Truck tire specs - the finer points

[peakbagger]

My Unimogs use off road heavy duty truck tires. Unimogs are technically road going tractors and at best they are geared for about 60 MPH. This is good thing as the few tires built for the 335/80 R20 required size and load rating are only rated for 60 MPH. Some folks on occasion go faster but there are lot of internal parts of the tire moving around with 16,000 pounds of weight on them so they heat up. Luckily the military does use that size and are somewhat obsessive about changing nearly new tires so many of us buy used military tires. The new tires are about $600 each with used ones in the $300 range not including shipping. They have a heavy off road cleated tread that basically grinds itself off when on the road so the mileage isn't that great. The tread is directional but Mercedes says to mount the front tires in reverse of the tread direction when used on road to extend the tire life. They are definitely a handful to work with.

 

[Chimney Smoke]

As far as P or LT rated, I don't think you'll see any benefit from the LT's for what you're doing. I've been running P series for a long time on my half ton with no issues. I have thought about going with LT's for the off road toughness on logging roads that I frequent for hunting. But I've had almost no issues with the P series, only one flat tire and that was on a junk stock highway tread tire. As far as brands/looks, I've always been a fan of the BFG Goodrich AT's, had them on many trucks over the years. I'm currently running P series Toyo AT/2's and couldn't be happier. They are quiet, great traction in the dirt and snow and they're wearing very well. I'll most likely get the same tires when it's time to replace them.

 

[Ashful]

He said by far, Michelin and Bridgestone were the highest quality tires made tires during that time. This was the late 90's and early 2000's.

Correct me if my memory is wrong, but isn’t this roughly the time period when all of the Bridgestone tires were exploding on Ford Explorers, and other mid- and full-size SUV’s? Huge scandal, as I recall it.

Your father’s interest was one particular aspect of the tire manufacturing quality, specifically voiding. Definitely an issue, but also not the only issue to consider. Bridgestone clearly had a design flaw or specification error tied to that Ford Explorer fiasco, and it may have had absolutely nothing to do with their nice void-free manufacturing process.

I’m really not sure where Bridgestone or MIchelin fall in line with the rest, for commodity tires today. Like most, they probably have a wide product range offering various levels of quality and performance.

 

[Bad LP]

As far as P or LT rated, I don't think you'll see any benefit from the LT's for what you're doing. I've been running P series for a long time on my half ton with no issues. I have thought about going with LT's for the off road toughness on logging roads that I frequent for hunting. But I've had almost no issues with the P series, only one flat tire and that was on a junk stock highway tread tire. As far as brands/looks, I've always been a fan of the BFG Goodrich AT's, had them on many trucks over the years. I'm currently running P series Toyo AT/2's and couldn't be happier. They are quiet, great traction in the dirt and snow and they're wearing very well. I'll most likely get the same tires when it's time to replace them.

The worst time to be on the logging roads is after they are graded. Raises every single sharp rock to the surface.

 

[Bad LP]

I couldn't agree with you more. The Michelin's on my truck are horrible in the mud.

I warned my nephew about them and he ignored me. Crashed his brand new 2500HD into a chain link fence at the first major turn he came to in the second snow storm.

 

[sloeffle]

Correct me if my memory is wrong, but isn’t this roughly the time period when all of the Bridgestone tires were exploding on Ford Explorers, and other mid- and full-size SUV’s? Huge scandal, as I recall it.

Your father’s interest was one particular aspect of the tire manufacturing quality, specifically voiding. Definitely an issue, but also not the only issue to consider. Bridgestone clearly had a design flaw or specification error tied to that Ford Explorer fiasco, and it may have had absolutely nothing to do with their nice void-free manufacturing process.

You probably should check your facts. The tires were manufactured by Firestone and not Bridgestone.

Good luck in your search for a new set of tires on your truck.

P.S. My dad has forgot more about the tire manufacturing process than you and I will ever know. And I don't appreciate you insulting his knowledge.

 

[bholler]

You probably should check your facts before insulting someone. The tires were manufactured by (broken link removed).

Good luck in your search for a new set of tires on your truck.

P.S. My dad has forgot more about the tire manufacturing process than you and I will ever know. And I don't appreciate you insulting his knowledge.

No they were Firestone's which are made by Bridgestone. Sorry.

But my understanding of the problem was that it was an error in specification not really a manufacturing problem. But regardless both ford and Bridgestone/Firestone should have caught it.

And there was no insult at all.

 

[blades]

those were Firestone tires oem on Fords at the time. Firestone was having a lot of problems back then tire wise - belts would start sliding around under the tread, causing steerability/ stability issues and just plain toss you all over the road when you hit any kind little bump. had the problem with 99f350 spent a lot of money needlessly on front end parts steering gear box and alignments (Not even the specialized truck alignment shop caught on to it) after finally finding the problem the hard way- tire shed the casing at 70mph ( rear tire) and the other rear tire was looking a little funky. Replaced them and 2 weeks later there were bulges in the front tires. somewhere along the line something went way south.

 

[SpaceBus]

Actually, if you read the stat’s, Michelin has the highest OE loyalty rate of any brand. By that, I mean that more people who buy a car with Michelin tires as the OE brand, replace them with Michelin tires, than any other brand. I think that number is about 33% for Michelin, with the second highest being at least 10 points down, in the mid 20%’s.

But brand loyalty among tires has never made much sense, to me. Brands and models change so frequently and rapidly, and there is so much incest in the manufacturing process (one factory turning out 20 brands), that I can’t really understand why anyone would feel any loyalty to any brand, for commodity-level tires.

Get into specialized stuff (Mickey Thompson ET’s, Pirelli PZero Nero, etc.), and I can understand the brand loyalty, but not for AT type pickup truck tires.

The P-Zero, aside from a few ringer tires made for the most expensive cars in the world, is terrible. Even specialized tires have no loyalty. Racers pick the fastest tire or the brand paying the most to winners. Obviously if you are fully sponsored and the tire manufacturer gives out free tires, that's a different story. Even in race tires there is a lot of change

 

[SpaceBus]

The Firestone/Exploder debacle was primarily caused by Ford because they under inflated the tires to make the vehicles more comfortable

 

[sloeffle]

No they were Firestone's which are made by Bridgestone. Sorry.

But my understanding of the problem was that it was an error in specification not really a manufacturing problem. But regardless both ford and Bridgestone/Firestone should have caught it.

And there was no insult at all.

You are correct. I was in a hurry and didn't read the article through before I made my post.

I updated my post with the correct information.

 

[bholler]

You are correct. I was in a hurry and didn't read the article through before I made my post.

I updated my post with the correct information.

Your info still isnt really correct because bridgestone and Firestone are the same manufacturer. He was correct.

 

[sloeffle]

Your info still isnt really correct because bridgestone and Firestone are the same manufacturer. He was correct.

I didn't say Bridgestone Inc, I said Bridgestone tires. There is a big difference in quality between a Bridgestone and a Firestone tire.

 

[bholler]

I didn't say Bridgestone Inc, I said Bridgestone tires. There is a big difference in quality between a Bridgestone and a Firestone tire.

Ok but it is the same manufacturer. That is all I was saying

 

[bholler]

I didn't say Bridgestone Inc, I said Bridgestone tires. There is a big difference in quality between a Bridgestone and a Firestone tire.

There is also a wide range of qualities in Bridgestone tires. And I am pretty sure the cheap ones you are getting from Costco are not top quality.

 

[sloeffle]

There is also a wide range of qualities in Bridgestone tires. And I am pretty sure the cheap ones you are getting from Costco are not top quality.

You obviously have never been on Costco’s tire web site then. The same tires you buy from Costco are the same tires you buy from any other tire shop.

 

[SpaceBus]

You obviously have never been on Costco’s tire web site then. The same tires you buy from Costco are the same tires you buy from any other tire shop.

So they claim, yet many items from the box stores are not the same as those purchased through other venues. How else do you think they get the prices lower at the box store?

 

[Ashful]

You probably should check your facts. The tires were manufactured by Firestone and not Bridgestone.

Good luck in your search for a new set of tires on your truck.

P.S. My dad has forgot more about the tire manufacturing process than you and I will ever know. And I don't appreciate you insulting his knowledge.

Hey Sloeffle, I certainly wasn’t trying to insult your father’s knowledge, I’m really sorry if it came off that way. But I was under the impression the Firestone tires that failed on the Explorer were made by Bridgestone (isn’t Firestone a Bridgestone brand?). I was just asking the question, didn’t mean to imply anything by it, although I can understand how you read it that way.

 

[sloeffle]

So they claim, yet many items from the box stores are not the same as those purchased through other venues. How else do you think they get the prices lower at the box store?

They can buy in bigger volumes. The manufacturers cut them a bigger break since they are buying more product. That is why x is cheaper at Wal-Mat or Kroger versus your local Mom and Pop grocery store. I’ve seen this first hand at work.

 

[bholler]

They can buy in bigger volumes. The manufacturers cut them a bigger break since they are buying more product. That is why x is cheaper at Wal-Mat or Kroger versus your local Mom and Pop grocery store. I’ve seen this first hand at work.

That and they order something and tell the manufacturer what they are going to pay. The manufacturer does what they need to in order to meet that price. It happens all the time with tools and appliances. It also happens with tires. Many time the only clue is an extra number or letter in the model number.

 

[bholler]

When I worked in design at black and decker they did it with dewalt tools all the time. Sometimes they even added weights to the cheaper tools so the weight matched the higher quality ones.

 

[sloeffle]

Hey Sloeffle, I certainly wasn’t trying to insult your father’s knowledge, I’m really sorry if it came off that way. But I was under the impression the Firestone tires that failed on the Explorer were made by Bridgestone (isn’t Firestone a Bridgestone brand?). I was just asking the question, didn’t mean to imply anything by it, although I can understand how you read it that way.

I appreciate the apology. I probably took it the wrong way too. I apologize also.

You are correct, Firestone and Bridgestone merged in the late 80’s. I grew up in Akron and remember when my friends dad’s started loosing their jobs at the tire factories.

I guess I see Bridgestone and Firestone tires like Fiat and Ram. I would of used Toyota and Lexus but I know you are a Chrysler fan. Yes, they are owned by the same company but they don’t build the same products. I see Bridgestone and Firestone the same way. IMHO - Bridgestone builds a high end tire and Firestone builds a budget tire.

Sorry for railroading your thread.

 

[bholler]

I appreciate the apology. I probably took it the wrong way too. I apologize also.

You are correct, Firestone and Bridgestone merged in the late 80’s. I grew up in Akron and remember when my friends dad’s started loosing their jobs at the tire factories.

I guess I see Bridgestone and Firestone tires like Fiat and Ram. I would of used Toyota and Lexus but I know you are a Chrysler fan. Yes, they are owned by the same company but they don’t build the same products. I see Bridgestone and Firestone the same way. IMHO - Bridgestone builds a high end tire and Firestone builds a budget tire.

Sorry for railroading your thread.

I agree in many cases but there are also times you are paying for the name and getting a rebadged cheap model.

 

[Ashful]

I appreciate the apology. I probably took it the wrong way too. I apologize also.

You are correct, Firestone and Bridgestone merged in the late 80’s. I grew up in Akron and remember when my friends dad’s started loosing their jobs at the tire factories.

I guess I see Bridgestone and Firestone tires like Fiat and Ram. I would of used Toyota and Lexus but I know you are a Chrysler fan. Yes, they are owned by the same company but they don’t build the same products. I see Bridgestone and Firestone the same way. IMHO - Bridgestone builds a high end tire and Firestone builds a budget tire.

Sorry for railroading your thread.

Not railroading, I think we were already in the mud. ;-)

And I get what you're saying on the branding. Same as Acura and Honda.

BTW, I was never a Chrysler fan, quite the opposite! My impression of the company for most of my life was that they cut corners and made things cheaply to provide a lot of performance (namely horsepower) in the least expensive package. I think that was probably a fair assessment, at one time. But then when Chevy, GMC, and Ford all discontinued manual transmission in their pickups, Dodge was the only option left for those who wanted a manual trans in a 4x4 v8 pickup! I bought a Ram 1500, very reluctantly, and it ended up being the most reliable vehicle I had ever owned over twelve years. The material quality wasn't fantastic, but that's when I realized weight and material quality doesn't always translate into a reliable design, or vice versa. In the fifteen years since then, I have to admit, I've become more impressed with their higher-end offerings (namely SRT).

I guess you could say I'm an SRT fan, they just happen to come in the shape of Dodge vehicles.

 

[Bad LP]

When I worked in design at black and decker they did it with dewalt tools all the time. Sometimes they even added weights to the cheaper tools so the weight matched the higher quality ones.

Do you remember when Dewalt was the industrial version of B&D tools?