Trailer storage tent

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Sounds similar to us. I’m in a rural community just outside Philly, which put all sorts of minimum lot size and setback requirements in, to keep the area rural. But now we also have to apply for permits for any new structure, including sheds over a certain sq ft.

I think I'd check with the neighbors, dig some footings for the verticals, and set it up right where I wanted it. Hopefully out of eyeshot of the road. Minimum investment in the event it does have to be moved. A little risk (cost and labor of footings) but "a little risk sometimes is good for a man" (Richard Proenneke).

 

[jwfirebird]

sees the whole problem at least here is the towns are allowed to make their own codes, there should be state ones everyone should have to vote on that made sense. the local yokal that got some family in politics shouldnt be able to make it what ever they feel like making it. we have that one too any one can wire a house without a licence in any area around here except the city of buffalo and rochester, all they have to do is make it look like it passes, for my neighbors barn she never even came back to look at it, she just asked for pics of a few things. my stove and chimney inspection was did you follow the man guides? i said yep and she left. but if you ask what the permits for the structure ratings need to be its way more than any of the surrounding areas, how does that make any sense? she said they are going to go up every where but havent really

 

[jwfirebird]

I think I'd check with the neighbors, dig some footings for the verticals, and set it up right where I wanted it. Hopefully out of eyeshot of the road. Minimum investment in the event it does have to be moved. A little risk (cost and labor of footings) but "a little risk sometimes is good for a man" (Richard Proenneke).

they have the power to make it a big deal if you dont ask, you will have to remove it at your cost and some areas have fines that will more likely be more than the structure. so you are saving a few hundred to possibly spend a few thousand. really permit for something like that isnt that bad, and you cant get in trouble if something happens to it or the neighbor call them for something else

 

[jwfirebird]

Yes, please! Nothing personal intended here. I've apparently unwittingly stumbled upon the new slur of mistaking a Dutch name for a scandinavian one. I certainly hope Jan isn't offended. ;-)

Plus, I think we've already convinced Ashful that the tent is a bad idea, and simultaneously driven the price up on his new preferred steel carport.

Now, if he can just convince the township code guy it's not a permanent structure...

we didnt have that option but if you do its possible you have an argument, they are held down in the case of being ground floor with just cable and auger anchors, you could really just take those up and move it if you needed

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

they have the power to make it a big deal if you dont ask, you will have to remove it at your cost and some areas have fines that will more likely be more than the structure. so you are saving a few hundred to possibly spend a few thousand. really permit for something like that isnt that bad, and you cant get in trouble if something happens to it or the neighbor call them for something else

I believe that the desire is to put it within the setback zone, the neighbors already are ok with it, but the zoning person has already expressed that no variance will be granted.

I have all this accurate, Ashful?

 

[salecker]

Now, if he can just convince the township code guy it's not a permanent structure...

Nothing is permanent,even the pyramids are falling apart and one day will just be bump in the desert.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Nothing is permanent,even the pyramids are falling apart and one day will just be bump in the desert.

Here, here! So right.

But, in the meantime, we have to deal with the "officials" whose salaries we pay with our taxes, who are empowered to fine us if they deem our structure "out of compliance".

 

[Ashful]

I believe that the desire is to put it within the setback zone, the neighbors already are ok with it, but the zoning person has already expressed that no variance will be granted.

I have all this accurate, Ashful?

You nailed it. I called the zoning and permits guy, who has previously always been pretty easy, and he basically told me it ain't gonna happen. I told him that the neighbors had no problem signing the variance, and he started going on about theoretical future neighbors and future owners of my house. Then he started going into drainage studies, and other BS to throw up barriers.

Maybe I just caught him on a bad day. In the past, I always visited, rather than calling.

 

[gfirkus]

A carport is movable. I have a 18’x21’ for a wood shed. If they want I can pull stakes and move it 6” to keep it from a permanent taxable structure. Sometimes you have to fight it at town board meetings, written policy’s must be kept.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

You nailed it. I called the zoning and permits guy, who has previously always been pretty easy, and he basically told me it ain't gonna happen. I told him that the neighbors had no problem signing the variance, and he started going on about theoretical future neighbors and future owners of my house. Then he started going into drainage studies, and other BS to throw up barriers.

Maybe I just caught him on a bad day. In the past, I always visited, rather than calling.

I generally am a coward about issues with the government, as the power relationship is completely lopsided. My first and most important principle is to keep them uninvolved whenever possible. Stay out of the system.

I think in this case, worst thing that happens if they come knocking, you tell them it's a temporary structure, if they disagree, you move it. Assuming you have a plan b location.

 

[jwfirebird]

in reality if new neighbor came and didnt want it you could move it then too

 

[Ashful]

Between my hilly lot, and maintaining curb appeal (this must be hidden out back), there is no 'plan B' location. If it can't go in my planned location, then that's really about the end of it.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Between my hilly lot, and maintaining curb appeal (this must be hidden out back), there is no 'plan B' location. If it can't go in my planned location, then that's really about the end of it.

That does add to the risk of your decision. Leaning one way or the other yet? Any chance you've looked into the township code regarding exactly how temporary structure is defined and the setback rules in that context?

 

[salecker]

Here, here! So right.

But, in the meantime, we have to deal with the "officials" whose salaries we pay with our taxes, who are empowered to fine us if they deem our structure "out of compliance".

I guess i should reword that...
Nothing is permanent except useless bureaucrats that think they are something

 

[Ashful]

I think I just need to go talk to the supervisor, and then try the zoning guy, again. I’m friendly with the supervisor (not best buddies, but we’re on casual friendly terms), and the zoning guy is normally very reasonable. Heck, when I was doing some structural work in my barn, adding a second floor, he told me we didn’t need to even bother with a permit. I think I just caught him on a bad day, or maybe the phone isn’t the best way to deal with him.

 

[jwfirebird]

could be, most people call probably, could have a disrespectful person before too

 

[jeanw]

it has gotten to the point where if you want to blink 3 times per second you need a permit. This whole permit thing is just a money collection racket besides the hand in your pocket yearly. My home- owb are banned- I live in farm country - $35 permit fee for each wood or pellet stove. I guess the days of being self sufficient are no longer politically correct.

why in the heck y'all put up with such crap. Is your town large.. I would tell that group to kiss my grits.. A permit fee what nonsense. What happens no one goes to local or county meetings. to stop such CRAP....
Little town nearby here banned having feather girls unless you had 5 acres. If it was me Id be there in a minute and get kicked out of such meetings Y'all really know its globalization 1984 creeping in. More people complain when their fav BOOB tube program goes off than care about their personal privacy and BILL OF RIGHTS.....being eroded.....

 

[VirginiaIron]

Just checked out the carports available. The arched roof ones are sharp! And you are right, pretty cheap. Now you got me thinking about gettin' one for the cars. I might be too tempted to convert it to a woodshed.

I'm thinking about getting a couple of these for just that, a wood shed. Put some sides on it, allow space for ventilation, and just throw the wood inside- no more stacking!

 

[VirginiaIron]

why in the heck y'all put up with such crap. Is your town large.. I would tell that group to kiss my grits.. A permit fee what nonsense. What happens no one goes to local or county meetings. to stop such CRAP....
Little town nearby here banned having feather girls unless you had 5 acres. If it was me Id be there in a minute and get kicked out of such meetings Y'all really know its globalization 1984 creeping in. More people complain when their fav BOOB tube program goes off than care about their personal privacy and BILL OF RIGHTS.....being eroded.....

And contributing to a form of soft tyranny. Also consider that localities are secretly or unknowingly adopting a once non-binding sustainability programs such as AGENDA 21.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_21

"....Agenda 21" (PA21). The group, ICLEI-Local Governments for Sustainability, formed in 1990; today its members come from over 1,000 cities, towns, and counties in 88 countries and is widely regarded as a paragon of Agenda 21 implementation.[7] In many North American cases, an un-elected Regional Mayor will sign on with ICLEI, thereby agreeing to the terms of Agenda 21....."

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

And contributing to a form of soft tyranny. Also consider that localities are secretly or unknowingly adopting a once non-binding sustainability programs such as AGENDA 21.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_21

"....Agenda 21" (PA21). The group, ICLEI-Local Governments for Sustainability, formed in 1990; today its members come from over 1,000 cities, towns, and counties in 88 countries and is widely regarded as a paragon of Agenda 21 implementation.[7] In many North American cases, an un-elected Regional Mayor will sign on with ICLEI, thereby agreeing to the terms of Agenda 21....."

While I don't think anyone wants to turn this lovely thread about all of the hardships that Ashful is having to endure into a rant about the impending loss of all our freedoms, i have an interesting related story. Our township was debating adopting an ordinance that would have required getting permits to cut down any trees- on your own property!

In my research, I discovered that quite a few townships around this one had adopted the ordinance. There's even a model ordinance that was being used to make it easy.

I was horrified. Luckily, after years of debate, one of the supervisors decided that it was encroaching too much on our property rights, and they settled on just requiring their "permission" to take down any "historically relevant" trees- I guess, defined by some measurement of the trunk at a prescribed distance from the ground.

While they were debating it, I made sure to get all the trees that I'd planned on harvesting within sight of the road cut down.

 

[salecker]

Everyone should realize that you don't actually own your land.
You have the right to occupy it as long as you pay your tax's and follow the rules.
A friend of mine in B.C.Canada was working out of town when the town he lived in decided they wanted part of his property.So they resurveyed it and took it while he was out of town/province working.
When he found out he was livid as most of us would be having your land taken away while you were earning a living to pay for things like tax's to various governments.
Turns out in B.C. the govt has the right to take up to 10% of your land without any public process other than footing the bill for the associated costs.
If the Govt decides they want your land they will take it.If you don't pay your taxes they will take it.If you break to many rules/laws they will take it.
If you need to sleep at night thinking you are the king of your piece of the world.... sorry.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Everyone should realize that you don't actually own your land.
You have the right to occupy it as long as you pay your tax's and follow the rules.
A friend of mine in B.C.Canada was working out of town when the town he lived in decided they wanted part of his property.So they resurveyed it and took it while he was out of town/province working.
When he found out he was livid as most of us would be having your land taken away while you were earning a living to pay for things like tax's to various governments.
Turns out in B.C. the govt has the right to take up to 10% of your land without any public process other than footing the bill for the associated costs.
If the Govt decides they want your land they will take it.If you don't pay your taxes they will take it.If you break to many rules/laws they will take it.
If you need to sleep at night thinking you are the king of your piece of the world.... sorry

Everyone should realize that you don't actually own your land.
You have the right to occupy it as long as you pay your tax's and follow the rules.
A friend of mine in B.C.Canada was working out of town when the town he lived in decided they wanted part of his property.So they resurveyed it and took it while he was out of town/province working.
When he found out he was livid as most of us would be having your land taken away while you were earning a living to pay for things like tax's to various governments.
Turns out in B.C. the govt has the right to take up to 10% of your land without any public process other than footing the bill for the associated costs.
If the Govt decides they want your land they will take it.If you don't pay your taxes they will take it.If you break to many rules/laws they will take it.
If you need to sleep at night thinking you are the king of your piece of the world.... sorry.

I guess no one should be surprised when a chatroom devoted to a self-sufficient lifestyle churns up some unrest when our liberty is being violated.

I have shared the exact sentiment many times. One of the most disappointing things I learned when I became a landowner is that we never really own the land. We just rent it from the government.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Everyone should realize that you don't actually own your land.
You have the right to occupy it as long as you pay your tax's and follow the rules.
A friend of mine in B.C.Canada was working out of town when the town he lived in decided they wanted part of his property.So they resurveyed it and took it while he was out of town/province working.
When he found out he was livid as most of us would be having your land taken away while you were earning a living to pay for things like tax's to various governments.
Turns out in B.C. the govt has the right to take up to 10% of your land without any public process other than footing the bill for the associated costs.
If the Govt decides they want your land they will take it.If you don't pay your taxes they will take it.If you break to many rules/laws they will take it.
If you need to sleep at night thinking you are the king of your piece of the world.... sorry.

I've shared the exact sentiment many times here. One of the most disappointing lessons learned as an adult and a land "owner".

I guess no one should be surprised when a chatroom devoted to a self-sufficient lifestyle churns up some unrest when our liberty is being violated.

 

[Ashful]

No issue with derailing the thread, Ed. It has played it’s original purpose.

I’m a strong believer in decentralized government. Keep it local, and vote with your feet.

Agenda 21... global initiatives? Yeah, right. What could go wrong, when folks from around the world meeting in Rio are making plans for us to follow in our vastly disparaging locales.

 

[Jags]

No issue with derailing the thread, Ed. It has played it’s original purpose.
.

And on that note, with most all angles approached, I think it best to put this one to rest.