is no way to "vent" it. The heat is the exhaust.
There is a place in the survival world for a heater that emits no smoke and burns a liquid fuel. I had read a lot about them on one particular website. Endoftimes or something like that.
http://www.endtimesreport.com/kerosene.html
Check it out. I have found no better source of information on kerosene heat in the real world.
Check it out. I have found no better source of information on kerosene heat in the real world.
- Nov 18, 2005
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Since this is a rental and you probably don't want to spend much on installing an insert, could you talk to your landlord about taking the cost of the improvement out of your rent? In my renting days I did this with a clothes dryer, his broke so he let me put in a new one and subtracted it from the rent, and then it stayed there when I moved.
Yah, I've seen a lot of survivalists advocating stoves that don't emit smoke. That way no one can tell you're in there. If it comes down to that, I'm outta here.
"If it comes down to that, I’m outta here."
To where? I mean, you've got to go somewhere. I've been through enough power outages in the winter to know what people start doing when they find that they are not prepared. They abandon ship to head for a known good place and leave their food to rot and pipes to freeze. Well, what if there is nowhere to go? They will want to sit by my fire and eat my food. That's okay for a few folks but what happens when hundreds of folks are getting desperate? Woodburning is a huge step towards self reliance but just one step.
To where? I mean, you've got to go somewhere. I've been through enough power outages in the winter to know what people start doing when they find that they are not prepared. They abandon ship to head for a known good place and leave their food to rot and pipes to freeze. Well, what if there is nowhere to go? They will want to sit by my fire and eat my food. That's okay for a few folks but what happens when hundreds of folks are getting desperate? Woodburning is a huge step towards self reliance but just one step.
Highbeam said:
Slightly off topic, but the best 'anti-survivalist' book I have read is "The Postman" by David Brin. One of the points that he makes is that Individuals don't survive disasters. communities do. If you go all isolationist / survivalist, chances are you will die - either you will run out of resources, or a better armed, more desperat individual will kill you for your resources.
So don't bother hoarding food & oil - instead make sure you have level headed friends who know how to chop wood & grow crops
taxedtodeath said:
I'm not expert, but I just wanted to throw out one more perspective. I have done quite a bit of research on Toyo heaters and I believe they are some of the best in the world. I would not mess around with their unvented variety (referenced in the survival-guy website), but if we're talking about a Toyo Laser then that could be a viable option. Up here in the NorthEast Kerosene has gotten to be just about Cost prohibitive, but perhaps it is reasonably priced in your area?
The Toyo lasers are 87% efficient and known to be very reliable
http://www.alsheating.com/ToyoHeater.htm
As far as venting goes, I actually think it would need to go through the wall. If you ran it into the chimney, even in its own flue, you could have corrosion issues over time. The good news is that generally (due to the high efficiency) it is not a very big hole that you have to make. The key would be to get hold of the manual and just read through the installation options.
If it were me, I would price out kerosene versus, #2 oil versus propane in your area and then if they're all similar as far as PPG then kerosene could be a good way to go. You propably also want to look at price stability over the last 24 months compared to other fuels...and factor that in. As I understand it, Kerosene has more BTUs per gallon then Propane...but a little less than #2 Heating oil.
Just sharing my two cents since I did all this reserach for my situation a year ago.
Good luck!
Highbeam said:
No, no. I fully believe in being prepared for outages, we've experienced several of them. I'm just not worrying about Armagedon. When it comes to the worry that no smoke be seen from the chimney because someone will know you're in there and will come after you for your food, I don't want to be living here.
So I looked at the TOYO heaters in question and they are not the good ol' fashioned wick style heaters we may be thinking of. These are forced draft appliances that utilize a coaxial connection to the outside to bring in combustion air while exhausting combustion exhaust. The literature states that they must be vented horizontally. I would imagine that is because of condensation in the smallish exhaust pipe.
The Toyos can burn #1 diesel, kerosene, or jet A and since they exhaust outdoors the high sulfur red dyed bulk fuel is fine. It does not look like they burn #2 diesel or home heating oil so the thicker fuel must be a problem. Too bad since #2 fuel is much cheaper.
Oh and BG, I am not worried about some huge armagedon but I appreciate some of the concepts that those folks have developed for survival and independence. Some are very easy to implement and make good sense.
The Toyos can burn #1 diesel, kerosene, or jet A and since they exhaust outdoors the high sulfur red dyed bulk fuel is fine. It does not look like they burn #2 diesel or home heating oil so the thicker fuel must be a problem. Too bad since #2 fuel is much cheaper.
Oh and BG, I am not worried about some huge armagedon but I appreciate some of the concepts that those folks have developed for survival and independence. Some are very easy to implement and make good sense.
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