Trading in a Hearth Mansfield for a Progress Hybrid

[Wolf]

Thanks everybody for your replies. I was really hoping the PH would be able to pick up the slack, but it sounds like it is definitely the wood that is slacking. I loaded the stove up today and was able to get it up to 450. I tried closing the damper bits at a time and had the secondaries running like crazy, but it just couldn't get any higher. I am using an IR gun to check the stove top temps so I am assuming that is fairly accurate.

Maybe I'll try the pipe damper like Todd said and see if I can trap some more of that heat inside. I have about 4' of double wall black pipe inside and roughly 25' of class A running outside the house.

The way it sounds is the Mansfield and the PH are on the same level and there wouldn't be much benefit to switching over.

So if I was to run the class A chimney through the master bedroom will that add any heat to it? Or does the insulation block all of it?

Let me make sure I have this correctly. First I have to get better wood. Then add a pipe damper. Next would be changing locations. Last would be getting a new stove or a second stove?

Does anybody recommend a bigger better stove than the Mansfield that will put out more heat or burn longer and can last through the night?

Thanks again you guys, you are saving me some big $$$!

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

Thanks everybody for your replies. I was really hoping the PH would be able to pick up the slack, but it sounds like it is definitely the wood that is slacking. I loaded the stove up today and was able to get it up to 450. I tried closing the damper bits at a time and had the secondaries running like crazy, but it just couldn't get any higher. I am using an IR gun to check the stove top temps so I am assuming that is fairly accurate.

Maybe I'll try the pipe damper like Todd said and see if I can trap some more of that heat inside. I have about 4' of double wall black pipe inside and roughly 25' of class A running outside the house.

The way it sounds is the Mansfield and the PH are on the same level and there wouldn't be much benefit to switching over.

So if I was to run the class A chimney through the master bedroom will that add any heat to it? Or does the insulation block all of it?

Let me make sure I have this correctly. First I have to get better wood. Then add a pipe damper. Next would be changing locations. Last would be getting a new stove or a second stove?

Does anybody recommend a bigger better stove than the Mansfield that will put out more heat or burn longer and can last through the night?

Thanks again you guys, you are saving me some big $$$!

Wow, 25 ft. of chimney is a lot of flue.....you definitely should look into a pipe damper (double damper)!! We sometimes have the have the same issue
with our "rock" & doing the "double damper" really makes the temp soar & stretches the burn times quite a bit.
Also, I would be hesitent to shoot for the 600+ degree recommendations of some of the users - that is at the upper end
of your stove's operating curve, and will likely crack a stone with repeated attempts.

 

[dave_376]

performance of your stove. Wood freshly cut from a living tree (green wood) contains a great deal of moisture. As you might expect, green wood burns poorly. You must season green wood before using it in your wood stove. To season green wood properly, split, stack, and allow it to air dry for a period of one year. Green wood may provide less than 2000 Btu per pound, whereas dry wood can provide up to 7000 Btu per pound.

Building a Fire for Everyday Use
1)
Open the front door and place five or six double sheets of tightly twisted newspaper in the center of the firebox. Arrange kindling in a crisscross configuration over the newspaper. Use approximately 10 pieces of kindling, 1/2" (13 mm) in diameter and 10" to 16" (254 mm to 406 mm) long.
2)
Fully open the primary air control by pushing the lever fully to the left.
3)
Light the paper under the kindling. Leave the front door slightly ajar momentarily until the kindling begins to burn and draft begins to pull.
4)
Close the door and allow the fire to burn.
5)
Once the kindling is burning, open the front door and add logs, small at first, to build the fire up. Ensure you keep the logs away from the glass in front in order for the air-wash system to work properly. Keep the front door and ash door closed while the stove is in use.
6)
Once the fire is burning well, use the primary air control to regulate the desired rate of burn. Pushing the lever to the left opens the PRIMARY AIR CONTROL for a high rate of burn or pushing it to the right for a low rate of burn. The air control does not close completely.
Note: When opening the front door to reload or re-arrange logs, it is advisable to open the door just a crack, pause for a moment then open the door completely. This procedure allows the firebox to clear of smoke before the door is open fully. In addition, reloading on a bed of hot, red coals reduces smoking time and brings fresh fuel up to a high temperature rapidly.
Burn Rate
HIGH BURN: 500-600 Degrees F. Fully load the firebox with wood on a bed of hot coals or on an actively flaming fire and fully open the primary air control. A high burn rate once or twice a day for 35 to 45 minutes to heat the stovepipe and chimney fully, will help minimize creosote accumulation.
MEDIUM HIGH BURN: 450-500 Degrees F. With the primary air control in the fully open position, push the control lever about ¼ of its travel to the right.
MEDIUM LOW BURN: 400-450 Degrees F. With the primary air control in the fully open position, push the lever about half to two thirds of the way to the right. A medium-low burn rate is the typical setting and is preferable if the stove is unattended.
LOW BURN: Less than 400 Degrees F. Push the primary air control inward all the way to the right. This closes the air shutter to its minimum opening. A low burn rate over extended periods is not advisable as it can promote the accumulation of creosote. Inspect the venting system frequently if using low burn rates consistently.


This was copied from the users manual (broken link removed to http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/assets/files/document_library/Mansfield8011Manual.pdf)

 

[Dairyman]

Thanks everybody for your replies. I was really hoping the PH would be able to pick up the slack, but it sounds like it is definitely the wood that is slacking. I loaded the stove up today and was able to get it up to 450. I tried closing the damper bits at a time and had the secondaries running like crazy, but it just couldn't get any higher. I am using an IR gun to check the stove top temps so I am assuming that is fairly accurate.

Maybe I'll try the pipe damper like Todd said and see if I can trap some more of that heat inside. I have about 4' of double wall black pipe inside and roughly 25' of class A running outside the house.

The way it sounds is the Mansfield and the PH are on the same level and there wouldn't be much benefit to switching over.

So if I was to run the class A chimney through the master bedroom will that add any heat to it? Or does the insulation block all of it?

Let me make sure I have this correctly. First I have to get better wood. Then add a pipe damper. Next would be changing locations. Last would be getting a new stove or a second stove?

Does anybody recommend a bigger better stove than the Mansfield that will put out more heat or burn longer and can last through the night?

Thanks again you guys, you are saving me some big $$$!

How did you load the stove? Did you close the air all the way or leave it cracked a hair?

I would recommend a pipe damper. My flue is only 15' and I use the damper regularly...this stove likes to send a lot of heat up the chimney.

Don't try to heat your home with the chimney that's not its purpose.

You can get by with so so wood I did my first year and I also had poor draft. A second stove isn't a bad idea with your square footage wood stoves are just space heaters after all.

Almost all the larger stoves are going to need a 8" chimney. There are several that would do the job.

Keep at it you'll get it figured out.

 

[Dairyman]

Wow, 25 ft. of chimney is a lot of flue.....you definitely should look into a pipe damper (double damper)!! We sometimes have the have the same issue
with our "rock" & doing the "double damper" really makes the temp soar & stretches the burn times quite a bit.
Also, I would be hesitent to shoot for the 600+ degree recommendations of some of the users - that is at the upper end
of your stove's operating curve, and will likely crack a stone with repeated attempts.

I agree 600+ isn't good, but there's a big difference between 350 and 550.

 

[dave_376]

if you are still looking for a new stove look at the Equinox from hearthstone...same great looks with a bigger firebox, but I think its more a wood issue than a stove issue

 

[Dairyman]

performance of your stove. Wood freshly cut from a living tree (green wood) contains a great deal of moisture. As you might expect, green wood burns poorly. You must season green wood before using it in your wood stove. To season green wood properly, split, stack, and allow it to air dry for a period of one year. Green wood may provide less than 2000 Btu per pound, whereas dry wood can provide up to 7000 Btu per pound.

Building a Fire for Everyday Use
1)
Open the front door and place five or six double sheets of tightly twisted newspaper in the center of the firebox. Arrange kindling in a crisscross configuration over the newspaper. Use approximately 10 pieces of kindling, 1/2" (13 mm) in diameter and 10" to 16" (254 mm to 406 mm) long.
2)
Fully open the primary air control by pushing the lever fully to the left.
3)
Light the paper under the kindling. Leave the front door slightly ajar momentarily until the kindling begins to burn and draft begins to pull.
4)
Close the door and allow the fire to burn.
5)
Once the kindling is burning, open the front door and add logs, small at first, to build the fire up. Ensure you keep the logs away from the glass in front in order for the air-wash system to work properly. Keep the front door and ash door closed while the stove is in use.
6)
Once the fire is burning well, use the primary air control to regulate the desired rate of burn. Pushing the lever to the left opens the PRIMARY AIR CONTROL for a high rate of burn or pushing it to the right for a low rate of burn. The air control does not close completely.
Note: When opening the front door to reload or re-arrange logs, it is advisable to open the door just a crack, pause for a moment then open the door completely. This procedure allows the firebox to clear of smoke before the door is open fully. In addition, reloading on a bed of hot, red coals reduces smoking time and brings fresh fuel up to a high temperature rapidly.
Burn Rate
HIGH BURN: 500-600 Degrees F. Fully load the firebox with wood on a bed of hot coals or on an actively flaming fire and fully open the primary air control. A high burn rate once or twice a day for 35 to 45 minutes to heat the stovepipe and chimney fully, will help minimize creosote accumulation.
MEDIUM HIGH BURN: 450-500 Degrees F. With the primary air control in the fully open position, push the control lever about ¼ of its travel to the right.
MEDIUM LOW BURN: 400-450 Degrees F. With the primary air control in the fully open position, push the lever about half to two thirds of the way to the right. A medium-low burn rate is the typical setting and is preferable if the stove is unattended.
LOW BURN: Less than 400 Degrees F. Push the primary air control inward all the way to the right. This closes the air shutter to its minimum opening. A low burn rate over extended periods is not advisable as it can promote the accumulation of creosote. Inspect the venting system frequently if using low burn rates consistently.


This was copied from the users manual (broken link removed to http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/assets/files/document_library/Mansfield8011Manual.pdf)

Hearthstones idea of how to operate this stove is a joke. I don't think I would ever get to 500° with the air wide open.

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

I agree 600+ isn't good, but there's a big difference between 350 and 550.

Yes, but it sounds like they are getting temps that are similar to what we get when all the heat is
being sent "up the flue" (too stong of a draft). Sure, you get nice clean glass & less leftover charcoal, but
you do sacrifice heat retention. This is evident by their short burn times. Bad (green) wood would not
be conducive to short burn times.

 

[Wolf]

Okay so I ordered a pipe damper and moisture meter and bought some seasoned wood off a friend of mine who also uses a wood stove. It is burning much hotter now and the secondaries kick in much faster, but I am still not seeing the long burn time I want. I am loading up at 10pm and fully closing the intake and the stove is down to very little coal around 5am with a stove top temp around 150. Hopefully the damper will help with this. Can any of you Mansfield owners give me some of their burn times that I can reference from? I know all stoves/setups are different, but I would just like to get some relative numbers to base mine off of.

 

[HotCoals]

Sir you have a big house with lots of rooms and some tall ceilings. If you did the math you would see some big cu.ft. numbers!
I like the 2 stove idea.

 

[mark cline]

Can any of you Mansfield owners give me some of their burn times that I can reference from? I know all stoves/setups are different, but I would just like to get some relative numbers to base mine off of.

I have only had my Mansfield for a week and a half , so here is what I get for burn times.10 pm, I load in 4 splits E/W , air wide open , door cracked until I see the secondaries light. Close door and allow to burn , wide open air for about 30 mins. , then start to close the air lever to about 80% closed . The secondaries are burning lazily and temp about 450F. At 6am ,I have a good size bed of coals , easy to get back up to temp using the same procedure. I have a 1200 sqft. ranch with the stove in the center of the house,

 

[Machria]

You would get MUCH longer burn times with the PH. I average 12 to 16 hours burn times, with full heat for about 10 or 12 of that. Your burn times sound about correct from what I have read on the Mansfield, but I can't comment on the amount of heat it is or isn't producing. But I can say the burn and amount of heat output from the PH will be night and day. It's a completely different firebox, using hybrid technology, with almost no heat going up the chimney. Woodstock knows what they are doing for sure, great company.

Good luck!

 

[Dairyman]

Okay so I ordered a pipe damper and moisture meter and bought some seasoned wood off a friend of mine who also uses a wood stove. It is burning much hotter now and the secondaries kick in much faster, but I am still not seeing the long burn time I want. I am loading up at 10pm and fully closing the intake and the stove is down to very little coal around 5am with a stove top temp around 150. Hopefully the damper will help with this. Can any of you Mansfield owners give me some of their burn times that I can reference from? I know all stoves/setups are different, but I would just like to get some relative numbers to base mine off of.

Last nights load went 12hrs. House temp was 70 when I loaded an hour and a half later it was 78 and climbing. Overnight low was 8 with a north wind. House was 72 when I reloaded.

Some pictures


Loaded


1and a half hours in stove and flue damper closed.


10 hours




12 hours and ready to reload.

 

[BrotherBart]

I want me a Manny dang it!

 

[Fireshoppe]

Last nights load went 12hrs. House temp was 70 when I loaded an hour and a half later it was 78 and climbing. Overnight low was 8 with a north wind. House was 72 when I reloaded.

Some pictures

View attachment 122253
Loaded

View attachment 122254
1and a half hours in stove and flue damper closed.

View attachment 122255
10 hours

View attachment 122257

View attachment 122258
12 hours and ready to reload.

That is more consistent with my experience.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Wolf, I am certainly a big fan of the Woodstock stoves but I do think you would be making a big mistake to trade those two. I also agree, your two biggest problems are location and wood with the wood being the number 1 problem. Just to give you a hint, we won't burn oak until it has dried 3 years....outdoors....after being split. Maple needs a year....after being split and stacked outdoors. Stack it in the wind and top cover it.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Last nights load went 12hrs. House temp was 70 when I loaded an hour and a half later it was 78 and climbing. Overnight low was 8 with a north wind. House was 72 when I reloaded.

Some pictures

View attachment 122253
Loaded

View attachment 122254
1and a half hours in stove and flue damper closed.

View attachment 122255
10 hours

View attachment 122257

View attachment 122258
12 hours and ready to reload.

Well.. we have not had a low of 8F yet this year, but down in the teens.. your load and temps are pretty close to what we see. I usually load my last load around 10:30pm, air down to full closed or near so, house is usually around 70-72, when the dog gets me up at 8:00 or so, I have good coals, house is usually 68-70. I rake forward to in front of the dog house, air full open, walk dog. When we get back, 20 minutes or so, I will have a forge kind of thing going on where the air is blowing from the dog house. Reload based on what the days temps are supposed to be, she is off and running. I often do not reload again until the evening. Heating 3100 sqft total, built in '96. Open floor plan, two story with full basement.

Also, we can hit 550-600 with out to much fuss. 2 year stacked cherry and maple, 3 year oak "in the pile" this year...

EDIT: also, we have 26 foot of triple wall chimney. I made some sliding panels, held to the bottom of the stove with magnets, and have my secondary air intakes about 75% closed at all times. Our instal has no place for a damper above the stove..

EDIT again.. we also load east west, rather than north south. All of the wood we are burning now was C/S/S when we still had the Homestead (21 inches).. and that honestly keeps us from really loading it up.. not enough room to turn a large split that long in this stove, everything we C/S/S'd in the last two years is shorter, (18 inches) so we will be able to go N/S next year.

 

[NH_Wood]

In my Manny, if I load full (about 10 or 11 good sized splits) at about 10 or 11pm, I'll have active secondaries for about 3 or so hours (perhaps more, but that's probably close) and then a big pile of hot coals for a long time. My stove likes to cruise at about 550 - if I check on the stove about 8 hours later, stove top is usually at about 300 and still a nice bed of coals to rake and reload the next wood. Cheers!

 

[Andy S.]

If marginal wood is what he has right now, let's try to get him to make the most of it.

As a fellow newbie with OP I think this is the best idea. I had started a thread keeping track of the performance of my insert for others to reference when they do future research and I stopped posting to it because I've learned that it is a waste to evaluate without optimal wood. In the same vein, I think it is a huge mistake to contemplate serious modifications to the set up based on poor performance with marginal wood. Want to see what your stove can do for heat output? Take some of your best splits, split them smaller and reload on a bed of coals along with an enviro log or two (depending on size) from Lowes (where I get them). The stove will send secondaries at your glass like a blow torch, you'll be marveling at the heat output and light show for hours as you incrementally shut down the air like you've read about all these show-offs with dry wood saying they do. Then repeat that process after the first load has been able to warm things up. That result is what we newbies have to look forward to when we get ahead of our wood. I think it is a mistake to get frustrated and either give up or make mods before that.

As for me? I'm a neighbor of yours, BB. Got any dry wood you want to trade for some marginal wood?

 

[Motor7]

When I burn really marginal, I throw a dry whole cedar log(8" in diameter) on first them pile the damp stuff on top. The cedar always keep the temps high to get a good burn. You could do the same thing with pine, fir, poplar, kiln dried cut offs from a construction site, etc

 

[Wolf]

Wow you guys are getting much better burn times than me, but the way it looks is that it is operator error on my part. So I took the first step and bought more seasoned wood which made a huge difference and I was able to get a much hotter burn. However, the surface temps were maxing out around 420. That is with intake fully closed and secondaries going nuts. So I just installed a pipe damper and am going to run this for a couple weeks and see if I can get this thing burning around 550-600. I am hoping to run this temperature for around 8-10 hours.

Dairyman, looks like you got your stove down to a science. I hope I can match your results.

It seems like I am getting conflicting opinions between Machria and Savage about the PH.

It sounds like you are loving the PH Machria and getting excellent burn times. You say that it is putting out full heat 10-12 hours. Does that mean surface temps 550-600 degrees?

Savage, why do you think I would be making a big mistake to switch over to a PH?

I look forward to both of your responses.

I appreciate all the input from everyone. It is really helping me take the proper steps to figure out what I need to do. I am starting with the cheaper options first of course. If I can get the heat+burn times I am looking for with my Mansfield then that would be great and my best option.

 

[Dairyman]

You might leave the air open just a hair. You should be able to hear it. I normally leave it cracked until temps fall into the single digits.

 

[begreen]

Beware of fanboy reports. The PH is not a magic miracle machine, especially when pushed for heat. From what I am reading during this cold snap it sounds like burn times and meaningful heat are similar to what most equivalently sized good steel stoves produce. And similar to what you are aiming to achieve with the Mansfield. I'm not knocking the stove. It's a good heater. So is your stove. The beauty of a cat stove is seen more during milder weather.

 

[chipsoflyin]

Beware of fanboy reports. The PH is not a magic miracle machine, especially when pushed for heat. From what I am reading during this cold snap it sounds like burn times and meaningful heat are similar to what most equivalently sized good steel stoves produce. And similar to what you are aiming to achieve with the Mansfield. I'm not knocking the stove. It's a good heater. So is your stove. The beauty of a cat stove is seen more during milder weather.

Our PH runs like a tube stove during these cold snaps. However the output is even compared to steel. The pipe temps are also lower(less heat up the chimney) due to the long smoke path

 

[begreen]

Good point, I tend to think of our stove evening out the heat and should have said castiron jacketed steel.