Tulikivi in action

[DBoon]

I would much rather spend 20k$ on a masonry stove than on geothermal that depends on electricity and parts that can break....

I was going to make that decision and at 50 years old thought "maybe this wood cutting, stacking, hauling, etc. isn't the best Plan A until I am 80+ years old". I went the geothermal and radiant floor route - love the radiant floor heat and if I bought electricity (have solar PV) it would cost me about $800 for heat in the winter (at 17 cents/kWh). I burn wood because I like being outside doing the work for the wood and the rhythms of loading the stove, and it also gives me a reason to get out of bed earlier on a cold winter morning.

 

[EbS-P]

I was going to make that decision and at 50 years old thought "maybe this wood cutting, stacking, hauling, etc. isn't the best Plan A until I am 80+ years old". I went the geothermal and radiant floor route - love the radiant floor heat and if I bought electricity (have solar PV) it would cost me about $800 for heat in the winter (at 17 cents/kWh). I burn wood because I like being outside doing the work for the wood and the rhythms of loading the stove, and it also gives me a reason to get out of bed earlier on a cold winter morning.

I haven’t done the math but one should with the cost of solar continuing to decrease, is there a point where electric rustics radiant is cost competitive with geothermal heat pump. I figure the the resistive heat has a 50 year working life. And zero maintenance (maybe a new thermostat/relay every 20 years.

Or at least in bedroom bath and kitchen. Then one can use air to air heatpump for the remainder.

Can one expect 20 year service life of the equipment in a geothermal system and what is annual maintenance?

 

[stoveliker]

I haven’t done the math but one should with the cost of solar continuing to decrease, is there a point where electric rustics radiant is cost competitive with geothermal heat pump. I figure the the resistive heat has a 50 year working life. And zero maintenance (maybe a new thermostat/relay every 20 years.

Or at least in bedroom bath and kitchen. Then one can use air to air heatpump for the remainder.

Can one expect 20 year service life of the equipment in a geothermal system and what is annual maintenance?

But maintenance cost for air source heat pump has to be added too.
Basically Zero for the masonry stove (minus some gaskets and your own time to clean).

 

[begreen]

But maintenance cost for air source heat pump has to be added too.
Basically Zero for the masonry stove (minus some gaskets and your own time to clean).

Outside of changing filters, I've spent $0.00 on maintenance for our now 18 yr old heat pump system. It's one of the better investments I've made.

 

[EbS-P]

Outside of changing filters, I've spent $0.00 on maintenance for our now 18 yr old heat pump system. It's one of the better investments I've made.

You don’t pay for an annual service/coil cleaning
?

 

[stoveliker]

Ever measured the fluid pressure?
It's like your tire pressure - it runs way more efficient if you ensure it's appropriate range.

 

[weee123]

You don’t pay for an annual service/coil cleaning
?

Completely unnecessary. The evap coil shouldn’t need to be cleaned unless you don’t change filters often enough. The only thing I clean on my system is the filters and the condenser coil outside which can easily be done by yourself.

 

[stoveliker]

I think it is reasonable to do the following each year.

Filter changes.
Indoor coil checked and cleaned, the condensate drain checked and cleaned. This can be done by oneself , but rarely do people do so.

In closed loop systems the loop should be checked for the proper pressure. This most folks can't do this.

 

[weee123]

Ever measured the fluid pressure?
It's like your tire pressure - it runs way more efficient if you ensure it's appropriate range.

Fluid pressure on a system? You mean refrigerant? It’s a sealed system and shouldn’t need adjustment unless there’s a leak which would obviously need to be fixed.

 

[stoveliker]

Yes. The coolant.
I have seen different when talking about multiples if 5 years.
And no system is not leaking.

 

[weee123]

I think it is reasonable to do the following each year.

Filter changes.
Indoor coil checked and cleaned, the condensate drain checked and cleaned. This can be done by oneself , but rarely do people do so.

In closed loop systems the loop should be checked for the proper pressure. This most folks can't do this.

Dump some bleach into the condensate vent every now and then to ensure the trap and holding tank don’t grow anything and you won’t have to clean it.

Edit: to preface all of this, if you are handy and able to do basic maintenance an annual checkup is a waste of money. If you don’t want to be bothered with it or aren’t comfortable doing it (which is ok) then getting an annual checkup is worth considering

 

[weee123]

Yes. The coolant.
I have seen different when talking about multiples if 5 years.
And no system is not leaking.

Do you take your car in every year to get your AC checked? Same exact system except on a smaller scale.

 

[EbS-P]

Completely unnecessary. The evap coil shouldn’t need to be cleaned unless you don’t change filters often enough. The only thing I clean on my system is the filters and the condenser coil outside which can easily be done by yourself.

May be if your ducts didn’t leak and you didn’t live in the south. I thought you were correct. And I got to buy a new blower to the tune of $1300. I will clean the evaporator my self but it’s not fun on my package system.

My local HVAC charged $130 last time. The big national chain charges $69.

 

[begreen]

You don’t pay for an annual service/coil cleaning?

Nope. This style doesn't need it.

Ever measured the fluid pressure?
It's like your tire pressure - it runs way more efficient if you ensure it's appropriate range.

That was done once at the 2nd anniversary checkup for free as part of the dealer's warranty service. The system was topped off and has not been touched since then. It still puts out 105º air at 32º outside temp.

I think part of its good service longevity is that we rarely need AC. Up until the past few years it was like once or twice a summer with some years not at all. In 2015 and in the past few years we have used the AC for as much as a week. We do run the fan alone during some wildfire smoke days too.

 

[stoveliker]

That could be. (I.e. this is the same debate about "a cat lasts for 3 years" vs "hrs used"...)

For something that one relies on for months at a time, proper maintenance (even if checks only) is - in my personal philosophy - highly preferential over running into issues when you had planned to use it.

That's my attitude in life.
And no, my car is not that critical, though I do check the temps it puts out and will have that looked at if the temps it puts out are not meeting my needs (and those needs are less stringent than for my home comfort systems).

 

[EbS-P]

For the package units where both evaporator and condenser are outside the the house the evaporator will get cold and wet and then sit there in the sun and get warm then the cycle starts over. I have been quite careful with changing filters and cleaning pre filters. We have a big poodle. They don’t shed but they are not hair and dander free.

I would challenge anyone who uses AC every day for more than two months a year and thinks their evap coil is clean if they haven’t cleaned it in 24 months to prove it to me with pictures.

I I have no rinse cleaner and cleaner that needs a rinse. I won’t use the coil brightener as those can eat a coil if left in too long.

Mini splits are worse as they really just have a lint screen!

 

[begreen]

Likely right. I'll examine the evaporator coil this spring. It has probably about a month of AC use in its lifetime and we have low humidity summers.
Though this is miles away from anything to do with a Tulikivi.