I havent read part 1 & 2 but the only time I couldnt get secondary burn in Englander 30 was when i was burning unseasoned wood. Have you tried 2X4's, pallet wood or something that is known to be bone dry to eliminate one of the variables in this equation?
Trouble with new basement woodstove -- part 3
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BrotherBart said:
But BrotherBart--I think the restriction in air is only slight, and might not be that noticeable as dead air. I wish I could capture on a video what exactly is happening. With the door closed and the air inlet fully open, the fire is subdued. But then if I just crack the door, literally by a fraction you can barely even see, the fire roars and is pulled toward the back of the firebox. Just the tiniest opening makes all the difference. So the volume of air that's being shorted to the fire is tiny, just enough to make difference.
Rockey said:
Unless my moisture meter is bad (though it calibrates fine and clearly reads wet wood at 30%, and the current wood I'm burning at 15%), or I'm losing my mind, I don't see how this wood can't be dry. I've split it again and rechecked each piece before I burned it today. It burns fast and hot, as long as the door is cracked open.
But it does make sense next time to try kiln-dried milled lumber, which I have lying around in spades. That would rule-out one more variable.
dave11 said:
That is true with any 30-NC. Or any other EPA stove for that matter. The draft has to pull the air from that inlet under the back of the stove through though channels on each side under the firebox to the front of the firebox, up the risers to the right and left of the door opening and down the glass where it hits the distribution plate and is then thrown back into the fire. Quite a long trip.
Any stove is going to burn faster with the door open. Any stove. That is why trash barrels burn so hot. No air distribution to be concerned with.
Ive worked in Test Egineering departments and you would be surprised how many electronic instruments can vary. Unless it has been recently calibrated to a primary or secondary standard I wouldn't place any stock in it given the results you have burning. The only thing that makes me second guess myself here is that you said it roars when you crack the door open. Wet wood doesnt exactly roar to life very quick as many of us have seen.
Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:
Hi Eileen. I had emailed Mike about this issue back when I built the first fire in this stove, a couple months ago. He replied with a detailed email about things to check, though they were centered on the usual issues of poor draft and negative basement pressure.
I was away for quite a while, and when I came back, I made some of the changes he recommended, then tried again, with slight improvement. I have subsequently called Englander on two occasions to discuss, but didn't gain any ground. Their suggestions were to either install an OAK, or to remove the bends from the flue. Having much more info now, I think there's good reason to expect neither of these will improve the problem.
BrotherBart said:
But if the tiny volume of air provided by cracking the door open just a hair is enough to properly feed the fire, then it follows that the air restriction must be only a tiny amount too large. So the fact that I can see air hitting the center of the two bottom splits doesn't mean there's not a partial blockage of air somewhere.
The draft for these stoves is a 2 way street. For it to come in, it must be pulled in. Any chance you can pull the cap off of this chimney to test it w/out a cap? I am wondering if the restriction is at the other end.
pen
pen
pen said:
The top of the chimney is very hard to access, due to power lines, so I was holding off fiddling with the cap, though that had been suggested before.
But for the cap to be part of the problem, then we're back talking about a possible problem of draft. But if insufficient draft is the issue, why does the fire roar and race toward the back of the firebox when I crack the door? The flue and chimney cap haven't changed. And no smoke spills into the room.
To me it suggests the opposite, that a decent draft is pulling against a firebox short of air. Then when the door is cracked open, air rushes in, the fire roars, and everything is sucked up the flue.
Is my reasoning flawed?
These stoves are designed to burn clean with even the lowest of air settings. I'd say that if you have any controllability then your primary air control is working (this really is a simply unit, it would be tough for it to be problematic w/out you having a lever problem). How about a different problem with the chimney? Is there a cleanout or a cleanout T. Is that sealed well? A leak here would introduce cool air which would kill your draft, especially w/ a cap on that slows the final exit of the exhaust gasses.
pen
pen
I personally would like to see pics of your stove from the stove to the thimble, and pics of the entire chimney.
There must be something being overlooked.
There is definately a learning curve with these stoves compared to the old units, however, w/ what you are describing it really is an anomaly. It has got to be something obvious!
pen
There must be something being overlooked.
There is definately a learning curve with these stoves compared to the old units, however, w/ what you are describing it really is an anomaly. It has got to be something obvious!
pen
I think your putting some blinders on with the draft issue. As others have said the fire will always roar with the door cracked just a hair, this is actually normal starting procedure on most stove when then chimney and stove are cold and draft is not optimal. Any bend/restriction in primary air inlet will restrict draft, when the door is open a crack, there is only one restriction to get by that door and then its straight to the flames and because its so small of a crack velocity is increased hence big flames.
First thing to check is the throw distance of the rod from full closed to full open, someone with a NC-30 should be able to confirm this.
Second would be that chimney cap, I have read many times that they get plugged and cause all sorts of issues.
Last thing to try might go against everything you think, but try running half throttle once you have established a fire for a while at full throttle and can't seem to get the temps to climb anymore. I have the little brother to that stove and I rare instances if conditions are correct that the stove will burn and burn but can't seam to get above the 300F mark (stove top). I then turn down the throttle and after a few minutes the fire starts to intensify and the temp starts climbing eventually taking off where I need to turn it down almost all the way to stabilize between 500F and 550F. I think its either related to the air velocity entering the fire box (restricting = more velocity) or maybe too much air to the secondary's causing it too keep the top of the firebox too cold before secondary combustion can start.
First thing to check is the throw distance of the rod from full closed to full open, someone with a NC-30 should be able to confirm this.
Second would be that chimney cap, I have read many times that they get plugged and cause all sorts of issues.
Last thing to try might go against everything you think, but try running half throttle once you have established a fire for a while at full throttle and can't seem to get the temps to climb anymore. I have the little brother to that stove and I rare instances if conditions are correct that the stove will burn and burn but can't seam to get above the 300F mark (stove top). I then turn down the throttle and after a few minutes the fire starts to intensify and the temp starts climbing eventually taking off where I need to turn it down almost all the way to stabilize between 500F and 550F. I think its either related to the air velocity entering the fire box (restricting = more velocity) or maybe too much air to the secondary's causing it too keep the top of the firebox too cold before secondary combustion can start.
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