Tri-fuel generators - anyone have one?

[pcampbell]

Does anyone have any experience with this 4000 watt generator from Central Maine Diesel?

http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Honda-4kw-Propane-Generator.asp?page=H04582

Would like to be able to run well pump, fridge....LED lighting and Rinnai furnace won't add but maybe 100 watts. I'll have a large pressure tank for the well, so it might be possible (although annoying) to time filling up the pressure tank while the refrigerator is not running. Fridge will also be an EnergyStar model.

The well is not in place yet, so if there's something I can do pump-wise to make this work, that might be good to think about now. Obviously I don't know how deep it will be yet.

I'd prefer a smaller generator because I could lift/move it myself. The 4000 watt one is 85 pounds while the 5500 watt one is 185 pounds. Although the bigger one has some advantages with electronic ignition (rather than pull start), it could be wired to auto-transfer, auto start for test cycle, etc.

 

[DBCOOPER]

I really like the load shedding xfer switches that these guys have.

(broken link removed to http://www.genconnexdirect.net/propane-honda-generators.htm)

 

[Village Idiot]

Shopping around for a generator that is just the right size can get pretty expensive. Especially when you start looking at the premium brands. I agonized on the issue for a while and ended up getting a Champion Dual Fuel generator at Costco. It is a 9000/7000 watt dual fuel (propane/gas) unit with remote start that will run the whole house. All for $600 on sale. The normal price is $700 and that is still a bargain.

It is not a Honda, it is not quiet like a Honda, it is big (comes with wheels), BUT, it is only $700. Food for thought.

 

[Highbeam]

Shopping around for a generator that is just the right size can get pretty expensive. Especially when you start looking at the premium brands. I agonized on the issue for a while and ended up getting a Champion Dual Fuel generator at Costco. It is a 9000/7000 watt dual fuel (propane/gas) unit with remote start that will run the whole house. All for $600 on sale. The normal price is $700 and that is still a bargain.

It is not a Honda, it is not quiet like a Honda, it is big (comes with wheels), BUT, it is only $700. Food for thought.

Champion is actually a really decent brand. Very good reputation for those that aren't willing to pay the premium for honda or Yamaha.

 

[begreen]

I've heard good things about the Champions. For general purpose work they should be fine. But there are several differences between them and premium inverter gensets. One question is how pure do you want the power to be? Sensitive electronics are often not happy with noisy AC. We have a perfectly good 4.8KW generator in standby but I stopped using it because our UPS systems refuse to function on dirty AC. They work great on the clean inverter power from the Yamaha. ham radio operators uses these units for the same reason. The second issue is power output vs fuel consumption. Champion propane gens are in the 3.5-6KW range. That is serious overkill and overkill means too much fuel consumption. When the power is out for an extended period this is important. Wasted propane is costly and a small load on a large generator shortens its life. The Champion 3.5KW genset gets 10hrs to 20# of propane. Our Yamaha will run about 3 times or more on the same amount of fuel and it is tri-fuel, the Champion is propane only. The last issue is noise. For me a quiet generator is a blessing, especially when it is droning on for hours. Honda and Yamaha make quiet generators. That's why they are so popular with campers. Yes, they are premium units, but the differences and quality is worth it to me.

 

[seige101]

The Champion 3.5KW genset gets 10hrs to 20# of propane. Our Yamaha will run about 3 times or more on the same amount of fuel and it is tri-fuel, the Champion is propane only. The last issue is noise. For me a quiet generator is a blessing, especially when it is droning on for hours. Honda and Yamaha make quiet generators. That's why they are so popular with campers. Yes, they are premium units, but the differences and quality is worth it to me.

Are you comparing a traditional champion generator on propane compared to a yamaha inverter generator on propane?

I have a Champion 73531i Inverter which is equivalent to the Honda eu-2000i or Yamaha Ef-2000is. It was $500 on sale and at that price a great equivalent compared to the Honda or the Yamaha. The specs are virtually the same in terms of power, noise and fuel economy.

Had it since the great October snow storm of 2011 and have not had an outage long enough to drag it out since. I have powered what i need to in the event of an outage and i use it around the yard.

 

[begreen]

I was comparing their propane genset. Haven't heard of a tri-fuel conversion of the Champion brick and forgot all about it quite frankly. Good to know it has served you well.

 

[Highbeam]

I was comparing their propane genset. Haven't heard of a tri-fuel conversion of the Champion brick and forgot all about it quite frankly. Good to know it has served you well.

Champion also makes an inverter genset to compete with the 3000 watt honda. For the campground crowd to run air conditioning. Honda version is like 2500$ compared to 700$ for the champion. Champion is like the Englander stove company of the generator world.

You can't compare the dirty output from some 4800 watt contractor genset to a champion. I've seen the sine wave output from the common 3500 champion on a scope and it was nearly perfect.

Yes, the Hondas or yams are superior but just slightly and in a couple of places that might not matter to most.

 

[begreen]

Similar to the reason why some folks have Englanders and others have BKs. They both do the job well.

 

[1kzwoman]

I have a Honda 2000 it is great for RV (Casita )but will not run my freezer at home. I purchased hopefully it would do both.
It will run the refrigerator and a light bulb however. I don't recommend it for none RV use.

Many large ag businesses run both pumps and generators on LP, so check with local extension office for information to guide you on sizing for your needs

 

[begreen]

Something is odd then. I run 2 refrig and a freezer on our Yamaha which is not much larger. The Honda should easily run the freezer. What happens when you try? Did you try plugging in the freezer with nothing else plugged in?

 

[1kzwoman]

Something is odd then. I run 2 refrig and a freezer on our Yamaha which is not much larger. The Honda should easily run the freezer. What happens when you try? Did you try plugging in the freezer with nothing else plugged in?

Nothing with the freezer. Yup it's all that's plugged in. Been a while since a tune up, maybe a high altitude jet. Now that I know it should run it. 18 cubic foot freezer. Thank you for reply

 

[seige101]

Try turning the eco or auto throttle mode to off while the freezer starts. Sometimes the generator can't ramp up fast enough for the startup load

 

[simple.serf]

Onan made their cck and j series engines with a tri fuel option. They are getting older now, but are probably one of the best small gensets made. I have personally seen a tri fuel with over 9k hours without a rebuild. I use a militarized diesel version of the jb to backup our place. Just another idea.

 

[maple1]

The second issue is power output vs fuel consumption. Champion propane gens are in the 3.5-6KW range. That is serious overkill and overkill means too much fuel consumption. When the power is out for an extended period this is important.

This times 1000.

I would estimate that the majority of people who have generators for backup power have one that is way too big. I used to be one until it kind of hit me one day what good is having a genator running putting out over 5000 watts when I am only using less than 1000 and it will be out of gas in 5 hours? Shiney powerful machine is not much good when the tank runs dry & the gas station isn't pumping because it has no power (if I can even get there in the storm I'm in the middle of). Having one hooked up to a big propane tank or fuel oil tank might take some of that issue way, but you're still using fuel VERY inefficiently.

 

[Highbeam]

This times 1000.

I would estimate that the majority of people who have generators for backup power have one that is way too big. I used to be one until it kind of hit me one day what good is having a genator running putting out over 5000 watts when I am only using less than 1000 and it will be out of gas in 5 hours? Shiney powerful machine is not much good when the tank runs dry & the gas station isn't pumping because it has no power (if I can even get there in the storm I'm in the middle of). Having one hooked up to a big propane tank or fuel oil tank might take some of that issue way, but you're still using fuel VERY inefficiently.

Your generator isn't putting out 5000 watts when you are only using 1000. It is only putting out 1000. You have a big, inefficient, engine screaming along at 3600 rpm that is capable of making 5000 when you only need 1000. These engines use less fuel when loaded lightly but it's not a huge drop.

My champion 3500 is only 6 HP and the 5 gallon tank will last well over 12 hours. That's not great but is totally managable using my regular supply of gas cans that I already have for lawnmower duty in the summer. To use less fuel per hour requires a very large equipment investment that is really not wise since a backup power source will only be used on occasion. If your specific situation indicates that you need to be able to run a genset for 100 hours straight then you just keep that amount of fuel on hand. Operating costs of an emergency genset are not important, running out of fuel is a failure on your part to prepare.

Your point about not oversizing the genset is a good one. I chose my 3500 watt champion because it was the smallest 240 volt genset available.

 

[begreen]

Our old genset is 220v 4.8KW. In use I shut off all 220VAC loads so it was just dealing with the 110V circuits. It worked ok, but often was working at 10-15% capacity, but it sure did like gas. A 5 gal tank would last about 6-8 hrs. During the large windstorm that knocked out the main lines coming from dams we were without power for 6 days. And so were our local gas stations and large areas around us. I ran the generator 2 hrs in the morning and 2 hrs in the evening and eked it out because we had 10 gal of gas on hand. But that's about all I will normally store. Power came on in town in 3 days so I could then get more gas, but it could have been worse.

Sh!t happens here and in a large disaster we are a tiny spec of concern next to Seattle and Tacoma. A big earthquake could leave us on our own for a couple weeks. So now I want to have a couple weeks of fuel on hand in case of a very serious emergency. Switching to a just right sized genset and having fuel options helps. Our frugal Yamaha goes 9 hrs on 1.6gal at 25% load. With the multi-fuel options of propane and gas I think we will be covered.

 

[maple1]

Your generator isn't putting out 5000 watts when you are only using 1000. It is only putting out 1000. You have a big, inefficient, engine screaming along at 3600 rpm that is capable of making 5000 when you only need 1000. These engines use less fuel when loaded lightly but it's not a huge drop.

My champion 3500 is only 6 HP and the 5 gallon tank will last well over 12 hours. That's not great but is totally managable using my regular supply of gas cans that I already have for lawnmower duty in the summer. To use less fuel per hour requires a very large equipment investment that is really not wise since a backup power source will only be used on occasion. If your specific situation indicates that you need to be able to run a genset for 100 hours straight then you just keep that amount of fuel on hand. Operating costs of an emergency genset are not important, running out of fuel is a failure on your part to prepare.

Your point about not oversizing the genset is a good one. I chose my 3500 watt champion because it was the smallest 240 volt genset available.

All very true - but keeping enough fuel on hand is very much easier if you only burn a liter per hour vs. a gallon (roughly speaking). Which was the tipping point for me. So I got a 3500w inverter genny, and sold the old 5500/8500 8hp Craftsman for half of what I paid for the new one. It will run all we need to with some power to spare, in an outage.

I've got buddies who have Champions, they like them. Do the non-inverter Champions vary engine speed with loads like an inverter does? Don't think my buddies do, but I didn't investigate fully. That was the main reason for considering an inverter when I made the switch - it wasn't just the clean power, although that was a secondary consideration.

 

[Highbeam]

All very true - but keeping enough fuel on hand is very much easier if you only burn a liter per hour vs. a gallon (roughly speaking). Which was the tipping point for me. So I got a 3500w inverter genny, and sold the old 5500/8500 8hp Craftsman for half of what I paid for the new one. It will run all we need to with some power to spare, in an outage.

I've got buddies who have Champions, they like them. Do the non-inverter Champions vary engine speed with loads like an inverter does? Don't think my buddies do, but I didn't investigate fully. That was the main reason for considering an inverter when I made the switch - it wasn't just the clean power, although that was a secondary consideration.

3500 is plenty of power for most but you can't get an inverter 3500 that makes 240 so I am stuck with the non-inverter. No they don't idle down relative to demand like inverters. That's how they make 60 HZ, it just so happens that 3600 rpm is 60 HZ so that's how they run all the time. Cleanest power from the inverter, quietest running from an inverter, and lowest fuel consumption from an inverter genset. My 3500 watt Champion cost 249$ and has been run regularly for the last 7 years and is quite good in terms of clean power, quiet, and gph. There's a big difference between a contractor 5000 watt genset and a champion 3500. About the same jump in improvement as going from a champion3500 to an inverter.

I run the champion all day long in the bed of a pickup in 90+ temps running an RV air conditioner (way over 50% of genset capacity) and the thing just sings along. Champion makes a 2800 or so watt inverter set that I threatened to buy recently. Still no 240 though.

 

[Village Idiot]

Big generators can be thirsty. That is why I have a small HF unit to run just my blower. I love that thing. It is a $90 portable outlet. For a 2-stroke it is not as noisy as you would think. I also run it at the bottom of the basement walkup so the sound is focused straight up which makes it pretty hard to hear. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/my-gas-generator-set-up.82258/page-2#post-1560211

I got to use the setup yesterday for about 30 minutes when the power went out. There was no need to run the big Champion until the outage were to drag out for hours and the fridge and freezer needed to be run to keep everything cold.

 

[woodgeek]

I have run my fridge and my 1/3 hp sump on the same '700W' HF genny (not at the same time) and never had a problem.

I turn off the icemaker.

 

[velvetfoot]

I've run my oil boiler, fridge, tv, lights, wood stove blower also on that same HF 2 stroke. Not at the same time of course. I did notice that the motors for the oil burner and insert kind of pulsated, which wasn't comforting.

 

[Treacherous]

Old thread resurrection...

This kit had good reviews on the EU2000i forums so decided to finally convert one to propane. I notice this company was recommend years back in this thread as well.

https://www.propanecarbs.com/honda-eu2000-tri-fuel-conversion.html

I usually have lots of gas at at cabin so don't plan to convert that one but home one where not as much gas will be the one for conversion. It looks pretty quick to convert. Good tip to know about starting with gas in colder weather.

 

[xman23]

That honda 2000 is on every street vendors cart in NYC. You can hardly hear the running. They look beat up, but purring away. I would have gone that route but they are pricey.

 

[DBCOOPER]

Update to an old thread. The Honda EU2000i is now the EU2200i. This is the most interesting propane conversion I have seen to date...
https://hutchmountain.com/products....-Bi-Fuel-Conversion-Kit/p/50556235/category=0

Nothing hanging from the generator.